posted March 11, 2007 04:30 AM            

K.

posted March 11, 2007 04:50 AM            

This year is for me turning point, I feel it. Saturn will stop opposing my Venus soon, Jupiter is moving around whole year, up-down over my AC, True Node conjucting my Moon....maybe I will get true love this year, because in 2 years I have Jupiter and True Node conjucting my Venus. Getting married?

posted March 11, 2007 10:52 AM            

Have you ever looked at your Transit Rhythmogram?? It looks like things will "settle down" a bit this summer before ramping up again for next year..... glad you're feeling better about it

posted March 11, 2007 12:18 PM            

the 8th is about you valuing others - for the "right" reasons - and having their trust and not betraying it. bc your own worth and the others' are balancing eachother out (opposite poles). if you feel unworthy, you'll tend to get together with ppl that treat you badly (to reflect your own opinion of yourself back to you).

posted March 11, 2007 07:35 PM              

I have Mercury Conjunct Saturn. I have Gemini Rising. I have Mercury Conjunct my Sun. I have Mercury Trine Neptune. I have Mercury Sextile Pluto.
My experience of My Mercury Conjunct Saturn is going to be different to another persons experience of that particular aspect.
The sign and house placement will add further difference to the manifestation of the energy implied by the aspect. My Saturn is in Cancer, My Mercury is in Leo, both on my first house cusp.....Different from Mercury Conjunct Saturn in Capricorn in 8th house?

Saturn transits can be hard sometimes, however they can offer an opportunity to re-focus and re-structure your life. My Saturn return really gave me situations in which I had to re-structure from the ground up.....But, for me it meant that I was much more in touch with what I feel I was meant to be doing here......So, a very positive outcome for me

Hugs

posted March 11, 2007 07:37 PM            

First, I started off by asking if it was true that a Moderator was ONCE AGAIN starting an argument. Really?

I also pointed out that she only posted part of the interp she used, and asked her how a person with these positions could be a success at "architecture, drafting, science, research, education, politics, government service, conservation of natural resources, and accounting" by bending the truth and scheming.

Then I posted william's interp of the position in question:

quote:

---

yor mercury is opposed to saturn indicating a very reflective nature and not one to waste words.very selective and correct analysis,but also a bit reclusive.

---

I explained that this was the interp I was commenting from, and that there are others that also disagree with her chosen interpretation like this one from Kepler 7.0:

quote:

---

Mercury Opposition Saturn:

You have an aptitude for solving difficult mental problems due to your careful, methodical approach, attention to detail, and tenacity in following a matter through to its conclusion. You have good powers of concentration and enjoy studying and thinking in solitude. You can get wrapped up entirely in your own thoughts and completely engrossed in some small detail. You are slow and cautious, but extremely thorough in your work. Conservative and something of a skeptic, you may be narrow-minded or closed to any idea which has no concrete proof or scientific verification. You prefer dealing with facts rather than abstract speculation. You may also be distrustful or fearful of anything you cannot understand with your rational mind. You are well-suited to work in research or any field that requires careful study and thought.

---

quote:

---

Mercury Opposition Saturn

You may feel that others always disagree with whatever you say. You have a strong tendency to feel different from others and not understood by them. You can work on this problem by being absolutely clear and precise in what you say and getting others to do the same. This is not brutal frankness, it is clear language.

You are rather conservative in your thinking and slow to adopt new ideas, preferring to stick with the ones that work for you. Your standards in your work are very high, so you can be a very demanding perfectionist. And you apply this to others as well as yourself. www.astro.com

---

quote:

---

Saturn connected to a personal planet in hard aspect has a censoring effect on the planet involved. With Mercury in hard aspect to Saturn, whatever the person says and writes is self-censored to some degree. It's hard for these people to pour out their emotions, no matter how emotional or needy they feel on the inside. This is because they are always aware of what others might think of them with what they say. They are not necessarily deliberate talkers or thinkers. In other words, they don't always pick and choose their words carefully or speak slowly. However, they are careful with what they reveal to others. They make plenty of disclaimers, and often come across as negative or sarcastic without intending to. These are people who review conversations they've had with others, and who often kick themselves for saying something they didn't intend to, or for not saying something witty. Saturn tends to have a hobbling effect, and when it's attached to the planet of communication in hard aspect, there can be some feelings of insecurity about how we speak and communicate in general. These people tend to worry about what they've said and how they could have said it better. Some older astrology texts suggest that there can be learning disorders or "slowness" with this aspect, but this is rarely the case. In fact, many people with this aspect are very strong academically. The flow of their communication is blocked in some manner, however, and this is due to an automatic "self-censoring" tendency. Self-consciousness and hypersensitivity is experienced with regards to their intelligence and ability to get ideas across to others, especially in youth. These people need plenty of positive feedback from others in order to feel more confident and less "blocked".

