posted August 11, 2005 01:54 PM              

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But having child(ren) has opened my heart in a way never possible. When I gave birth to my daughter it literally opened up my heart chakra. So much baggage was lifted and worked through leading up to her birth and after. I suppose becuase when we become parents we want to be better people..I know I did/and still do.

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thats exactly what i have always felt , spoke and advocated .

and that is why , i have never been able to understand a gem's or aqua 's persepective .
i can understand thier craveness for freedom but they too need to understand that any relation be it a simple friendship requires compromi9ses to survive .

(but i feel i have got an answer to this , just as we water people go on extremes or at times even exxagerate our emotions , in the same way , they are exxagerating thier right to freedom.)

i have always believed , a marriage needs compromises from the partners . earlier , even unhappy marriages survived b'cos it was completly male dominated . now , the story is different .and frankly , i also believe that the new age women exxagerate thier freedom . its not wrong to be strong but its wrong if just for the sake of being known as strong , we break up a relation .

any relation needs patience .

what i understand is , what lovely went through ( after her child's birth ) is what exactly makes a relation meaning ful .
thats when you and i start believing in the relation , thats when there is a craveness to carry on the relation even if there are hiccups.
and all this brought about by a small angle in our lives .
AND THATS WHY CHILDREN ARE IMPORTANT.
FOR THE SENSE OF AN ETERNAL FULLFILLNESS .
WE ARE HUMANS AFTER ALL . NO MATTER , WHAT SIGNS ARE WE , THE BASIC FEELINGS DONT GO AND SHOULD NOT GO.

posted August 11, 2005 01:59 PM              

How old is your little girl and what sign is she?

posted August 11, 2005 02:07 PM            

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i have always believed , a marriage needs compromises from the partners . earlier , even unhappy marriages survived b'cos it was completly male dominated . now , the story is different .and frankly , i also believe that the new age women exxagerate thier freedom . its not wrong to be strong but its wrong if just for the sake of being known as strong , we break up a relation .

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posted August 11, 2005 03:39 PM              

I had sort of ummed and aahed about having children before I was 16. Then my mother told me about my father's infidelity when I was 18 months (that almost destroyed her). I never wanted children after that; I had never had much nurturing instinct, anyway.

Sometimes, as one does, I have imagined having children with men I have been crazy about...but then I realize the potentials and realities all too well.
I did briefly consider having children with Mr. Aqua during the first year of our marriage, but at the end of that year, through living with him and his mother, through various events that took place and through getting a taste of his REAL personality, knew FOR A FACT that I did not want to have children with him - for a start, he was a wimp that couldn't stand up for himself in a crisis.

I don't really know what to feel about children. I don't dislike individual children, but I can't get enthusiastic about children, I can't relate to the love a mother must feel for her child. Sometimes you just "know" what is to be your destiny and what isn't - and it has nothing to do with being more or less feminine.

I'm not emotionally barren, I just, as I've said before, have hauled myself into a place where I can't feel pain - or, at the very least, it's numbed. I obviously learned a lot from Mr. Aqua. It is so strange, because now I am coming across much more emotional men, who are more free with their feelings. So I have to learn to express emotion again. But I think the Mr. Aqua period was definetely there to teach me something. People say how much I have improved, so I suppose it can't have been all bad.

posted August 11, 2005 05:37 PM              

i'm expecting my second little one, this time a cappy girl.

cancergg, i can't say i disagree with you, but i respect and admire someone who decides children are not for them. not everyone should have them you know? also, I know some pretty dedicated aqua mommies out there...

posted August 11, 2005 09:25 PM              

And then---I become a mother. Suddenly I wanted children, maybe because I became more mature, I really don't know. - I guess my husband had something to do with it too -

And amazingly enough, motherhood has turned out to be a consuming, passionate, intense state of being. The picture of motherhood that I carried in my head (which must have had soemthing to do with my own mother who was kind of removed, emotionally) has nothing in common with the reality of it at all. It's so intense, like a love affair! Loving a child is like being in love, only better. Even though I couldn't have felt cooler to the idea of motherhood when I was in my twenties, now I couldn't feel more excited about it.

That's why I'm saying, from one Virgo to another - your feelings may be a little brittle after all you've been through, but they may just be dormant underneath the surface.

posted August 11, 2005 09:48 PM              

quote:

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And amazingly enough, motherhood has turned out to be a consuming, passionate, intense state of being. The picture of motherhood that I carried in my head (which must have had soemthing to do with my own mother who was kind of removed, emotionally) has nothing in common with the reality of it at all. It's so intense, like a love affair! Loving a child is like being in love, only better. Even though I couldn't have felt cooler to the idea of motherhood when I was in my twenties, now I couldn't feel more excited about it.

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I couldn't agree more.

posted August 12, 2005 12:00 AM              

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And amazingly enough, motherhood has turned out to be a consuming, passionate, intense state of being. The picture of motherhood that I carried in my head (which must have had soemthing to do with my own mother who was kind of removed, emotionally) has nothing in common with the reality of it at all. It's so intense, like a love affair!

