posted June 28, 2003 03:40 PM              

Yes, I understand what you mean about him not always opening up for fear of being disempowered somehow, and I wanted to share this: I think in the book "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" (by John Gray) this is mentioned, and it seems to be a "guy" thing.

Something about men having to separate from their mothers and learn how to be a man in the grownup world (meaning independent, strong, in control, logical, etc......) whereas women being the same sex as their mothers don't face that "dilemma" and are much more comfortable with vulnerable feelings and expressing them.

So apparently (according to the book, anyway), men will get close to their woman for a time...but at some point they feel compelled to withdraw for a little while and find their "masculine center" - - I think Dr. Gray calls it "going into their cave" - - ...and then they'll return again, to get close and cozy. (?) But supposedly it's a back and forth thing for them, whereas females don't need to do that. I don't know; it's a theory.

posted June 28, 2003 04:29 PM              

ZenRia writes an excellent description of Moon in Capricorn in the Free Astrology Course. Have you read it?

I know how you mean with unstable types.

There is saying in astrology about Moon in Capricorn and Scorpio I can tell you about someday. Linda has hers about Sun in Libra.

Seems, you have made up your mind about what you're going to do. I wish you the very best

I, am taking the other road with my Moon.

Keep me posted on how things work out.

posted June 29, 2003 02:03 AM              

I posted an insight about Geminis in another thread, and thought I'd post it here, for you. One of my best pals and my mom are Gems, and I have a Gemini partner (AquaMoon/Asc, LeoVenus). Anyway...

I think it's a strange fate, being a Twin with a hidden other self. Often the brilliance makes up for the dilemma, but it must be like living with your own glass ceiling -- you can't get through to parts of yoursELF -- but all is displayed for the perceptive to see, and that must make it painful to see that truth reflected in another's eyes. They don't like being scrutinized for this reason (well, who does, really?).

posted June 30, 2003 08:25 AM              

Thanks for that....It actually makes a lot of sense, perhaps I should read the book.

I think retreating into the cave is exactly what he tends to do!

posted June 30, 2003 08:45 AM              

No I havn't read the description of Moon in Capricorn, I'll try and have a look at it today.

I look forward to you telling me the saying about the Moon in Capricorn. Yep I have made up my mind and I'm persevering with him...for the time being anyway. I don't give up easily.

I'll keep you posted with developements.

posted June 30, 2003 09:14 AM              

Do you think Gemini's are the hardest sign to fathom Of all the signs I've ever come across, this seems to be the strangest one to me!

posted July 03, 2003 11:45 AM              

So do you think it's because I'm Sagittarius then, that I can't work him out?

posted July 03, 2003 12:47 PM              

I don't think there is any black and white answer to your question. Could be numberous of reasons, I haven't studied your chart. But I do think you and him together have a special task and this seems to be one of them. It only gives you joy when you start seeing obstacles as tasks for your growth, do you know what I mean?
So next time he shows you one of his *sides* you can see it as:" I welcome you in my arms, in my life, this is one side I lack, I don't understand, what puzzles me, why do I feel this way etc.!" He gives you this.
Of course this is only one way to see it and as a very much influenced by the planet Mercury person myself I see things from a million sides every day. Only something natural to me! And yeah, being a Sag, like someone already said, gives you the opposition of Suns and this might provide you the necessary soul growth but only....only if you are open to it, naturally! PLus we are influenced by so many energies other than only our Sun signs! Hey that's what's so fun about earth!

posted July 08, 2003 09:37 AM              

Thanks for the advise....next time he's going through one of his cycles or retreats into his cave, I will try to look at it from the angle you've given me.

posted July 09, 2003 01:57 AM              

BTW, Lanny is male... so that you know.

I think that Geminis are definitely hard to fathom -- but also that trying to 'fathom' them is the wrong approach, as much as I know you're seeking to understand!

As you know, they keep getting bored then try new things. Changing their minds, when they can manage to make them up, and this makes them some of the most brilliant and fun people around. Moody when they want to be, or chatty clowns. A bored Gemini is an unhappy, brooding Gemini, and when they can become snappy or destructive. They're too smart to take kindly to some mere mortal trying to get them to go deep, if they don't want to go there, even if it's their partner.

I try to enjoy my Gem -- he's a boy and man and quicksilver elf all rolled into one, and I have no idea what he'll say or do next. I love that! I can't say I love every one of his "multiple personalities", but he never asked me to, just as I never asked him to love me 100% of every second of every day. If I ever asked that, he would laugh in my face.

Maybe the question is, what are _you_ looking for, that you're not getting from him? What specifically do you want from him -- a commitment, mood stability, etc.?

posted July 09, 2003 06:45 AM            

I hope I can be of some help!

posted July 09, 2003 01:07 PM              

If you have to redefine yourself as a person, White Witch, then it's better to look at the big picture. Sags and I have a Sag rising, have trouble looking at the big picture even though that's what I read we are here to learn. Sag is here to lead and motivate others, but if you feel like letting someone else define you as a person, and they are leading you, then that's not what the Sag personality likes.

