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T O P I C R E V I E Wcomica23What aspects in a natal chart could possibly indicate obsessive-compulsive behavior? Anyone?D for DefiantComica23,Very good question. I don't know- sorry, I can't be of help at the moment. I've so far only gathered like about a dozen charts, and that's not enough. I am trying to learn to see any psychopathology in a person's natal chart- and man, this is not easy. Just not easy for me to decode, to decipher a birth chart...I'm completely lost.I believe it is possible to read all the psychopathology, criminality or the lack of it, unusual talent or unusual complexes, tendencies of seeking spirituality, or seeking materialism...honesty, or two-faced...I wish, no, I hope- by self-studying, I can become more advanced in time, and tell any psychopathology, criminality, honesty or hypocrisy...in a rectified birth chart.I certainly look forward to a lively discussion on this thread. I hope people more advanced than I will come onto this thread, Comica23- and then I will be more than happy to join the discussion.D------------------Every night and every morn,Some to misery are born;Every morn and every night,Some are born to sweet delight.Some are born to sweet delight,Some are born to endless night.~William Blake- At best, they take your good intentions for granted;At worst, they use your good intentions against you.DianaMercury-Saturn pops to mind. Mercury because it rules the mind and saturn for the rigidity of OCD. Cleanliness, etc. Mercury-Pluto, for the obsession factor.Mercury - neptune, Delusions of germs and for rituals that involve protection. Of course, one of these alone will not produce it. Other things would have to be present. touchstone*Any more ideas on this topic? I'm rather interested myself in the subject as this would apply to one of my close friends. He has a 1st house Pluto squaring Mercury and to a lesser extent the Sun and Moon as well. Mercury/Sun/Moon all trine Saturn too. Would be good to hear any more ideas on the topic of OCD. Happy Dragoni rekon your all barking up a tree that does not exist ..first comes the person, the individual .. then the chart ..in other words .. i don't believe an astrology chart will show psychopathy for example ..or for that matter .. any other abnormal mental condition ..LaraOMG my ex husband is majorly obsessive... almost stalkerish and i just looked at his chart again.mercury conjunct saturnsaturn quincunx plutoGypseeWindI am SO glad someone brought this up, because this is a really excellent chance for me to learn from those out there who are such excellent astrologers.I can only tell my tale from the sunsign point of view because on some of these people that is the only info I know.My Aries grandma raised me, she checked the stove and the front door like 20-30 times before bed, every single night.My Virgo brother, he is schizophrenic and has O.C.D. poor thing, I adore him so much. He does the handwashing and skin picking type of stuff. Also, and this is probably more from his other disorder, he spends hours in a steam room because he feels his body is poisoned. His hair is down to his behind, he wont cut it, but he won't let it free either, he wears a doo-rag over it, and a wool cap over that. Year round. It is just awful. He is so hot and sweaty.My daughter is a Pisces. She MUST have things 'lined up' in a certain way. If you move one thing on her dresser, she knows. All labels must face front, and bottles must be in decending order. She counts steps, ceiling tiles, etc. There are other things I can't recall, her case is somewhat mild.My father in law is a hoarder. The size house he must be in just to keep every single thing he has ever owned breaks my heart. The time devoted to all that upkeep. He grew up very poor, and I often suspect that may be the root of his hoarding. When he shops he buys 2 or 3 of anything he likes.And lastly, my scorp friend, he has a weird thing with travel. If he takes one route to a place, he cannot take the same route home. If he walks into a store from the left side of the building, he must go out and walk around the right side, even if it means walking around several other buildings. He has a thing with scheduling. It has to be done in a order that he feels comfortable with. Like if we have plans to go somewhere, he has to make them and they must be executed without vary or he is just miserable.So I have proved nothing has to do with sun signs in O.C.D. I just wanted to share.Glaucus"in other words .. i don't believe an astrology chart will show psychopathy for example ..or for that matter .. any other abnormal mental condition .."I agree for reasons that I have talked about before.I have a strong distrust in psychiatry and its labels too.Raymond------------------“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1bopbop"Any more ideas on this topic? I'm rather interested myself in the subject as this would apply to one of my close friends. He has a 1st house Pluto squaring Mercury and to a lesser extent the Sun and Moon as well. Mercury/Sun/Moon all trine Saturn too."touchstone, I have all those aspects, except for the saturn trine moon. They are in different houses though, Pluto and Saturn are in my 6th. I was diagnosed with OCD when I was 10. I had to go to