posted September 27, 2005 03:30 PM            

I obviously disagree with Lauren. I believe she views it as an external influence, and has the effect an environmental influence would have.

I think most of the rest of us feel like it's some bizarrely accurate force tied to our birth that is innately entwined in our personalities. We don't see and haven't experienced any serious deviation that can't be explained through astrology. Most often when we're surprised by someone's sun sign we can find where the trait/influence we're responding to is elsewhere in their chart (often the ascendant). Environmental factors may affect the personality of a person, but that person still manifests the fundamental attributes of his or her astrological chart perhaps just in an altered way.

posted September 27, 2005 04:06 PM            

First- I don't want to make Lauren dislike me- she is one of my favourite people on this website, and is always so lovely. But I can't not say what I think when I have this irrating compulsion to speak out.
I think it's sort of ironic quite a few people keep saying 'don't catergorise' when we're on an astrology website, which is all about catergorising to a certain extent. Sure, it does not say 'you must be this', it is about prediction and is often scarily accurate. But if you can say, well I'm not like my sun sign because I also have this, this and this, then couldn't it equally be said well, I'm not like my Moon sign... etc. Why is the Sun sign so easily disregarded and placed below other planetry aspects when it's meant to be the part that colours our personality the strongest? I don't hear anyone complaining about their Mercury.
If our right to catergorise and label signs is taken away, how are we supposed to refer to things? By saying "Some Scorpios can occasionally be like this, but on the other hand many never are and some are more like Libras, not that I'm trying to stereotype Librans either!"
What kind of over political correctness has swept people up? This is taking things too far.

posted September 27, 2005 10:59 PM              

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Yeah, MNF, we've actually already had this debate here before. There were generalization police and everything.

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posted September 27, 2005 11:13 PM            

Yup. It all started here...
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005221.html

posted September 27, 2005 11:52 PM              

I have a major assignment due tomorrow so I don't have much time, but I'll post an explanation, so you understand where I'm coming from in a couple of days

posted September 28, 2005 01:05 AM              

So, I am currentlty putting together a ciriculum for junior high kids that would include elements, modes & houses, as well as sign (planetary) rulership- and the next level would be aspects. I plan to present it to the school board as a work shop. Anyone else in the know, I encourage you to do the same. Spread the word, my breathen.

Ask $5.00 per kid and make it optional. After school, if need be. I think you'd be surprised at the response. It depends on how entertaining you are (^_^)

Anybody can do this, if you know a thing or two about a thing or two about Astrology.

Think about it.

posted September 30, 2005 01:07 AM              

Hallo MNF, I'm soooo happy my assigns outta the way lol yayyyy triple smileys

Anyways, about the topic.. obviously there will be some generalization in every topic we ever have. That's perfectly fine with me..and like I said to Whiterabbit earlier..I do that myself.

But when it gets to the point where it becomes THIS self righteous and somewhat patronizing.. it makes me wonder whether the person is just a little bit TOO involved in this astro business..know what I mean?

Like I said ..i'll re-quote myself, in case you missed it in MG's little drama fest

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Astrology isn't the beginning and end all of everything, and it most definitely isn't the beginning and end all of human personality. There are other beliefs and sciences that also have a grain of truth..and there are plenty of new discoveries in human psychology STILL to be made..

Joking and investigatig and looking into things is fine because that's where we learn things..but sternly and seriously believing in a subject, leaving absolutely no leeway for anything else and limiting yourself and others to this one particular area, calling others "signs" instead of people.. I honestly think that's taking it just a little bit to far, and in my opinion that isn't ok..

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That's basically it. I like Astrology and I'm interested in Astrology and that's why I'm on this site BUT I don't agree with anyone taking it to this extent and expressing themselves in what I see as a very stern self righteous manner.

If this topic were written in a less self righteous way..I would not have said anything. There are ten dozen examples I could use as to WHY I see these posts as self righteous - (I could write an essay on the ways in which this person is at least *expressing themselves* in a selfrighteous and narrow minded way (whether that's the way they *actually* think or simply don't know how to express themselves in a more diplomatic manner..I obviously can't say, it might also be the language barrier..I really don't know) - but either way, I don't really want to drag this on or make the person think I'm having a go at them, when I'm not. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from.

So I'll just give my ONE example....To me, when someone assumes they are all knowing and makes posts stating "many" ten dozen times.. ie "many cancers", "many leos", "many virgos"..I mean in all honesty how MANY people of a certain sign can you know on a personal level..WELL enough to sustain the accuracy of your judgements as to whether they actually are the way they say they are OR not.

