posted February 22, 2006 02:49 PM              

i have long believed that nodal contacts in synastry are kind of like an agreement between 2 people to meet this time around, in order to help each other out. sometimes it works out very nicely and sometimes the contact is painfully intense. it doesn't matter if you end up being involved platonically or romantically...if there are strong nodal contacts between 2 people and you have more than a cursory relationship, you end up affecting each other deeply for better or for worse.

for instance, i had a particularly intense romantic relationship which ended last year. we were involved about 2 years. i have this really tight t-square involving my sun at 28 pisces opposed pluto at 28 virgo, and my natal moon at 27 sag is the apex that squares both sun & pluto.

my partner had his sun at 29 virgo and his NN at 27 virgo, so as you can see my sun sat right on his SN, and my pluto landed directly on his sun/NN. to top it off, my moon squared both his SN and his sun/NN. i dont know if this makes sense, but i like to picture my t-square as a triangle with the sun on one end of the base and pluto on the other, with the moon as the apex of the triangle. then i picture his SN lying on top of my sun and his sun/NN on my pluto.

at any rate, this was a very emotionally intense connection. it affected me very deeply, and i suspect i will continue to think of it for many, many years. i cant speak for him exactly, but i do know in some way i affected him pretty strongly as well. i think my pluto at 28 virgo right on the midpoint between his sun at 29 virgo and his NN at 27 virgo scared him off; i was somehow catapulted into this position of great power over him, even though i never chose to dominate him or try to control him as such an aspect might suggest. he and i both shared uranus conjunct the ascendant in our natals, so in this way i felt we were like 2 peas in a pod and perhaps this is why i wasnt inclined to play any power games with him. still, though, that was the power of this nodal connection: i think it was pluto that scared him off. i sense that he sensed some sort of powerful quality in me and due to a variety of health issues he possesses (OCD, agoraphobia, and AS), he ran away because he did not know what do do with it.

at any rate, great thread!

posted February 22, 2006 04:02 PM              

well, i highly recommend that noel tyl article "getting to node you", which i provided the link for in my last post. it is a great start for understanding the way nodal connections work.

i would think a moon-node connection is very strong, especially since it is exact. one nice way to think of synastry connections is to think of it like a transit -- so when you are around your husband, it is like the transiting moon is on his NN, opposite the south, all the time. when you express your lunar energies, you wake up his NN, or soul path.

hope this helps.

posted February 22, 2006 04:55 PM              

With your Moon (home, also emotions) conjunct your husband's North node (future goals) focused in the 3rd house (thinking, also writing), you tend to give "emotional support" somehow to his goals of thinking/writing.

Nodally,

Tim

posted February 22, 2006 05:57 PM              

Venus in Virgo in 6th forming a T-Square with North Node in Gemini in 3rd and South Node in Sagittarius in 9th - 0 degree orb

posted February 22, 2006 06:17 PM            

Ok, so my NN is in my Sun Sign, Capricorn. Any significance there?

posted February 22, 2006 11:38 PM            

Zala... are you still there?
Aquarius in the first house, conjunct Mars... and I'd love info on the South Leo too. I was held back by teen friends in high school and dealing with that Leo/teenage energy always has the same effect. At that age I planned to work in a field councelling troubled teens, it has always come easy as Tim mentioned, but often distracts me from the higher learning that will eventually help me make the greatest difference in that area and in other areas as well.