a child psychologist because I had a very hard time "swtiching tasks". I would zero in on one thing and work to exhaustion, and if anyone disrupted me I would freak out and cry for hours. I wasn't easily distracted like most toddlers. As I grew older it wasn't so bad but I can still work myself to death if I don't control myself. I had a very supportive family and teachers in grade school (moon in the 9th house, jupiter trine sun and sextile moon).I do believe Pluto and Saturn aspects to personal planets/points can show up as illness, depending on where they occur in the chart. Mine were in the 6th, so it showed up in how I "work". The 3rd and 9th house were involved as well, so it also showed up in how I communicate and in school. Obsessive behavior might not suggest an actual illness, but Pluto in general shows where people can take things to extremes and Saturn shows where the follow-through is. Mercury is how a person thinks (also the 3rd house), so if mercury is involved in them it can show up as a mental thing if aspects are hard. 1st is a person's identity, so whatever energy he is getting from pluto, it could be wrapped up in who he thinks he is as a person.UnmovedI have a Mercury, Saturn, Pluto stellium, and I would personally say that I exhibit obsessive-compulsive thoughts and not behaviors as this stellium is in 12th.The stellium is in Libra, Saturn is exalted in Libra so Saturn is happy here, to begin with, which lessens some of the friction. Secondly, the 12th House Ruler is Mercury(Virgo) in my natal chart - and this tells us that the Ruler of the 12th House is its own House. Mercury is a benefic and if he rules his own House it means that many trials in life, over which the native will triumph. Thirdly, the stellium occurs in my 12th. House. So, my OCD is probably dormant, or I fight it very forcefully to never allow it to flourish. My point is: look to how these Saturn/Mercury/Pluto connections are placed and you will get a better picture as well.cpn_edgar_winnergypsee - i am a bit odd like your pisces daughter. everything has to be just exactly so. i can tell instantly when someone has touched anything of mine. the counting too. but i am wierd with numbers too, counting math, always doing math in my head ...it is almost oc because when i walk through a room and move something one eigth of an inch i think, normal people don't do that. or my towels. if someone else folds my towels i take them all out and refold them so all the edges are exactly the same and organized by color. i can't be comfortable with any kind of clutter. the plus side is my house is always pretty comfortable and clean, the minus side is other people that leave stuff laying around can't find thier stuff because i instantly either throw it away or put it away. i dont have any merc squares, but i have 3 planets in virgo, i always thoght that may be it. or maybe it is one way to have order in your life when you have had a chaotic life. i think that is it too for me.Happy Dragon*** I do believe Pluto and Saturn aspects to personal planets/points can show up as illness, depending on where they occur in the chart. ***interesting post ~ bopbop ~i must admit i've never met anyone with OCD .. only seen television programmes about the condition ..i guess the only way to suss an OCD connection with astrology charts is to examine a fair few of them ..( i.e. charts of folk who have OCD ) or at least - the potential for OCD in the chart ..i would certainly agree with Pluto as a player in an 'obsession' role of some nature ..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~this is off-topic .. but ..i once saw a programme about Dystonia .. i felt so sorry for those folks effected by it .. was awful ..one woman had it so bad in her back .. i can't imagine how she coped ..~ http://www.dystonia.org.uk/about-dystonia-page7541.html ~" Dystonia is the term used to describe involuntary sustained muscle contractions that lead to abnormal movements and postures. It is a neurological disorder that affects movement, but does not lead to problems with other functions of the brain such as intellect. "GypseeWindI have to wonder about that too, Glacaus. (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)My brothers illness was the reason I studied psych in the first place, as a student. I honestly wanted to fix him and if I couldn't, I thought at least I maybe would help someone else's brother, sister, etc.After four years of school I literally was more confused than ever, and I honestly think I could of learned what I learned just by purchasing some used text books. It was very disenheartening for me.My brother started very early with his various labels. He was taken to the hospital at age 2 because he would stay awake for days and nights on end, with no sleep or naps.The labels began with Hyperactive. Then became longer as he grew.Each 'incident' would garner him a new label based on THAT particular incident, never taking to mind the whole picture!Yes, I would argue with medical doctors in emergency rooms after they fished him out of a river and mine was the only name he could recall. Sleep depravation, narcissist, borderline personality, schizoid behaviour, severe paranoia, nothing wrong with him, nutritional problem, allergies, bi-polar.Why can't they simply say "I don't know?"They sure all seem to agree on one thing though, when I ask, "will he ever be better?" They all say, "No, he will continue to decline, and eventually become a street person when he has exhausted all sources of familial and friendship support."Wow. Thanks. GypseeWindCPN;My mom is just like what you described with her house. You know when you take the cellophane off your pack of cigarettes? She literally flies across the room and throws it away, instantly. She has thrown away so much of my important stuff.I have to keep things for her because the urge to throw things out is so compelling, she says she probably would have thrown away our family photos by now, if I did not have them, she is a virgo, btw.My pisces daughters chart is missing, I'm going to have to make a new one, but I do remember her having alot of Virgo in it.I am not stereotyping on Virgos, please don't anyone think that, this topic is very serious and meaningful to me.CPN's logic sounds right to me about controlling outwardly what is internally chaotic.Isn't that what anorexia is really about?Having control over something. Food, in their case.Yet, still that amazes me so much, because when we studied anorexia, they explained how the persons visual concept of themselves is skewed, Body Dismorphic Disorder, has you actually seeing, visually what is not there!venus_aspectedbopbop i do agree with you. I have a Saturn-Pluto conjunction. And Mercury Trine Saturn in my chart. I was obsessive-compulsive when I was a kid. It was really bad. But I got over my disorder I guess by using my Moon in Aries and Venus square Jupiter aspect. I am more like so messy now. According to Pyschologists, you have to let go and embrace your fears. I realized I was capable of being messy...Mercury Trine Saturn. Yes, mentally I am very active esp. that I have a Sun-Mercury, Sun-Mars, Mercury-Mars conjunction. Goodness, I am insomniac and I have so many ideas all the time. I am not crazy but there's never a time in my life that my mind is empty. NephthysI am not sure if you guys would label me "Obsessive, Compulsive", but I have a Virgo Stellium in the 6th house (Mars, Uranus & Pluto!), and this is how I am:I am a clean freak, and a neat freak. I can't stand dirty floors, dirty kitchens, and dirty bathrooms. I can't stand dirty interiors of cars. I am always worried about germs.......wash my hands a lot.....If something is out of place or out of order it bothers me. I don't like a lot of clutter, I like items to be evenly spaced out, and in their proper place. I can't stand litter on the street. I am a stickler for proper personal hygeine - cleanliness, appearance, hair, teeth........in myself and others.I am a stickler for spelling (except I make exception for myself when chatting online as I type fast and usually in a hurry when online, and always getting interrupted by my immediate surroundings and my computer is so slow and it's too much trouble to go back and fix it) racole12I have OCD (not severe but it's enough to disrupt my life) I have Saturn (in Virgo) square Merc Rx (in Sag) CrazyAquarianInteresting, I was thinking about this recently, since I have some compulsive behaviors, nothing major. Thought it was my Scorpio Moon------------------~Believe~Nephthysjust noticed I misspelled hygiene.......BUT I was typing in a hurry, you know (at work) I crack myself up!!! LOL popcornWhat aspects in a natal chart could possibly indicate obsessive-compulsive behavior.You can find that in every chart but everyone not use it.For me aspect fromsun, moon, merk,venus, mars to plutosun, moon, merk,venus, mars to uranusSun, moon, merk, venus, mars to saturnand also other aspects fromnessus, BML, karma, nemesisvenus_aspectedI agree with Diana, I had OCD when I was a little girl and was totally paranoid about everything esp. germs. I'd place my hands and feet on the basin with water all day. I wanted to be cleansed. My mother did not know anything about OCD, so it was a very puzzling. It was only in college that I learned about it. I researched about my disorder and found out that the cure would be to be messy or expose yourself to dirty things. I did learn to be messy. With my moon and ascendant in Aries, it's so easy. I have these aspects:Mars trine PlutoNeptune Opposite MarsNeptune Opposite MercuryMars trine SaturnMercury trine SaturnMercury trine PlutoSaturn and Pluto ConjunctionMars and Mercury Conjunction**poor child. i was the laughing stock of my playmates and cousins back then. nitpicking mercury and mars in cancerbut pluto and saturn in libra Ami AnneThis thread makes me happy I am a mess ------------------Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man. You must face the dregs of Nessus to touch the love and beauty of Neptune. Mecappy1277I was reading a book about quindeciles & they say that aspect (165d) is a strong aspect of obsessive control behaviors. Here is a link I found: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007356.html
Very good question. I don't know- sorry, I can't be of help at the moment. I've so far only gathered like about a dozen charts, and that's not enough. I am trying to learn to see any psychopathology in a person's natal chart- and man, this is not easy. Just not easy for me to decode, to decipher a birth chart...I'm completely lost.