If the person were to have put this in a different way..for instance - if they had said something along these lines - "I've noticed that sometimes people of certain sign deny having characteristics of that sign. Do you yourself feel you fit your sign 100% or not? It's also been my experience that with the people I know I actually SEE the traits they deny to have a lot of the time..and I feel as though they HAVE those traits. I could be right in my assesment..and I could also be wrong. I realise I'm not all knowing and I realise that I can't ASSERT with any certainty that alllll of these "many" ppl of alll these diff signs I happen to know ARE exactly the way I perceive them to be. Perhaps, just maybe..yaaa know, I'm over reading sun sign books..and since all sun sign characteristics are really just human characteristics that we all posses to some extent.. I realise that maybe I might just NOTICE it more in these people because of wanting to see that in them. Then again my assesment could be correct.. Either way i'm not sure. I'm not gona type here and pretend I'm all knowing king of the psychological universe and that somehow I KNOW all these people way better than they know themselves"

Ok so that got pretty sarcastic towards the end..what can I say? I couldn't help myself.. But hopefully you'll get what I mean..

Bottom line, if the post was expressed in a less forward manner that I didn't see as rude and shoving personal beliefs down others' throat..I wouldn't have reacted to it..just like I don't react to the majority of posts on here..

PS Sorry for the werdo language.. this happens every time I have an assign or exam..My terminology goes all legal lol..OMG i just said terminology..see what i mean? anyways MNF try to get what I'm saying despite the "formal talk" LOL

Pop I appologise if anything said in here offends you, because it isn't meant to offend you. It's just the way you came accross to me on this thread..and I'm entitled to my opinion right? I'm not even saying you ARE self righteous..You might as well not be. But the way you've expressed your POINT in this thread comes accross as very narrow, one tracked..self righteous.. to me personally

But Sowwy *pouts* and puts on a cwute smile..

I have no probs with you..Don't get me wrong. I just don't like the whole "i *know* better than all of these other people in my life" attitude. A lot of times the traits people express on the outter are not the traits you'll find on the inner when you get close, so I don't think it's right to just *assume* you're perfectly correct in your assessment of all of these people's personalities and that all people of a certain sign will share this or that, trait.. It honestly isn't that set in stone

I like giving people leeway to be who they are and I accept them the way they are. I don't patronize because I've been through some pretty bad experiences with patronizing people and I would never do that myself, i know how it makes the other person feel..and for some reason when I see someone else who I think would patronize, even if it's towards people I'll never meet or have any relation to, it bothers me..simply because I feel it isn't right..and I don't want anyone to get hurt over it

posted September 30, 2005 01:48 AM            

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Getting back to this, I just ad a conversation with a Libra woman that said that Libras don't like to get married...

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posted September 30, 2005 07:05 PM              

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If this topic were written in a less self righteous way..I would not have said anything.

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So the thing was that you didn't like the way that I wrote it. Well, some people like me and some people don't like me. And BTW I think most people understood what I meant.

posted September 30, 2005 07:43 PM              

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

posted October 01, 2005 12:12 AM              

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So the thing was that you didn't like the way that I wrote it. Well, some people like me and some people don't like me.

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Yes, because the way you wrote it makes it sound as though this is very much so set in stone in your mind, and you don't see any grey areas. As though you're saying This IS the way people are..not this IS the way I THINK people are. I find that presumptuos but..

I DO like you. I'd never dislike someone only because I disagree with their view of things.

posted October 01, 2005 12:28 AM              

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Since it isn't written in ghetto talk

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And what type of people do you feel speak "ghetto talk"?

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

posted October 01, 2005 04:11 AM            

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One's Sun-Sign is rather like the part of one's address that gives the town you live in, whereas a full and proper Birth Chart gives not just your street and house number, but every nook and cranny of your home itself, including your loft and basement!

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quote:

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The modern or 'psychological' astrologer is one who uses a Birth Chart to investigate and reveal one's essential nature, the effect of one's past upon one's present, what and who one attracts, and how one 'works.'

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posted October 01, 2005 07:15 AM              

quote:

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One's Sun-Sign is rather like the part of one's address that gives the town you live in, whereas a full and proper Birth Chart gives not just your street and house number, but every nook and cranny of your home itself, including your loft and basement!

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I'd add to that, and your SOUL is the person who lives in that house.

posted October 01, 2005 08:45 AM            

You make perfect sense. I understand more what you were trying to convey now. I did secretly hope you wouldn't dislike me for my view! I didn't think you would, since I've noticed that sometimes Arians can be very understanding and reasonable people. Plus, thinking of you as a person, I figured you wouldn't hold against me.