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Author Topic:   Which sigh has the most criminals
calwes
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posted July 19, 2004 06:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to know which sign has the most criminals?

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lioneye68
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posted July 19, 2004 06:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm. I'd bet that there is no one single sign that has that market cornered.

However, I would be curious to know what type of criminal activity is more common among what signs.

You know, like Leos tend to arrested for stealing cars, Aries tend to get arrested for aggrevated assult, etc. (just off the top of my head)

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calwes
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posted July 19, 2004 06:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess most scopios and aries get arrested for rape

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proxieme
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posted July 19, 2004 06:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I heard somewhere that more Cappies and Aquas are serial killers than any other signs...
Could be wrong.

But that's a sun-sign thing...
I'm sure that there'd be more fruitful aspects.

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calwes
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posted July 19, 2004 06:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what sign was the guy who broke the record this year in the usa for serial killing

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pixelpixie
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posted July 19, 2004 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Calwes.. My Hubby and I are Scorpio and Aries, respectively. We only rape each other, thank you.. and it is willing, so I doin't know.. just becasue we're highly sexed, doesn't mean we don't respect the limits and bodies of others.........

Besides, rape is about control and power, not sex.

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juniperb
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posted July 19, 2004 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Holy crow Prox! Aqua sun Cappy rising here. Double whammy

The closest I`ve gotton to murder is the snake I hoed into pieces

------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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proxieme
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posted July 19, 2004 07:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL!
Noooo!
Beware Juni, everyone!

(Well, you copperheads in the crowd, anyhoo.)

To elaborate upon what I had said re: aspects:
My guess is that there'd some placements or aspects or combination thereof that'd lean a chart towards "criminal activity", but that its manifestation would be dependant both upon the signs involved and the will of the individual.

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pixelpixie
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posted July 19, 2004 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BobMarks has an interesting section on his site, about criminals... after the fact.. their charts. Something about Harmonics as well.. I am not even going there.. not yet ready to grasp.... Like flying an airplane on a car license.....

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proxieme
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posted July 19, 2004 07:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cool, pixel.
Link?

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted July 19, 2004 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cawles...once again, I am completely taken aback by your offensive proclamations based on absolutely no evidence:

Here is something that I found while searching the net (Cawles..fact finding before making statements is highly recommended)
http://marlenesniche.tripod.com/metaphysics/id41.html


"Although I do not consider my findings conclusive, a raw trend indicated that the killers' said motivations did, in fact, match their birth chart themes. As to be expected, each category of crime suggested a different sign/aspect signature. I did not find as much sign consistency as Joanne Wickenburg did in her study for serial rapists. In fact, serial rapists are a pretty diverse group and they are motivated to rape for a number of different reasons. My results only suggested that each criminal had a sign signature that supported his described behavior and motivations:

I found Aries and Virgo significant in charts of criminals considered brutal and efficient. Many were sadistic rapists with domination issues who frequently committed sodomy.

I found Cancer and Gemini significant in the charts of male criminals described as shrewd, emotionally unstable and with hatred towards women usually stemming from anger towards their mother, or some aspect of womanhood. In fact, Cancer was prominent in many criminal charts and this sign seems to yield more ingenuity than Gemini. However, when Cancer appeared in combination with Gemini it portends incomparable resourcefulness. Mother issues of all sorts were very often present in the criminal's background.


I found Leo, Pisces showing up in charts of criminals characterized as egomaniacal, narcisstic and paranoid; and frequently in the charts of rapists with bizarre fantasies who were into BDS&M.


Pisces-Aries or Pisces-Leo and Pisces-Virgo often showed up in ritualistic murder.

Scorpio was often absent by sign, but the eighth house was present in some cases.
Gemini frequently turned up in charts of criminals who pulled audacious acts, and seemed in need of attention for their exploits. Additionally, criminals who were clever but got caught by talking or bragging about their crimes had Geminian patterns.


I found Sagittarius and Capricorn prevalent in the charts of criminals considered brutal, audacious and emotionally detached.


The sign Capricorn frequently turned up in the charts of killers who had a superiority complex. It was as if they had a need to be very good killers, and they were frequently hard to catch. In fact, some were so good that they seemed to give themselves away, as if they were in need of recognition for their crimes.


I found Sagittarius-Scorpio, Libra-Scorpio, Virgo-Scorpio, Aries-Taurus, Cancer-Gemini and Gemini-Taurus, in the charts of those who had insatiable sexual desires. Many had steady lovers and wives who supported their sexual desires going so far as to appropriate victims for their spouses in an effort to please them.