I believe it is possible to read all the psychopathology, criminality or the lack of it, unusual talent or unusual complexes, tendencies of seeking spirituality, or seeking materialism...honesty, or two-faced...I wish, no, I hope- by self-studying, I can become more advanced in time, and tell any psychopathology, criminality, honesty or hypocrisy...in a rectified birth chart.
I certainly look forward to a lively discussion on this thread. I hope people more advanced than I will come onto this thread, Comica23- and then I will be more than happy to join the discussion.
D
------------------Every night and every morn,Some to misery are born;Every morn and every night,Some are born to sweet delight.Some are born to sweet delight,Some are born to endless night.
~William Blake
- At best, they take your good intentions for granted;
At worst, they use your good intentions against you.
Mercury-Pluto, for the obsession factor.
Mercury - neptune, Delusions of germs and for rituals that involve protection.
Of course, one of these alone will not produce it. Other things would have to be present.
Would be good to hear any more ideas on the topic of OCD.
in other words .. i don't believe an astrology chart will show psychopathy for example ..or for that matter .. any other abnormal mental condition ..
mercury conjunct saturnsaturn quincunx pluto
I can only tell my tale from the sunsign point of view because on some of these people that is the only info I know.
My Aries grandma raised me, she checked the stove and the front door like 20-30 times before bed, every single night.
My Virgo brother, he is schizophrenic and has O.C.D. poor thing, I adore him so much. He does the handwashing and skin picking type of stuff. Also, and this is probably more from his other disorder, he spends hours in a steam room because he feels his body is poisoned. His hair is down to his behind, he wont cut it, but he won't let it free either, he wears a doo-rag over it, and a wool cap over that. Year round. It is just awful. He is so hot and sweaty.
My daughter is a Pisces. She MUST have things 'lined up' in a certain way. If you move one thing on her dresser, she knows. All labels must face front, and bottles must be in decending order. She counts steps, ceiling tiles, etc. There are other things I can't recall, her case is somewhat mild.
My father in law is a hoarder. The size house he must be in just to keep every single thing he has ever owned breaks my heart. The time devoted to all that upkeep. He grew up very poor, and I often suspect that may be the root of his hoarding. When he shops he buys 2 or 3 of anything he likes.
And lastly, my scorp friend, he has a weird thing with travel. If he takes one route to a place, he cannot take the same route home. If he walks into a store from the left side of the building, he must go out and walk around the right side, even if it means walking around several other buildings. He has a thing with scheduling. It has to be done in a order that he feels comfortable with. Like if we have plans to go somewhere, he has to make them and they must be executed without vary or he is just miserable.
So I have proved nothing has to do with sun signs in O.C.D. I just wanted to share.
I agree for reasons that I have talked about before.
I have a strong distrust in psychiatry and its labels too.
Raymond
------------------“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.
In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.
“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1
touchstone, I have all those aspects, except for the saturn trine moon. They are in different houses though, Pluto and Saturn are in my 6th. I was diagnosed with OCD when I was 10. I had to go to a child psychologist because I had a very hard time "swtiching tasks". I would zero in on one thing and work to exhaustion, and if anyone disrupted me I would freak out and cry for hours. I wasn't easily distracted like most toddlers. As I grew older it wasn't so bad but I can still work myself to death if I don't control myself. I had a very supportive family and teachers in grade school (moon in the 9th house, jupiter trine sun and sextile moon).