If you have this aspect in your chart, recognize that you are most likely harder on yourself about how you communicate than others are. Ask people close to you for an objective point of view. Chances are, they find you to be astute, intelligent, and an effective speaker or writer. We often tell our kids "don't worry about what others think", but telling this to a person with a hard Saturn aspects is not enough, nor is it realistic. They will worry. Instead, I have found that the best way to handle difficult Saturn aspects is to get objective feedback from others! Mercury-Saturn people don't accept compliments whole-heartedly, yet they crave them and need them. Others around them tend to stop complimenting them, feeling that they either don't need compliments or don't want to hear them. Nothing can be further than the truth! http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/mercurysaturnaspects.html

---

quote:

---

Mercury opposition Saturn
The opposite positions of Mercury and Saturn shows conservative and traditional thinking. You are somewhat prone to depression and mental anxiety, and this tendency to look on the dark side prevents you from recognizing opportunities sometimes. You are strongly opinionated and prone to become narrow-minded. You are ambitious for intellectual recognition, but you may encounter many obstacles in attaining it. You may be very intelligent and still foster self-doubts about your mental capabilities and potential. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/mercuryaspects.html

---

quote:

---

Mercury opposite Saturn

Mercury/Saturn aspects indicate intellectual discipline, a serious outlook, great powers of concentration, and a knack for logical reasoning. You study subjects in depth, are not content with superficial understanding, and may prefer to work alone. Mathematical ability and a knack for working with figures are often present. Your work habits are careful, tenacious, methodical, and industrious. You are probably quite organized, hard working, and proficient at dealing with rules, regulations, fine points, and details. Writers with this aspect are usually masters of grammar and style. There is frequently much ambition, self-control, and a willingness to labor hard and long to achieve your goals. Others view you as honest, prudent, and cautious. This aspect is common in the charts of teachers, military leaders, and politicians. http://www.stellarcharts.com/career.htm

---

quote:

---

Saturn opposite Mercury is conservative in nature, and can have a refining, taming effect, usually by presenting difficult obstacles or hardships that can lead to a maturing of one’s mental skills and viewpoint. It is excellent for the "heavier" or practical forms of science. http://starcats.com/anima/malcolmx.html

---

I'm not sure if there were any more interps that I posted. I finished with this [verbatum]:

posted March 11, 2007 08:50 PM              

Mercury opposite Saturn

Mercury/Saturn aspects indicate intellectual discipline, a serious outlook, great powers of concentration, and a knack for logical reasoning. You study subjects in depth, are not content with superficial understanding, and may prefer to work alone. Mathematical ability and a knack for working with figures are often present. Your work habits are careful, tenacious, methodical, and industrious. You are probably quite organized, hard working, and proficient at dealing with rules, regulations, fine points, and details. Writers with this aspect are usually masters of grammar and style. There is frequently much ambition, self-control, and a willingness to labor hard and long to achieve your goals. Others view you as honest, prudent, and cautious. This aspect is common in the charts of teachers, military leaders, and politicians. http://www.stellarcharts.com/career.htm

This second link was a study of Malcolm X’s natal chart: the astrologer gives their take on Mercury opposite Saturn below:

His ability to study for long periods of time is due to Mercury opposite Saturn (ruler of his Ascendant and Jupiter) in Scorpio in the 10th house.
This Mercury-Saturn contact helped to stabilize and discipline the potentially inconsistent Mercury, Moon and Uranus placements. Saturn opposite Mercury is conservative in nature, and can have a refining, taming effect, usually by presenting difficult obstacles or hardships that can lead to a maturing of one’s mental skills and viewpoint. It is excellent for the "heavier" or practical forms of science. http://starcats.com/anima/malcolmx.html

posted March 12, 2007 10:49 AM              

Getting back to the astrology of things...

If we are looking at an aspect to Saturn, such as Saturn opposite Mercury, it helps to have some "key words" to use for describing the aspect (see Step 6 in the link below). Using these keywords, we have Saturn (duty, also authority, structure, restriction) opposite (energy is over-excited by) Mercury (thinking, also writing/daily work).

Now let's stop a bit and think about what this means. Somehow the person's sense of their "duty" is very "excited" by their "thinking." There could be LOTS of different ways this "plays out":

Maybe the person decides that THEY are the ultimate authority on things and tells everybody so in no uncertain terms.

Maybe the person decides that everyone ELSE is the authority and they feel that they are put down and "told off" by everyone else in no uncertain terms.