...and I have a strong connection with another Aquarian mars with the same N.N. and a Libra moon (trine the NNs/Mars etc and my Sun is Libra... you get the idea...)
What do you think about that kind of conjunction, Tim? Will you simplify that one for me? I have always felt that this friend and I should create music together. We have supported each other in this for a long time and I can sense an even greater destiny...

posted February 23, 2006 12:33 AM            

"The Lunar Nodal Axis is defined by two points where the Moon's path in orbit around the Earth intersects the plane of orbit of the Earth around the Sun. These points are symbolically a synthesis of the Sun's apparent motion and the Moon's actual motion, tieing together Sun and Moon symbolisms, accentuating relationship, leader and follower, male and female, light and reflection. "

posted February 23, 2006 01:01 AM            

South Node

What should be developed and what should be left behind

Aries

Libra

To be assertive, not rely on others too much

Taurus

Scorpio

To be more practical, less emotional

Gemini

Sagittarius

To be more clear headed, less idealistic

Cancer

Capricorn

To be more caring, less materialistic

Leo

Aquarius

To develop personal authority, less anarchic

Virgo

Pisces

To be more down to earth, less dreamy

Libra

Aries

To be considerate of others, less self-interested

Scorpio

Taurus

To let feeling flow, less concerned with practicalities

Sagittarius

Gemini

To develop broader vision, less attention to detail

Capricorn

Cancer

To be more practical, less sentimental

Aquarius

Leo

To share more, less egotistical

Pisces

Virgo

To develop sensitivity, less critical"

posted February 23, 2006 01:52 AM              

You asked:

quote:

---

...In a ...natal...chart...Venus in Virgo in 6th forming a T-Square with North Node in Gemini in 3rd and South Node in Sagittarius in 9th - 0 degree orb

and would having two T-squares in a natal chart just be the worst or what?

---

The easiest way to think of a T-squares is as a "pointer". So your nodes "point" to Virgo (daily work) modifying Venus (relationships - Venus in sign of its fall - very challenging energy) focused in the 6th house (daily work - Venus in house of its fall - very challenging). This indicates that there is a challenge with relationships in your life: relationships work best with spontaneous, free-flowing energy, while you tend to want to have some sort of routine in relationships. On the other hand, simply setting up a daily routine to live by can be a "joyous experience" since you relate to daily work and routine. In relationships you would also have to find someone who valued routines as much as you do.

In my opinion, T-squares are VERY helpful, because they collect and focus chart in one area, making the person VERY strong in doing the area where the T-square is focused.

Focusing,

posted February 23, 2006 02:02 AM              

You said:

quote:

---

...my NN is in...Capricorn. Any significance there?

Also, Tim you said it may be a good idea for someone with a Libra NN to get involved romantically with a Libra Sun person. Does this go for all NNs, or does that only work for Libra since that is the sign of partnership?

---

Capricorn (duty, also structure) modifying North node (future goals) indicates you are moving towards "doing your duty" by helping out "structuring" goals in some way. The house where the North node is in will indicate where this "structuring" is focused.

And, to clarify, in a synastry (relationship) chart ANY planet conjunct North node indicates a person whose energy "pulls us forward" in life. This has to be an actual conjunction, not simply two planets in the same sign. Only an actual conjunction allows the planet to combine energy with another planet or point. An example which would NOT work would be A's Libra North node not conjunct B's Libra Sun. Another example is A's Scorpio North node not conjunct B's Libra Sun. It is the CONJUNCTION of the two planet and North node that matter.

The conjunction is the most intense and direct. As I also mentioned, if there is an aspect pattern created linking the nodes between two people, this indicates one person could be a "bridge" to the other person's North node. An example A's South node (the past) trine B's Sun (self-expression) sextile A's North node (future goals). This indicates B's self-expression could somehow help A move out of their past focuses and start accomplishing their goals.

Nodally linking,

posted February 23, 2006 11:27 AM              

Venus (relationships) conjunct North node (future goals) indicates that you move toward your future goals by relating to others...by being aware of those around you. Mars is all about the big M...ME, ME, ME BABY! So it is about who we are and what we do to be who we are. This energy is the OPPOSITE of "relating" to others. When these energies of one person's Venus and another person's Mars get together, it can seem like "yanking"...especially for the Venus person, who wants to sit back and be "nice" while Mars is all go Go GO!