Two good examples are:
The West family: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/west/main.htm


Canada's famous "Barbie and Ken Doll" serial couple has interesting sexual links: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/bernardo/bernmain.htm


All in all, matching biographies to the zodiac charts of criminals, I found that the sign emphasis was appropriate to the kinds of personalities that the authors described, and to my knowledge none of the authors are or were astrologers.

Certain planetary configurations were also present that astrologers have talked about for years. They are:

Mars-Saturn, Mars-Uranus, Mars-Pluto, Mars-Jupiter and Mars-Neptune combinations showed up regularly. Signs distribution was comparable to the crime committed. Mars-Jupiter and Mars-Neptune aspects, even trines, were very prevalent in rape.
Neptune-Mercury, Neptune-Venus and Sun-Neptune Neptune-Moon aspects are often present. I suppose this helps with the ability to lie and evade incriminating oneself; or to look "innocent" in the eyes of law enforcement; or, to be hard to pin evidence to.

Noteworthy and extreme examples of violent criminals (due to the violence and sheer number of victims):

Countess Elizabeth Bathory
Victim Count: Possibly 650 girls.
Birth: 8/7/1560. The stated birth date is generally agreed upon as accurate and since she was a noblewoman, the chances are good that this birth date is true.
Place: Her birth location is hard to pin point due to the shift in country rulership through the decades. I used the family estate at Ecsed in Transylvania; other sources say the Slovak Republic, which was then part of the Hungarian Empire. It is difficult to pinpoint a location for this one. I used these estimated coordinates: HUN: 47n27, 19e20, Hungary
Time: N/A
Crime: Probably the most notorious female serial killer and a Guinness World Record holder for the most number of murders committed by a female. She was a very wealthy noblewoman who was noted for her brutal and extreme torture of young girls possibly linked to ritualistic murder or cannibalism. Widely viewed as narcisstic and paranoid, she probably misused occult teachings and was known to have occult connections in her family.
Special Note: Professor Raymond T. McNally wrote Dracula was a Woman based on his research of her. He traveled to Bycta in Slovakia and studied the Countess's life and legend. His information is based on archival review of her court inquiry and the original trial documents. Many books are available on her. Check your sources, since she has become mythic and some of her murderous stories are considered pure folklore. One of her most famous legends is that she bathed in the blood of young girls to preserve her youth.
Noteworthy astrology aspects: Sun-Mars conjunct in Leo trine Jupiter in Aries. Venus in Leo inconjunct Pluto in Pisces. Pluto-North Node conjunct in Pisces trine Uranus in Scorpio. Mars in Leo square Uranus on Scorpio. Mercury in Virgo square Neptune in Gemini.

Quick Biography: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial8/bathory/


Mike DeBardeleben
Victim Count: Unknown specifically, since he refuses to admit how many, and guesses are in the 100s.
Birth: March 20,1940.
Place: Little Rock, Arkansas
Time: N/A
Crime: Counterfeit operations, which lead to discovery of his atrocious rapes and murder. Probably one of the most horrific sexual sadists on record. Many good authors have written about him. He used to correspond with Ted Bundy when both were incarcerated.
Noteworthy aspects: Venus and Mars in Taurus conjunct Uranus from both sides. This configuration might be square his Leo Moon (birth time not available--and when the chart was cast for a noon birth, the aspect shows up). His Mercury in Pisces sextiles his Mars-Uranus conjunction in Taurus. His Mars/Uranus conjunction trines Neptune in Virgo. Sun in the critical 29th degree of Pisces is trine his Pluto at 0 degrees Leo. His Mercury in Pisces is opposite his Neptune in Virgo.
Quick Biography: http://www.crimelibrary.com/rapists/debardeleben/


Donald Gaskins Jr. (a.k.a. "Peewee Gaskins")
Victim count: Estimated to be over 110, but he's forgotten how many specifically.
Birth: March 13, 1933
Place: Florence County, South Carolina
Time: N/A
Crime: Rape, torture and murder. The crime library has a good article on him:
Noteworthy astrological aspects: Sun in Pisces opposite Jupiter in Virgo. Venus-North Node conjunction in Pisces opposite Mars-South Node-Neptune in Virgo. Uranus in Aries almost exactly square Pluto in Cancer . Sun in Pisces trine Pluto in Cancer. Mercury in Aries inconjunct Mars-South Node-Neptune in Virgo.
Quick Biography: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/peewee_gaskins/index.htm

Considering how often Neptune, Pisces, or (when birth times were available) twelfth house configurations showed up in criminal charts, it appears that Neptune has some property that helps criminals "get away with it" or "mask their intent." In fact, my study makes me consider Neptune a very powerful planet that definitely helps criminals cover up their crimes and elude law enforcement or penalty. Alternately, in true keeping with Neptune's nature, most criminals with this planet or theme emphasized strongly "did themselves in" (Neptune is the planet of self-undoing); though they ran long and evasive killings sprees (for around 20 years) and amassed victims in the hundreds.

