posted October 18, 2005 11:25 PM              

I do not see why would any one expect that either government was in a position to help. The military depolyed on both sides is meant for combat, not for civil duty. The sheer scale of the disaster and the magnitude of the aid needed simply resulted in a logistical nightmare which needed to b addressed in a rational manner. Logisitics dictate the time it would take to help the casualties. That is an unfortunate truth, and I dont see the reason to point fingers at any government and accuse them of corruption....mismanagement maybe...but corruption? I do not say that governments are immune to the menace or are perfect. Yet why blame the government for logistics? It is true that both sides have spent most of their resources in the past 5 decades on their military....yet wasnt it a priority?

Is there any Pakistani who can not justify their country's military expenditure? The Indians, who were opposed to the creation of their country, took away half of Pakistan in 1971, and fought another 2 wars with them. All this on top of a 'moth eaten Pakistan' given to Jinnah (Pakistan's creator) by the Indians and the British. Indians talk about a conspiracy of Muslim separatism, and raise questions such as the one raised by CancerG about Hindus and Muslims living in peace till the 1930s. That is a misleading fact, and a very dangerous one. India only became a democracy under the British, where a majority reigns. Majority interests are paramount and absolute, often at the expense of the minorities. In a democratic India, by the numbers, who is in a majoirty? Is it the same people who now say that the Indian Muslim Judicial code should be abolished and they should be subjected to the same laws as everyone else? Hence the Shariah which is part of the ethical and moral code of every Muslim in a religious sense is to be put away and another set of laws to be enforced on this 'Muslim' populace?

This debate can go on and on but is not within the context of this forum. For any one who wishes to debate this subject, I do encourage for them to get their facts straight and to be a student of history as well as study the current political processes in the world today. For instance, how many people know that Jinnah only demanded a Pakistan after his requests for power sharing formulas with Hindus were rejected by the Hindu dominated Congress, led by a certain Motilal Nehru, father and grandfather to 2 prime ministers of India? Or that Jinnah tried for over 20 years to reach a deal before he demanded Pakistan? Or how about the Kashmiri resentment in the 1980s under Shaikh Abdullah? How many have heard of the princely state of Junagadh?

posted October 19, 2005 08:46 AM              

i can answer your comments but wont because u dont take debates in the way that u profess .
and yes , u are right , u should have never answered my posts till date . we both made a mistake . we are two different people with different wavelengths which never meet , so its useless creating confusions and hurt .

as for the child thing , its in your mind , not mine ,otherwise i wouldn't have said , u inspire me at times and i see u as competitor ( thats the best form of compliment that i can give anyone ) i dont say these things to childrens .

race and religion-allegations should have some basis . religion has never made decide on friends. my first childhood friend was a muslim . check out the first posts when we started intercating , i even gave his name .

posted October 19, 2005 10:35 AM              

Well, I am now in a super minority of those who have got their past lives uncovered. I have been Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Male and Female. Can you Guess a new fundamental truth? Religion and Politics absolutely SUCK!

The truth is so beautiful, so infinite. It is lost on people who are Nationalists or Fundamentalists who believe in some eternal hell fire thingy. The Soul has no gender, no race, no time binding. I hope everyone gets to expereince a sweet OBE and discovers their immortality.

Anyway, cheers all! I will join some fun debate next time

posted October 19, 2005 12:36 PM              

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If you consider it 'usless' CancerG about indulging into a debate over such issues and think people are on different wavelengths, you simply reinforce a certain Two Nation Theory.

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Read my post again . its for sg , not u .
it would be better if u observe a bit better .
as for the two nation theory ,i have already said i can't understand when two people who have lived together for twelve centuries can become enemies in less than a decade.
as for the other historical facts that u have put , they are as much disputable as is your assumption of me .

posted October 19, 2005 06:51 PM              

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. I have had more death threats on the internet than a scorpio girl has male afficionados.