I do NOT use traditional interpretations, largely because of what you describe. I have "bad" (maelfic) planets in my chart? So I am a "bad" person because I have "bad" energies? So whenever I use these energies I will in some way be "bad"? I know, I know, I am exaggerating, but I am exaggerating to make a point. This way of thinking does NOT help a peson in their personal growth. So I throw aside the "traditional" and look at the "psychological". How can I use these energies so they help me grow and develop in my life? How do I "eliminate the positive latch on to the affirmative" (for those of you with LONG memories! ) in planetary energies.

To me this has to do with getting at the CORE meaning of signs/planets/houses and to STOP trying to label things "good" or "bad" in a chart. Mars is about expressing who we are (being), Saturn is about structuring ourselves (duty). That is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know.

For more about this approach to astrology see my astrological website: http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc

Ranting,

posted February 23, 2006 11:37 AM              

In my opinion, since the nodes are "points" and so don't have any energy to them, aspect patterns (such as the Grand Cross) made between the nodes themselves indicate a "possibility" between the people but not a "definite". If there is energy conjunct the node then the node is "energized" without that energy, the node is simply something that might happen. With a Grand Cross between you, you MIGHT be able to use the Grand Cross as a way to develop each other's future goals.

More importantly than "pure node" aspect patterns, look to see if either person's energy is aspecting the other person's nodes in an aspect pattern. For example, if one person's Sun trines the other person's South node and sextiles the other person's North node. In this case, the Sun creates an Easy Opposition aspect between the two people, indicating that the person's Sun (self-expression) can be a "bridge" to help the other person accomplish their life goals.

Opinionatingly,

posted February 23, 2006 11:43 AM              

*oh yes, do you think it is significant that my mother's sun and my father's moon sits on my southnode?

posted February 23, 2006 12:47 PM              

i also have a natal venus-NN conjunction (in aquarius), right on my 5th house cusp. i have one friend that i can think of who has her mars right on my venus/NN. this is not too bad a combo in our case; i think she creates a certain energy buzz when we're together (that i feel) which is mostly pleasant.

i figure your guys (you did say there were a couple of guys that you shared this aspect with, right?) could have both had an afflicted mars, so the energies of this particular conjunction ended up being rather challenging. it's a possibility, anyway.

moonduchess, i think maurice fernandez has some info on his astro board (evolutionary astrology, if you do a search on google using his name, maurice fernandez, and the phrase evolutionary astrology) about nodal connections like the one you mentioned, squared nodal axes. he is a big believer in karmic nodal synastry. you should definitely check out his site, he's got some good stuff there.

for everyone, besides loving noel tyl, i am also a fan of dane rudhyar. i found an article of his on the nodes here:
http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/interpretlunarnodes.php

i took the liberty of pasting a snippet of it in this post...i think this passage is VERY interesting. i hope you all enjoy!

As the Moon reaches its North Node and enters the area of north latitude, it is as if it were opening itself to cosmic or spiritual influences symbolically represented by the North Pole and, more specifically, the pole star. Thus, the North Lunar Node represents the point of intake of spiritual cosmic energies; and it was called the "Dragon's Head" — the nodal axis being symbolized by a dragon. The South Lunar Node was the "Dragon's Tail." From a more strictly biological and functional point of view, the North Lunar Node refers to the mouth of an animal and the South Lunar Node to the organs of evacuation, which means both the anus and the procreative organs from which the seed goes forth.

The fact that the South Lunar Node refers not only to the point of excretion of waste materials, but also to the release of seed materials (fecundated or not) is still not understood by most astrologers today, though I have stressed it for some thirty-two years. I recall how I came to realize this fact when studying Richard Wagner's birth-chart and finding the South Node in his tenth house. Surely, I felt, this often-called "point of self-undoing" does not have a logical place in the house referring to the professional life of this great genius whose works have brought to him social immortality and influenced countless millions of human beings. Then it suddenly came to me that if the South Node truly represents a function of evacuation or release, procreation at the biological level and artistic creation at the cultural level constitute also a process of release of materials which the organism seeks instinctively to eliminate.

