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Author Topic:   Forgiveness
ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 22, 2007 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
'Twas another thread which got me 'rambling'....i just wanted to share these words with You.


Forgiveness is one of the most powerful and purest spiritual teachings. I feel. It has the power to transform everything. Just thinking, writing about it I can feel something magical happening in my heart.

I don't believe that it is necessary to experience every good or bad thing we may have done to others. This feels like a false teaching to me. To do something good for someone in hope of gaining more points for oneself evades the truth....which is simply the spiritual knowledge inside...that we are all connected; to hurt another is really to hurt oneself.

I believe, that to realize fully one day (perhaps in the after life, or here...it doesn't matter where)....exactly what they have done to hurt someone....to fully empathize with this person or animal or whoever....is punishment ENOUGH.

I don't know if anyone has seen the film 'Powder'. It is a film about an albino boy, born with supernatural powers. He was raised in total isolation by his parents, until one day they died and he was taken away into the outside world, where this beautiful soul was ostracized by other teenagers at his school.

Anyway, one of his powers was having total empathy. One day, he found a wounded deer, lying, dying on the ground. He knelt down, beside the deer, witnessed by others who were with him, his heart bleeding. The huntsman, who had shot the deer came forward. Placing one hand on the deer, and the other on the huntsman, he transferred everything the deer was feeling into the huntsman. The man freaked out and was never, ever able to lay a finger on his gun ever again.

A similar thing happens at the end of the original 'The Crow' movie.


The only real evil is ignorance itself. We are only blinded by our own amnesia....which is forgetting who we truly are. Whenever we hurt other beings, we cut ourselves off more and more from the spirit. It is fear and hatred that makes people sink deeper and deeper into forgetfulness. It is this illusion that we are all separate when we are not. The most evil people in the world are living their lives with their souls asleep. To feel like this must feel so NUMB!!!
And yet, underneath it all, there is still some goodness in everyOne.

Enigma: 'In every colour, there's the light, In every stone sleeps a crystal'.

Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.
And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....

Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 22, 2007 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
WELL I'LL BE THE MOTHERLESS SON OF A GOAT

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 22, 2007 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Feeling frivolous, BlueRoamer?
Frivolry rocks. As Jim Carey said in 'Me, Myself and Irene': "Just 'cos I like to ROCK don't mean I'm made of STONE"!!!

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 22, 2007 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
WELL AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH LTT.

WHAT DO THE TREES TELL YOU?

THEY TELL ME TO BARK

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 03:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Are you making fun of me, BlueRoamer?

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 23, 2007 03:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
yes, if that's how you perceived.

Your perception is all that matters really, if you felt slighted it was real enough was it not? What do you feel my intention was?

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 03:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I dunno really.....just felt a little malicious but perhaps I'm being over-sensitive.

(Cool Angelina Jolie picture- edited for content of a swear word).

Gemini Sun, Capricorn Ascendant, Libra Moon conjunct Pluto (Moon conjunct Pluto= lunatic)

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 23, 2007 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
IT WAS PROBABLY THE CAPS THAT MADE YOU FEEL THAT WAY.

TYPING IN CAPS MAKES ME FEEL INSANE AND I LIKE IT

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
What time is it where you are, BR? Are you drunk?

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
"Just 'cos I like to ROCK don't mean I'm made of STONE"- Jim Carey

Neither are you, BlueRoamer...MADE OF STONE THAT IS...you're just pretending to be right now

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 04:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Quote: WELL AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH LTT.

WHAT DO THE TREES TELL YOU?

THEY TELL ME TO BARK

Haha. Bark. I get it (yeah, I did the first time).

But actually, to answer your question....I rather prefer to HOWL

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 05:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.myspace.com/u2

The shackles are undone
The bullets quit the gun
The heat that's in the sun
Will keep us when there's none

The rule has been disproved
The stone it has been moved
The grave is now a groove
All debts are removed, ooh

Oh can't you see what love has done?
Oh can't you see what love has done?
Oh can't you see what love has done?
What it's done to me?