In the Polly Klaas' murder case, Davis has an almost exact Neptune Square to Polly's Sun. His Neptune conjuncts her 7th house Pluto in Libra, which opposes her first house Moon in Aries and squares her 11th house Capricorn Sun (using the Koch house system). Polly's seventh house is challenged with three outer planets, Saturn, Jupiter and Pluto residing there. Her Saturn and Jupiter are conjunct in the beginning of Libra and her Pluto is at 24 degrees Libra conjuncting Davis's Neptune at 23 degrees Libra.

The third, fourth, seventh and twelfth houses were prominent in victims' charts that were abducted from home:

In the Poly Klaas murder case, she was abducted from her home and Davis deposits his five-planet stellium in Cancer in her fourth house, which is afflicted in his chart by an opposition from his Mars in Capricorn (he hates women, and had a terrible mother-son relationship). Davis stellium falls in the eighth house of his birthchart. Polly only had her North Node in Cancer in her fourth house and her Venus in Capricorn opposed it from the tenth house (she was very close to her dad, had good relations with her mom, and her parents are divorced. She was at her mother's house at the time of her abduction). Four of Davis' planets conjuncted her North Node and his Mars conjuncted her tenth house Venus, which was conjunct her Midheaven.

Another important issue raised is: "What is the most and least aspected planet?" Sun, Mars and Moon were prevalent as the most aspected in criminal's charts, and Venus close to the least. Usually the most aspected planet as Sun, Moon or Mars was involved in a hard aspect, frequently to Jupiter.

In terms of aspects, it was interesting to note how many criminals, who were aware of their deviant behavior, had "oppositions" in their charts (the aspect many astrologers consider the energy that promotes awareness). Trines were noted in some criminal charts where the criminals thought they were justified.

As is needed in research, I cross-referenced and verified my data with corroborative sources to the best of my ability. I used books, newspaper articles, databanks, and quite a few criminal studies written by other astrologers who managed to access birth data. I did not interview living criminals nor see their birth certificates. Therefore, I do not have reference that can be considered primary source. However, I did use other astrologer's reports who had criminal birth data classified as AA, or A and B, using the Lois Rodden's ranking system.

As is needed in research, I cross-referenced and verified my data with corroborative sources to the best of my ability. I used books, newspaper articles, databanks, and quite a few criminal studies written by other astrologers who managed to access birth data. I did not interview living criminals nor see their birth certificates. Therefore, I do not have reference that can be considered primary source. However, I did use other astrologer's reports who had criminal birth data classified as AA, or A and B, using the Lois Rodden's ranking system.

One particularly interesting website of note that offered interesting biographies was:


http://www.crimelibrary.com/ . They have condensed biographies and each story has a nice bibliography enabling you to find additional books and resources on these famous cases. I frequently list this site and its biographies earlier. As, I stated earlier, cross-referencing all data is a must, and be prepared to find discrepancies. Also, good research should never rely on just one source. I used the crime lab in this essay simply because it's easy to reference, and is a very good starting point with plenty of additional links, and you can get to an immediate profile should you want to learn more about the cases that I presented.

The following link takes you to their massive listing of crimes by serial killers: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serialkillers.htm

And this link is on the criminal mind (numerous essays are available at this link):


http://www.crimelibrary.com/thecriminalmind.htm


You can also read the actual Wickenburg study at:

http://www.astrodatabank.com/AS/ResWickenburg.htm

The issue with the later study was that Wickenburg made a few sweeping assumptions and did not add a disclaimer. No sign on it's own is just "predisposed" to violent crimes, usually you need a cascade of events to trigger the episodes. That said, it is also true that most violent criminals cannot be rehabilitated.


------------------
"Lahn dádzaayú nahikai leh ni' nyelíí k'ehge," Goyathlay (Geronimo)

"Once we moved like the Wind"

"Arm yourselves, and be ye men of valour, and be in readiness for the conflict; for it is better for us to perish in battle than to look upon the outrage of our nation and our altar." This call and spur to the faithful servants of Truth and Justice was quoted by Churchill in his first broadcast as Prime Minister to the British people on the BBC - May 19, 1940, London.

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pixelpixie
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posted July 19, 2004 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! That's alot of info....
I tried to go to bobmarks, but it wouldn't let me.. my browser must be silly today.
I will look for it later, when I can.

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sthenri
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posted July 19, 2004 08:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A north node conjunction to pluto would indicate fame in any case. Many movie stars have this. So these are famous killers.