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quote:

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The truth is so beautiful, so infinite. It is lost on people who are Nationalists or Fundamentalists who believe in some eternal hell fire thingy. The Soul has no gender, no race, no time binding. I hope everyone gets to expereince a sweet OBE and discovers their immortality.

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Beautifully said

posted October 19, 2005 08:39 PM              

Hi .. just butting in here with a Peaceful music break :-)

.. quite a varied composer is mr.w. ..
you may like the eastern influence ..
there is a yemini or morrocan lass who sings with him .. now and again ..
but maybe not so much on these trax .. think .a. be a good one ..

.. these were posted in 'nother thread ( re: pisces ) ..
http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/j.w.a.mp3
http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/j.w.c.mp3
http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/j.w.b.mp3

mp3s will be on server for next 72hrs .. probably ..

.. some info re: mr wobble .. bass player .. composer .. http://www.jahwobble.com

.. ps .. those pics are boooooutiful ..

now i'm strolling out .. backwards .. just like retro mars in .t. ... :-)

posted October 19, 2005 11:45 PM              

As for your lack of understanding of the 2 nation theory, I did say as simplistically as I could that it was the inheerent nature of democracy. You are welcome to dispute it, yet not to be sarcastic once again.

As for the historical facts you do not accept since they are not compatible with your views, I did recommend the writings of a descendent of the late great Mahatma Gandhi himself. Perhaps you overlooked that and if that is the case you need to observe more, not I. It is not my fault you choose to ignore the source material.

posted October 19, 2005 11:55 PM              

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i can answer your comments but wont because u dont take debates in the way that u profess

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there goes another one of them, you are passive aggressive, sarcastic although you dont admit it. i do debate fairly because all the criticism was regarding countries, but u brought in the personal insults first. therefore u dont BEHAVE the way you claim to be (sensitive and respectful).

and yes,goodbye forever. apology NOT accepted.

posted October 20, 2005 11:12 AM              

read your post , (but i love (sarcasm) the way that indians look at everyone as just a big fat tumor that grew out of them)
- u directly began with indians , there was nothing to provoke it.i put the nehru comment as a matter of fact beacuse i consider it his personal blunder.

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if no one can treat us like human citizens, as opposed to just people sitting on a valuable piece of land, then we'd rather fight till we die, then submit under a cruel and insensitive government.

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and the biggest problem is , u had always a set mindset about me thats why , u brought the child thing again . this was the third time , even though , u know that was said in affection .

my mistake was, i couldn't control my short temperedness .

i feel sorry just for one thing , i could have avoided the personal part .

galti maan le, bhai . agle baar nahi hoge. ok.

posted October 20, 2005 11:20 AM              

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Last but not least, the last time I checked the title of this forum was astrology. Need I say more?

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posted October 21, 2005 10:10 AM              

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Your smile makes me smile CancerG

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posted October 21, 2005 10:43 AM            

The Earthquake

'From the mound of rubble, a little voice cries
"Please help me", then it fades and dies
Cries, anguish, tears, there's despair all around
There's no face you can see on which hope's to be found
An old man is seated, next to him is a corpse
It's his only son, "O please help him God!"
A little girl holding a hand so tight
It's her brother's hand who died last night
Blood pouring from wounds, there's a stench in the air
Towards the sky the dead just stare
It's freezing cold, people thirsty and starved
No fire or light, it's just pitch dark
A baby is crying, it can sense something's wrong
'Cause the comfort of its mother's arm is gone
I sit there and look at the distressing scenes
It seems so unreal on the TV screen
Then all of a sudden I started to weep
That could be my child, that could be me!
The tears won't stop -- it's like a damn that's burst
'Cause something tells me it's going to get worse
Will things ever be the same? O God, we need help
It's not only their trial, but ours as well
Then all of a sudden, something happens to me
It's like I've been blind and now I can see
No weeping for me! That's all in the past
Let me get into action and do my part.'

Courtesy of Zainab Habib

My heart goes out to all those who've suffered in the India/Pakistan/ Kashmir earthquake. Its really painful and distressing to watch the scenes on the television, one can only wonder how painful it would be in real life.