Even if you want to like this person, maybe you just don't like him that much? How can you feel motivated when you just don't feel the passion? Even if he's the one pulling back the most mature thing to do is to be the one to let go first, or to set a boundary so that you can always come back together later. Being a Sag you may not want to hurt his feelings, but if you set a real solid boundary now, then you can always see what's going on. Geminis really need boundaries set for them.

posted July 09, 2003 05:32 PM              

The Scorpio ploy has never worked for me because I have a Scorp Moon and I'm "on to them"!

Geminis need to be handled with Kidd gloves - - behind all the chatter is a very sensitive person, and because they themselves are masters at words they very easily get hurt when spoken to bluntly...they understand the power of the spoken word.

I do agree with Lunargirl and sthenri; Geminis need boundaries set, and the defining of a relationship. Because their minds are perpetually active (LG describes it as a "spinning top" in Sun Signs, I think) they do sometimes appear to be "all over the place" which can be frustrating to others. I don't have any Capricorn planets, but I know many, many of that sign as there is a preponderance of Cappys (and Gems) in my extended family...and I know I've frustrated my share of them over the years, lol. Please, please remember - - it is unintentional. I have known a heck of a lot of Geminis...friends, family and romantic partners...and I can honestly say that not one of them, NOT ONE...has INTENTIONALLY hurt someone. That is not to say that they HAVEN'T hurt anyone; just that they didn't MEAN to, and there is a difference.

I also agree however...with what sthenri said about not having to redefine oneself just to get along with a Gemini. No one should have to do that, no matter what sign they are or what sign they're dealing with! Personally speaking, it has actually been me who was expected to do the redefining when dealing with certain signs, usually the fixed ones, except for Aquarius.

Anyway, bottom line...and this is just my own philosophy...we all are hopefully growing and learning about ourselves enough to know first who WE are...then what we want and need from a relationship with another person; also what flaws we can and cannot put up with in them. And this is where the boundaries-setting comes into play. It makes sense to me that the better we know ourselves...the more able we will be to handle the intricacies of another human being.

When you get down to it in the final analysis...if someone of ANY sign is causing you to feel bad about yourself and/or you are feeling more pain than happiness from being with a person, it is probably time to move on, because we can never change someone else. Define yourself first, set priorities, and if the person you are with is not meeting your needs or worse - - hurting you - - it's time to release them with love. Life is so short; no one knows how long they have to live. The time we spend here is full enough of big problems and lessons to learn. I believe if we are strong within ourselves and know who we are, we will have at least some peace of mind. And with strength and peace of mind, we will be much more able to cope with the challenges in life that come our way.

One more thing. I'm not sure which book, could be Sunsigns; but in one of them LG talks about dealing with Geminis with an attitude of compassion because if they confuse you, imagine how it feels to be in their skin! It's like I've read about Virgos and their tendency to be critical of others: it helps to understand that they are the MOST critical with themselves. Remembering this has helped me a lot in getting along with Virgos.

Well...I am sorry; I didn't "mean" to ramble so much (oh the trials of being a Gem) and I hope I didn't come off as sounding preachy because that is not my intention. I am sincerely trying to shed some light on us confounded Geminis and help anyone reading this to understand that we're just flawed humans like everybody else, so please be kind. Okay, I'm done.

posted July 09, 2003 08:27 PM            

And lookin' at the bottom line....

As of my final analysis.....

But one more thing....

I'm done...

Ka-put...

completely....

I really mean it this time....

Don't laugh at me....

P.S. I'm really done you know!

P.S.S. Will this letter ever END!

P.S.S.S. STOP IT, NOW!

posted July 09, 2003 10:03 PM              

White Witch, Venus in Leo is something I know a lot of about, and a sanctuary is really necessary for him. Do you doubt his love? Or do you doubt he loves you sometimes? Venus in Leo, has a lack of faith and needs reassurance, in my experience that never goes away. What you said about a rescue? That used to be me all over. Take me to the Pity Party:> Sacrificial love is honest and real but you aren't going to get anywhere with it, you have to be honest with yourself and know how you feel and he will sense it. We can sense pity you know, and unconciously make ourselves even more pitiful to get more of that love. By doing a rescue you are actually making him weaker. Venus in Leo needs others to have faith in him. Sometimes we just can't be a rock for others. Speaking as a Venus in the 5th in Aries, in love with another Venus in the 5th.

Take care of yourself,
I will leave you with a quote from Carl Jung that works for MEN as well as women.

There are two kinds of women in the world, one that finds her power in the world, and one that finds power in a man's bed, which one are you?

replace woman with man and you see how insecure a man can be?

posted July 10, 2003 12:16 AM              

I am amazed at the venom of your post. Amazed that someone could so completely misunderstand what I was trying to express. For some reason you seem to have a problem with Geminis; that is your prerogative. I think I'm the one on the top of your s**t list, not the other way around.

I have been posting in this thread to try and help The White Witch better understand her Gemini partner, nothing more. This place, Lindaland is where people come to learn; about astrology and other metaphysical subjects...and in that process they also meet and make friends with individuals of like minds. I have met some wonderful, supportive souls at this forum and I'm so glad to be here.