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my mom is kind of like this she is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo emotionally involved in us that its horribly suffocating, i just want to get away but i cant sometimes she will even follow me to the bathroom, i understand her wanting to be with us, becoz we're all she has left she has no man and refuses to date, but its too much, im not that clingy, and im more freedom loving, and sometimes i think the mother child relationship imprisons women in a way, im not degrading it at all, its a beautiful noble thing, but so much selflessness that that selflessness consumes you, its scary, and my mom is soooooooo dependent on all of us its scary too, a little too loving i would say,

cancerrg it is a beautiful thing but it can also be an ugly thing, and i think like anything else in the world it is as many parts ugly as it is beautiful, personally my family relationships have brought me more grief than happiness, maybe being gemini my happiness lies elsewhere.

posted August 12, 2005 12:15 AM              

quote:

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and that is why , i have never been able to understand a gem's or aqua 's persepective .
i can understand thier craveness for freedom but they too need to understand that any relation be it a simple friendship requires compromi9ses to survive .

i have always believed , a marriage needs compromises from the partners . earlier , even unhappy marriages survived b'cos it was completly male dominated . now , the story is different .and frankly , i also believe that the new age women exxagerate thier freedom . its not wrong to be strong but its wrong if just for the sake of being known as strong , we break up a relation .

any relation needs patience .

AND THATS WHY CHILDREN ARE IMPORTANT.
FOR THE SENSE OF AN ETERNAL FULLFILLNESS

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1. we dont crave freedom we practice it and let other people be. America is the great nation that it is because it is founded on the basis of freedom, not oppression. Anywhere where freedom takes a 'backseat' to compromise people lose their identity to the group. When that happens people become unhappy. god created us as individuals, together, not as a big blob to be living together constantly. all groups are man-made, but man himself is god-made, individual and whole. i find more peace alone and with the people i like being with, than with groups i have to be with like family. i dont undermine the importance of it but you can't assume that the universal ideal of the family is THE moral truth. it could very much be a moral falsehood, or dependent on the persons perspective.

2. no one said that we do not compromise. as a gem i am one of the most compromising people i know, now i have become stubborn coz i see how bull-**** it is to constantly compromise. i was so compromising in my marriage that i got slapped by my husband. that will never happen again because i learned to take a stand and believe in MYSELF not my family or what other people told me. if i had listened to my family i would still be with the a-hole. and we only compromise with people who are WORTH compromising with, not every tom/dick/harry off the street. i think you are oversimplifying aquas and gems like most people do. we are human and have emotions, we love and cry also, but we do it in MODERATION. im not going to say anything more than that, i might get ANGRY.

3. we should always be strong for the sake of being strong and i dont know what you are talking about. there is no rule or law, except those created by patriarchal societies, such as the ones that you and i both come from, that says its ok for men to dominate but its not ok for women to want power. your post totally implied that men-dominated times were great becoz there was compromise and now things arent great becoz women are taking a stand. i dont know if you can see that , but re-read and u will. also i think ur comment was very chauvinistic. idont care if it is ur 'culture' . that way u shud also see our 'culture' of feminism and understand a womans place. do you know that biologically females have more developed brains than men? men have the frontal lobe developed, the animalistic one. womens abstract and logical thinking lobes are enlarged. also, women are more mature and bear the child because they have more patience. also, evolutionarily, females could have children without men but men could never without females. ALSO, genetically speaking, the Y chromosome has been proven to be a deformed X, with one of its legs cut off. these are truths not degradations. women can be stronger and more intelligent than men. we dont need to be put down. and just because you believe so, and the world has moved on, i seriously think you should READ some feminist LITERATURE and not just go off of your own UN-SUPPORTED opinion, not supported by FACT but purely TRADITION and EMOTION.

4. there is no such thing as exaggerating the right to freedom. it is the most basic right and cannot be exaggerated.

5. we do have patience, but not with people like yourselves who after hearing so many arguments still stay in the same place, as you admitted yourself, passive-aggressive, and those are your words not mine.

6. children are not important for ones personal fulfillment. that would be so selfish. give birth to children so that you can feel complete. children are beautiful in and of themselves, not as pleasure mechanisms for the adult who gave birth to them. also, aquas and geminis are not selfish, if you may have taken the time or understanding, you WOULD have seen that so many ADOPT. because they believe that the world doesnt NEED more children, it needs for the children ALREADY THERE to be TAKEN CARE OF. case in point is angelina jolie, whatever you may think of her, she goes out of her way for humanitarian efforts. i can see myself doing that, and that takes more patience and compromise, and effort, than in some cases, having your own flesh and blood child.

this is why you always enrage me cancerrg. you are always so chauvinistic and paternalistic, not to mention patronizing. now you will come back with some, i didnt mean this, sorry, why are u always jumping on my back, sort of answer. i know that the majority of people around here love you, more than do me, but i have to take a stand for what is true.

i cant believe this kind of chauvinism was even tolerated with a kind smile here. i hope randall can see this and BAN you.