I do believe Pluto and Saturn aspects to personal planets/points can show up as illness, depending on where they occur in the chart. Mine were in the 6th, so it showed up in how I "work". The 3rd and 9th house were involved as well, so it also showed up in how I communicate and in school. Obsessive behavior might not suggest an actual illness, but Pluto in general shows where people can take things to extremes and Saturn shows where the follow-through is. Mercury is how a person thinks (also the 3rd house), so if mercury is involved in them it can show up as a mental thing if aspects are hard. 1st is a person's identity, so whatever energy he is getting from pluto, it could be wrapped up in who he thinks he is as a person.
So, my OCD is probably dormant, or I fight it very forcefully to never allow it to flourish.
My point is: look to how these Saturn/Mercury/Pluto connections are placed and you will get a better picture as well.
My brothers illness was the reason I studied psych in the first place, as a student. I honestly wanted to fix him and if I couldn't, I thought at least I maybe would help someone else's brother, sister, etc.
After four years of school I literally was more confused than ever, and I honestly think I could of learned what I learned just by purchasing some used text books.
It was very disenheartening for me.
My brother started very early with his various labels. He was taken to the hospital at age 2 because he would stay awake for days and nights on end, with no sleep or naps.The labels began with Hyperactive. Then became longer as he grew.Each 'incident' would garner him a new label based on THAT particular incident, never taking to mind the whole picture!
Yes, I would argue with medical doctors in emergency rooms after they fished him out of a river and mine was the only name he could recall. Sleep depravation, narcissist, borderline personality, schizoid behaviour, severe paranoia, nothing wrong with him, nutritional problem, allergies, bi-polar.
Why can't they simply say "I don't know?"They sure all seem to agree on one thing though, when I ask, "will he ever be better?" They all say, "No, he will continue to decline, and eventually become a street person when he has exhausted all sources of familial and friendship support."
Wow. Thanks.
My mom is just like what you described with her house. You know when you take the cellophane off your pack of cigarettes? She literally flies across the room and throws it away, instantly. She has thrown away so much of my important stuff.I have to keep things for her because the urge to throw things out is so compelling, she says she probably would have thrown away our family photos by now, if I did not have them, she is a virgo, btw.My pisces daughters chart is missing, I'm going to have to make a new one, but I do remember her having alot of Virgo in it.
I am not stereotyping on Virgos, please don't anyone think that, this topic is very serious and meaningful to me.
CPN's logic sounds right to me about controlling outwardly what is internally chaotic.
Isn't that what anorexia is really about?Having control over something. Food, in their case.Yet, still that amazes me so much, because when we studied anorexia, they explained how the persons visual concept of themselves is skewed, Body Dismorphic Disorder, has you actually seeing, visually what is not there!
Mercury Trine Saturn. Yes, mentally I am very active esp. that I have a Sun-Mercury, Sun-Mars, Mercury-Mars conjunction. Goodness, I am insomniac and I have so many ideas all the time. I am not crazy but there's never a time in my life that my mind is empty.
I am a clean freak, and a neat freak. I can't stand dirty floors, dirty kitchens, and dirty bathrooms. I can't stand dirty interiors of cars. I am always worried about germs.......wash my hands a lot.....
If something is out of place or out of order it bothers me. I don't like a lot of clutter, I like items to be evenly spaced out, and in their proper place.
I can't stand litter on the street.
I am a stickler for proper personal hygeine - cleanliness, appearance, hair, teeth........in myself and others.
I am a stickler for spelling (except I make exception for myself when chatting online as I type fast and usually in a hurry when online, and always getting interrupted by my immediate surroundings and my computer is so slow and it's too much trouble to go back and fix it)
------------------~Believe~
You can find that in every chart but everyone not use it.
For me aspect fromsun, moon, merk,venus, mars to plutosun, moon, merk,venus, mars to uranusSun, moon, merk, venus, mars to saturn
and also other aspects fromnessus, BML, karma, nemesis
I have these aspects:Mars trine PlutoNeptune Opposite MarsNeptune Opposite MercuryMars trine SaturnMercury trine SaturnMercury trine PlutoSaturn and Pluto ConjunctionMars and Mercury Conjunction
**poor child. i was the laughing stock of my playmates and cousins back then.
nitpicking mercury and mars in cancerbut pluto and saturn in libra
------------------Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man. You must face the dregs of Nessus to touch the love and beauty of Neptune. Me
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