If you were upset by what I tried to convey from my heart, I can only apologize...not for saying what I did, but for you deciding I was out to get you (?)

Please forgive me in advance ozonefiller, because in my attempt to address your accusations this will be another long post.

Your sensitivity over my comment about fixed signs is unfounded, but since you don't know my chart you'd have no way of knowing that I myself have many fixed planets, including a T-square involving my Venus in Taurus, Pluto in Leo, and Saturn in Scorpio. I also have a Scorpio Moon as I already mentioned, and Chiron in Aquarius, so I do think I have some knowledge of these signs' "pitfalls" (your words, not mine). The only so-called "negative" I said had to do with being expected to define myself according to the requirements of said fixed signs...I was only telling the truth according to my experience.

My Father is a Taurus with a Leo Moon and Taurus Ascendant, and during my "rebellious teens" we had our share of problems. But I grew up, he mellowed out, and now we have a close, loving relationship. I was married to a Leo for 10 years and during those years as long as I played the role he expected of me, we were fine. The problem was that I wound up getting lost in the shuffle and the moment I began to "defy" him, he found someone else and we divorced. That too, was years ago, and though I was deeply hurt at the time I came to understand that I was hurting myself more by holding a grudge. Today we have a pretty amicable relationship, which is good since we deal with each other all the time because of our children.

As for Aquarians, 3 of my closest friends are of this sign. It is THIS sign that has helped me through some very painful times in recent years...by being there when I needed help the most...and by making me laugh in spite of myself and my heartbreaks. It isn't that they don't give a s**t about me; it's that they are secure enough in themselves as individuals to accept me as I am.

If I were to dislike any of the fixed signs, I would be disliking myself, because I have placements in all four of them...more than mutable and cardinal.

I have read your other posts ozonefiller, and I have read other peoples' efforts to try and help you. I am sorry you are having a bad time of it, but it isn't my fault. Everyone has problems and I'm no exception believe me. In my effort to make amends with you, please let me share this: I know the power of Scorpio. I know that power can be used in a positive or negative way. Used negatively, it will destroy oneself; used positively it can move mountains. Take care.

Twin Lady

posted July 10, 2003 08:41 AM              

So you're a Gemmy with a Cappy moon Are you hard to fathom too? Have you read ZenRia's decription on Cappy moon....it's not very nice, in fact I was a bit upset when I read it

I'm still intrigued about Aphrodite's saying about Cappy moon....I'm still waiting for her to tell me about it (hint hint)!!

posted July 10, 2003 09:03 AM              

You're right it is the wrong approach to try and fathom...It's just in my nature to try and DELVE INTO EVERYTHING!! I just can't help myself!

No I can't say I love every persoanlity that my Gem has got..I suppose I love the one that I see least of all the most...for some reason he keeps that one under wraps most of the time. Saying that though, if he was an 'open book', I probably wouldn't be all that interested in him anyway.

What am I looking for..that's a good question? Not sure I actually know..yeah I suppose commitment but then saying that...In a way, I suppose I already have that from him.

posted July 10, 2003 09:08 AM              

It's true I do love the chase, I suppose being half horse, that's understandable

Thanks for the advise, it's very helpful

posted July 10, 2003 09:19 AM              

Yes unfortunately I do have a Cappy moon

I don't think I've had to redefine myself being with him. But I have to say, being with him has made me look at myself in a different way...From my own point of view I think this has been good for me...a bit of a learning curve in a way..I suppose he's brought a side out in me that I didn't know was there.

I do like him, very much so and I definitely feel the passion...I don't feel I'm at the stage of wanting to let go..if push came to shove, I don't think he would want me to either. I think setting boundaries would be useful though...I'm gonna give that a try.

Thanks for your thoughts.

posted July 10, 2003 09:53 AM              

I know from past experience with him, he's never intented to cause hurt. If it's ever been pointed out that he has inflicted pain...he's genuinely surprised and deeply sorry.

I would never redefine myself...I've made the mistake of doing that in the past..it never got me anywhere and in the end I lost sight of who I really was...I know that's not the way forward for me. Although, I am very adaptable and I do adapt to the way people are in order to get along with them...but I don't see that as redefining myself.

It's very true what you say about learning about who we are first..I think in some way I don't really know myself all that well. I'm not really sure what makes me tick..don't know if I ever will..Different people bring out different things in me and sometimes sides to me come out that I didn't even know existed..I suppose that's what integrating with others is all about at the end of the day.

I definitely don't want to change him..I love him for all that he IS and for all that he is NOT...Saying that though, whenever I tell him that I love him, he always says he doesn't believe me...I've certainly never given him a reason not to believe that I do. I find that aspect very hard to understand..I've never doubted or questioned it when he says it to me

I'll have to read Linda's books again...been a while since I last picked one up.

Oh and by the way, I don't think for one minute that you've rambled on or preached in any way...I'm grateful for your input and the fact that you took the time to explain things to me...I really appreciate that you and everyone else here is trying to help.