SG

posted August 12, 2005 02:23 AM              

I have one child, I was, I feel meant to be his mother, but my man and me do NOT intend to have any more. Now if we were never able to have children,I am sure we would have been perfectly happy and fulfilled in our lives. I think my health would have been better!

One of the most content and balanced people I ever met (a Scorpio man) does not have kids. He has a fantastically fulfilling life - he is FREE and happy - he has lots of love in his life (and a huge fan club LOL)!! He is a wonderful teacher, which I am sure had he had children, wouldnt have had the time to pursue!!

I admire you for taking a stand and speaking out - I feel you are following your path and not being dictated to by this, at times, blinkered society. God almighty, it is hard enough for women even in this so called modern day and age, but I feel of late, at long last, we ARE getting to choose our destiny.

As for Cancerrg, I think he is stil learning, as we all are - he is young and I know he wouldnt want to hurt you or anyone, and I dont agree he should be banned, but I am delighted you are willing to be honest with him and speak out - well done!! I have met many chauvenistic males, my Dad being one, with these people we just have to stand out ground - we are women - we have to give birth and then go on to raise a child, this is for LIFE - and to some it could become so burdensome that it would bring problems.

Men will never be put in this position. Mother love is exclusive!!

SG I wish you well, I like your style, and despite the fact that I love my son with all my heart, I admire your choice............live your life girl as you WANT..........not as others expect!!!

My astrologer friend tells me that women will over the next few months and years become extremely empowered - isnt it time? I for one sometimes struggle with being a woman - I am, like you strong and opinionated and like hell will dance to anyones tune - this makes for at times disruptive relationships with parents and partners. I chose to speak out all my life and at age 46, I am just about being heard - a long road, but my spirit didnt weaken. The irony for me is that since I gave birth I have become more powerful, but that is my path and NOT necessarily anyone elses.

I send you love and again support you on your decision to speak out - WELL DONE!!!

Love to you

Sue xx

posted August 12, 2005 02:59 AM              

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i can't say i disagree with you, but i respect and admire someone who decides children are not for them. not everyone should have them you know? also, I know some pretty dedicated aqua mommies out there...

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i respect them , the best example would be sg , i have always admired her as an inspiring person .
and infact she 's the only one who can give an inferirity complex , i have always wonderd how could she be so smart at her age ? i wasn't as smart as her .

posted August 12, 2005 03:05 AM              

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this is why you always enrage me cancerrg

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my mission accomplished ,hehehehehehehe.....

(prays so that sg doesn't get more enraged)

posted August 12, 2005 03:27 AM              

yes pix i am opinionated, and i get worked up when i feel people saying things that sound in the least bit chauvinistic, but its good to know that at least you understand, i did expect you to, you have immense will power and understanding packed under that mass of wild red hair and beautiful scorp eyes. and you too sue, i know i can be so in - ur- face, u are much kinder, but im glad u get my msg and see between the lines.

no woman likes to call herself a feminist but if it werent for women that DID, we wouldnt have the right to vote, to be on this forum perhaps.

posted August 12, 2005 03:36 AM              

Yeah, I'm a Virgo rising!

SG - what you say abt. friends being more important to you than family...OMG, I can totally relate to that (Mars/Saturn in Gemini)

posted August 12, 2005 03:50 AM              

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it doesnt matter coz u said urself that god doesnt listen to ur prayers (in the mars/uranus thread).

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posted August 12, 2005 05:04 AM              

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Well said SG..............would there be any chance in the future that yoy may change your opinion on Scorpio women - do you think me and Pix controlling?
Pls be honest, am interested to hear an opinion from another strong woman xx

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hi sue how are u doing, lovely creature that you are

my opinions are always open to change becoz they are just that, opinion. however my opinion on u and pix can never change, because it is based on fact--the fact that both of you are wonderful women, that is my opinion too.

you asked controlling? yes sometimes, but that is not bad. like i said in another thread, pluto is the planet of transformation, both positive and negative, control can be directed towards others (negative) but when directed at oneself (positive) you can control yourself so well that you are like an angel to those around you. there has to come a point where one realizes that you can only control yourself, and trying to control others will backfire... i wont pretend that all scorp women have the good kind of control, there is good and bad, but you know urselves best, i think with the experience you have had you have mastered control of self and understood what freedom to others means,

with pluto in the 1st and a scorp stellium, i can understand ur perspective, so it is not a critical statement, but an honest one as you asked for. people see me as controlling, arrogant, and rude most of the time. they dont see its not the person inside me--im a communicator and i am compromising if treated right. if not then i can become all those things. that is not good , but it is scorpionic sue, and i admit that i have it. i also have the gemini tendency to go into deep spirals of depression, manic depression even.

but in the end it is my willpower that brings me here, and urs that brings you here. many people have come and gone sue, but few transform, like plutonian women.....like us.

Love
SG