French composer Saint-Saens used to say: "I compose just like an apple tree produces apples." The true creative artist releases almost automatically art products which his organism produces spontaneously and of which he seeks to get rid. He acts in relation to his culture or to a special group of people constituting his potential public as a male fecundating a female. The biological or ideological sperm is evacuated; and, if it is not, frustration and tension are usually the results — unless the person is a yogi, who, according to a traditional process, is able to "transmute" his seed into spiritual energy, in which case we can see at work the symbolism of the great serpent who swallows his own tail.

This South Lunar Node interpretation agrees as well with what occurs in the monthly cycle of women. The ovum is released every month at the South Node of the female body, but it is not fecundated. It is waste material, menstruation; and its frequent discomfort or cramps is a South Node phenomenon, just as is the daily process of excretion.

The essential fact is that these South Node processes are automatic; they should demand no effort if human beings lived natural and healthful lives. But also they have no personal meaning unless the organism — biologically or emotionally — is disturbed, tense, and under psychological pressures. The great artist or philosopher, in times of cultural harmony in a steady society, releases his mental-cultural "seed" naturally into an expectant and receptive public with whom communication is easy, smooth, and elating. He is the fecundator of his race.

However, this fecundation, just because it is spontaneous and nearly automatic, may make of him a "sacrifice" to humanity. He pours of himself unceasingly into his community; and he has, therefore, very little left for his own personal growth and spiritual transformation. In that sense, this South Node activity is actually a form of "self-undoing." Wagner remained until his death a rather unregenerated personality. I have known, in my early youth, the great French sculptor, August Rodin (I was for a brief period his secretary); and he was indeed in daily contacts a cantankerous old man who treated his son very badly. Many a genius is so enthralled by his creative activity that it becomes truly a spiritually self-defeating process — just as are all automatic processes and all activities and capacities which one takes for granted. In another sense, the "Don Juan" figure of the legend is a South Lunar Node polarized person.

Nevertheless, one has to be very careful not to give a necessarily negative meaning to the South Lunar ode in a birth-chart, especially in terms of events. It may refer in any case to a sort of "bondage" — but it is often a very special type of bondage; it may mean the fulfillment of a racial karma, a kind of sacrificial offering of self to humanity. At this point of the birth-chart, the past compels; but the outcome may be magnificent in terms of social or cultural results. If one believes in reincarnation, one can say that a capacity developed under stress through past incarnations now produces automatically splendid results; and this may apply to a statesman or inventor, as well as to a creative artist — in all cases, to what we call, often without discrimination, "genius."

posted February 23, 2006 02:34 PM              

You asked:

quote:

---

oh yes, do you think it is significant that my mother's sun and my father's moon sits on my southnode?

---

Yes.

It sounds like you may feel your mother and father's energy held you back in life (their energy conjunct your South node (the past) ).

Briefly,

posted February 23, 2006 03:32 PM            

So we're talking good conjuction only? Ok. Within just my chart by itself once again, my Jupiter is conjunct my NN in Capricorn. They are both in the 16th degree. Does that conjunction hold significance?

Thanks

posted February 23, 2006 04:05 PM              

I mentioned it before in the thread about your Bucket chart and I am mentioning it again, you have STRONG "duty" energy. The "handle" (focus) of your bucket pattern is Saturn (duty, also structure, authority), Capricorn (duty) modifies your North node (future goals) conjunct (energy is combined with) Jupiter (expansion, also wisdom, religion), your girlfriend's Saturn (duty) conjuncts your North node. This chart is all about being dutiful, responsible, structured and...being "the authority".

I have ALSO seen that authoritative duty, too, in your many useful, authoritative posts on your well-developed wisdom on religious matters and advising people on the way to be responsible with their religious energies. You are the "adult" here, teaching all us kids how to behave!

Behaving,