Love makes strange enemies
Makes love where love may please
the soul and its striptease
Hate brought to its knees

the sky over our head
we can reach it from our bed
you let me in your heart
And out of my head, head...

Oh can't you see what love has done?
Oh can't you see what love has done?
Oh can't you see what love has done?
What it's done to me?

Oh, oh, oh, oh...
Oh, oh, oh, oh...
Please don't ever let me out of you

I've got no shame
oh no, oh no

Oh can't you see what love has done?
Oh can't you see?
Oh can't you see what love has done?
What it's doing to me?

(I know I hurt you and I made you cry
Did everything but murder but you and I
But love left a window in the skies
And to love I rhapsodize
to every broken heart
for every heart that cries
Love left a window in the skies
And to love I rhapsodize)

-U2 WINDOW IN THE SKIES

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 05:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.projectplaylist.com/musicsearch?searchfor= jeff+Buckley+new+year%27s+prayer&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=search

Jeff Buckley- New Year's Prayer

Oooooo, Fall in light, fall in light. Fall in light, fall in light
Feel no shame for what you are (x5)
As you now are in your blood
Fall in light

Feel no shame for what you are
Feel no shame for what you are
Feel it as a water fall
Fall in light, ooh
Fall in light, fall in light, Fall in light, ooh
Fall in light, fall in light, fall in light
Grow in light

Stand absolved behind your electric chair, dancing
Stand absolved behind your electric chair, dancing
Past the sound within the sound
Past the voice within the voice

Leave your office
Run past your funeral
Leave your home, car
Leave your pulpit
Join us in the streets where we
Join us in the streets where we
Donít belong, donít belong
You and the stars
Throwing light

Ooooooh
Fall, fall
Ooooooh
Fall in light, fall in light. fall in light
Oooooh
Fall in light, fall in light fall in light
Grow in light

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 23, 2007 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?"
Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God.
Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that
other people won't feel insecure around you.
We are all meant to shine, as children do.
We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.
And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give
other people permission to do the same.
As we're liberated from our own fear,
our presence automatically liberates others."

~by Marianne Williamson
in A Return to Love: Reflections On The Principles of A Course In Miracles,
p. 165, HarperCollins, 1992

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Bluemoon
Knowflake

Posts: 4456
From: Stafford, VA USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted June 23, 2007 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bluemoon     Edit/Delete Message
DON HENLEY lyrics - "The Heart Of The Matter"

I got the call today, I didn't wanna hear
But I knew that it would come
An old true friend of ours was talkin' on the phone
She said you found someone
And I thought of all the bad luck,
And the struggles we went through
And how I lost me and you lost you
What are these voices outside love's open door
Make us throw off our contentment
And beg for something more?

I'm learning to live without you now
But I miss you sometimes
The more I know, the less I understand
All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning again
I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter
But my will gets weak
And my thoughts seem to scatter
But I think it's about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore

These times are so uncertain
There's a yearning undefined
...People filled with rage
We all need a little tenderness
How can love survive in such a graceless age
The trust and self-assurance that can lead to happiness
They're the very things we kill, I guess
Pride and competition cannot fill these empty arms
And the work I put between us,
Doesn't keep me warm

I'm learning to live without you now
But I miss you, Baby
The more I know, the less I understand
All the things I thought I figured out, I have to learn again
I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter
But everything changes
And my friends seem to scatter
But I think it's about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore

There are people in your life who've come and gone
They let you down and hurt your pride
Better put it all behind you; life goes on
You keep carrin' that anger, it'll eat you inside

I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter
But my will gets weak
And my thoughts seem to scatter
But I think it's about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore

I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter
Because the flesh will get weak
And the ashes will scatter
So I'm thinkin' about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore


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Mirandee
Knowflake

Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004

posted June 23, 2007 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirandee     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.
And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....

Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again.


I very much liked what you said here, LTT. You expressed it very well.

Yes, Love and forgiveness are everything. Though I don't think that forgiveness necessarily has to happen immediately. Maybe the desire to forgive is immediate but depending on the circumstances and the hurt it might take awhile and I feel that is okay. As long as forgiveness is the final outcome it can take as long as necessary.

I don't think that healing can begin though until we do forgive and let go.

BR, I love your sense of humor but I feel that when someone is speaking from the soul and heart as LTT was doing on this thread it is not the time for flippant remarks. That is disrespectful. You can tell that LTT put much thought into this post. She deserves better than that.

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Mirandee
Knowflake

Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004

posted June 23, 2007 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirandee     Edit/Delete Message
Beautiful song, Bluemoon.

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Dulce Luna
Knowflake

Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted June 24, 2007 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Arrrghh, unfortunately forgiveness is sooo damn hard. It really is. Because its like just when you thought your had forgiven something and were over it, then the resentment and all the other bad feelings come back. That's why it takes me months and sometimes years to forgive when one hurts or betrays me really badly.

And of course, it always depends on the person's intentions; ie. did they mean well? Were they just being thoughtless? Or did they have malicious intentions? Because I think it wouldn't take me long to get over the hurt if they meant well. But if they were being really thoughtless or malicious, that's where its hard for me to forgive.

And even then, I know that forgiving doesn't always mean I have to be good friends with them again. Sometimes it just means that while I will distance myself from the person (usually for good), I don't harbor any bad feelings towards them. Because once the trust is broken, I'm not comfortable with the person again, so I have to cut myself off from them while trying to forgive them at the same time. Not easy.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 24, 2007 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
OH MIRANDEE IF ONLY YOU KNEW BABY

MY INSANITY MAKES ME UNABLE TO READ ANY POST LONGER THAN A FEW LINES

IF I DO MY HEAD WILL EXPLODE

EVERYTHING ILWL SAYS IS TRUE, FORGIVENESS IS A MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS AND IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES ON EARTH, SO I FORGIVE YOU FOR BEING IRRITATED AT MY APPARENT INSANITY AND FLIPPANCY

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 24, 2007 04:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
That's ok, BlueRoamer. I think we all need to remember not to always take ourselves too seriously, and to always keep a good sense of humor. You were here to remind me of this But, like Mirandee said, I was speaking so directly from the heart, even with my good sense of humour, I couldn't help but feel hurt slightly by your remark but I understand. I suggest you don't try to overwhelm yourself with something that exceeds your attention span. I too have a short attention span, when it comes to the years I wasted when I was younger trying to decide what I wanted to do for a career, etc, not wanting to be a slave to monontony or to feel like one of the 'Borg' So, in a way, I understand....but please try to understand others too

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 24, 2007 04:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Dulce Luna.... I know what you are saying. I have been betrayed. When I was a teenager, I forgave the girl who bullied me and became friends with her, but she assaulted me again, one evening, unexpectedly, in a group of 3, for NO other reason except pure spite- so I do understand betrayal.

I think forgiveness means that you acknowledge inside we are all equal but some commit evil acts due to their ignorance. It is natural to take some Time to forgive the most evil of acts, maybe a life-time or more. But we are all capable of REDEEMING ourselves, no matter how evil some of us may be This is the real beauty of forgiveness.

It does not mean that we should all be pacifists....though that is a complicated topic in itself....we should be strong and prevent all abusers from abusing, wherever possible....it is difficult to know whether Governments can be trusted when it comes to the question of joining an army Perhaps one day, the world will be more Pure.

Those who abuse others should face the consequences of their actions and be prevented from being able to do it again. However, we should not HATE the actual SOUL of this person.

This is what I am trying to say.

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Dulce Luna
Knowflake

Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted June 24, 2007 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Very true, LTT.

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