The Jupiter in Aries and Mars/Sun conjunction together would be amazing to see either in the negative or positive. I met one, a Capricorn and he was an example of the more negative. He used to be my friend until he told me he could never be friends with a woman who wasn't in shape. He was incredibly serious when he said it, and had a tendency to be vain.

A positive Sun/Mars conjunction I met last year, was a Virgo, she was very gung ho about social causes, so it's all in how you react.

Natasha

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juniperb
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posted July 19, 2004 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pid, you beat me to it. I going to add the Wickenburg data. Prox had me worried so I went looking

------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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astro junkie
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posted July 19, 2004 08:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. L. has his Natal Pluto Conj his NN, and THEY are Conj my Sun. And there are a few other indications of fame for him.

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fleur-de-lis
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posted July 26, 2004 12:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, serial killers are a subject in which I have much interest in addition to astrology.

There's a book called "Zodiac of Death" (you could find it on half.com) that interprets the natal charts of 50 serial killers, sorted by Sun sign.

According to this book the Mutable signs produce the most killers, especially Gemini and Sagittarius. Why, I don't know. This goes for males.

As far as females go, there are more female serial killers born under the sign of Aries than any other sign. However, females normally don't kill for bloodlust; they kill for money or for love.

When a male has Venus conjunct Mars in his chart that *could* be a sign that he associates love with violence, that they have become fused into one in his psyche. An awful lot of serial killers have this aspect in their charts, as well as Venus conjunct Pluto.

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted July 26, 2004 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh Fleur-de-lis,

That is freaky. I knew a guy, very violent Virgo that had Venus conjunct Pluto in the 12th house as well as Mars as a Singleton in Leo in his 12th house.

He also had Uranus / Pluto conjunct Ascendant (Pluto being on the border of 12th/1st house) and Uranus in the 1st house.

He was a sick freak and would just roil under the surface. I heard stories about his violence.

Needless to say, I am glad he is no longer a friend or in my life.

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fleur-de-lis
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posted July 27, 2004 01:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eek... I don't know what a Singleton is (does it mean a solitary planet in a house?) but Venus Conjunct Pluto in the 12th sounds downright scary. Well at least he's obviously violent and not secretly so like Jeffrey Dahmer was lol... that way people could choose whether to hang around him or not.

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted July 27, 2004 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Fleur,

A Singleton occurs when only one element is represented in a chart. His Mars in Leo was the only fire planet and drew tons of energy into that 12th house. I also forgot to mention that his Sun conjuncted his Ascendent, Venus, Pluto and Uranus. All those planets were with a tight 8 degree sandwich.

He was great with computers, but he was very quick to anger. I heard one story where he got angry at a friend, after they had been drinking all night, and picked the guy up and dropped him on straight on his head from a deck (about 3 feet). Just plain NUTS!!

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lalalinda
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posted July 28, 2004 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are different types of crimes depicted by the sign.
The one that sticks out in my mind is Gemini
they're always trying to make an easy buck
Embezzeling falls under Gemini too
(they don't want to soil their hands)

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calwes
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posted July 28, 2004 05:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sometime wonder about leo. Since the lion is from the cat sign and the real life cat can steal any thing. I belive human leos like to steal also . My mom once had a leo working in her boutique and she found she was missing inventory. One day she caught the leo stealing. can any one attest to this situation. I believe that geminis also cannot be trusted. They can be some of the most duplicitous sign in the planets.personally people with a lot of air sign in their chart espcially gemini , i do not trust them since they can be very back stabbing in their behaviour.

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lioneye68
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posted July 28, 2004 06:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
careful, calwes. We try to avoid making negative blanket statements about any one sign, because there are often more exceptions than there are norms when it comes to astro-stereo types.

It's like saying "all red-heads are cruel to animals", because your Uncle Jack was a red-head, and he was cruel to animals.

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amisha121877
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posted July 29, 2004 04:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whew - I got a little concerned. Have none of those aspects - not even venus conjunct pluto (alas, no fame). HEY - I have a few singletons though and a few houses with no planets other than what rules it - I have mars in aries in the 12th house and only that. HEY - can someone tell me how much being left handed or right handed affects your astrological make-up, if it does at all?

T

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sthenri
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posted July 29, 2004 04:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting that you brought up Countess Bathory Pidua, they just released a movie about her http://www.fantasiafestival.com/en/films/film_detail.php?id=1072
Be sure to click on the movie website http://www.eternalthemovie.com/

Pretty Dark,
If you are in the mood for something moodier and less intense http://www.fantasiafestival.com/en/films/film_detail.php?id=1214
Try Dark Water

Natasha
Taurus

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lioneye68
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posted July 29, 2004 06:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pidaua, where did you see The Canadian Ken & Barbie murderers' charts? I couldn't find it on that link you posted, and I would love to see them.

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