Maybe they decide to take their duty seriously and work hard to think about everything they can so they are worthy of being an "authority" on the subject.

Maybe they feel driven to structure every one of their words closely and precisely as they right down the "ultimate" guide book to what "should" be done.

Maybe...you get the idea. VERY different ways to see this energy but in EVERY situation the drive is the same...the overwhelming need to have "authority" in communication somehow.

Come to think about it...the whole kerfuffle about Saturn opposite Mercury is a GREAT lesson in how Saturn opposite Mercury works. Great demo work, guys!

Keeping it light astrologically,

Tim

posted March 12, 2007 11:26 AM              

I have this natally, and can fully agree with the idea that it restricts, constricts the communicative faculties and/or expression in a way in which filters out the spurious. IMO, it gives me the will to master the erratic Uranus energies in my chart when expressing myself.

posted March 12, 2007 04:15 PM            

Tim
Link
________________________________________________________________________

Further, Martin Seymour-Smith author of The New Astrology states on page 132 of that book:

"A close trine and sextile to each end of the opposition indicates fairly easy, often effortless, means of resolution."

posted March 12, 2007 05:08 PM              

Got to go with AG on this one (especially since AG was so kind as to quote me)! Yes, Virginia, there IS such a thing as an "Easy Opposition" I first heard it from a student who said they read it in Alan Oaken, who is a very good astrologer. And I decided what was good enough for Alan was good enough for me! And, with all due respect to Martin, but I don't think it necessarily makes everything ENTIRELY "easy or effortless"...after all there is still that pesky opposition to deal with!

Taking it easy,

posted March 12, 2007 05:34 PM              

quote:

---

well, the 8th is NOT about money (just like the 2nd isn't either). it's about the value of others - about intimacy, and trust. that money (resources) thing is just a trap - the easy way is never the right way with Saturn.
the 8th is about you valuing others - for the "right" reasons - and having their trust and not betraying it. bc your own worth and the others' are balancing eachother out (opposite poles). if you feel unworthy, you'll tend to get together with ppl that treat you badly (to reflect your own opinion of yourself back to you).
the deep, dark reputation of the 8th house speaks of deep, inner values - and not surface, superficial ones.

---

quote:

---

Saturn transits can be hard sometimes, however they can offer an opportunity to re-focus and re-structure your life. My Saturn return really gave me situations in which I had to re-structure from the ground up.....But, for me it meant that I was much more in touch with what I feel I was meant to be doing here......So, a very positive outcome for me

---

Tim! thanks

quote:

---

Maybe the person decides that THEY are the ultimate authority on things and tells everybody so in no uncertain terms.

---

quote:

---

Maybe the person decides that everyone ELSE is the authority and they feel that they are put down and "told off" by everyone else in no uncertain terms.

---

quote:

---

Maybe they decide to take their duty seriously and work hard to think about everything they can so they are worthy of being an "authority" on the subject.
Maybe they feel driven to structure every one of their words closely and precisely as they right down the "ultimate" guide book to what "should" be done.

---

posted March 13, 2007 01:23 AM              

An "Easy Opposition" is NOT an opposition all by itself. It is an aspect pattern and in energy is similar to the more familiar "T-square" in which opposition energy is focused into a third area by square aspects to the other two energies. T-squares can be VERY challenging to handle, particularly in balancing out the tension of the opposition with the third energy. However, someone with an "Easy Opposition" has a sextile (energy goes easily with) and a trine (energy goes very easily with) to the third energy. So the opposition energy EASILY flows from the opposition into the third energy.

Explaining easily,

posted March 13, 2007 01:33 AM              

You said:

quote:

---

well, the 8th is NOT about money (just like the 2nd isn't either). it's about the value of others - about intimacy, and trust. that money (resources) thing is just a trap - the easy way is never the right way with Saturn.

the 8th is about you valuing others - for the "right" reasons - and having their trust and not betraying it. bc your own worth and the others' are balancing eachother out (opposite poles). if you feel unworthy, you'll tend to get together with ppl that treat you badly (to reflect your own opinion of yourself back to you).

the deep, dark reputation of the 8th house speaks of deep, inner values - and not surface, superficial ones.

---

This may be YOUR idea of the 2nd and 8th house, but at its basest, bottomest, hard corest, these two houses are about PHYSICAL things, especially the 2nd house. The 2nd house is about things which have "material security" (see Step 4 below for more about how the house focuses are created) and one of the most material ways to be secure is to have a LOT of money (or possessions)!

The 8th house can be seen as a kind of "reflection" of the 2nd house, so it is about "physical" things in the outer world, such as money in the outer world. Also consider that the 8th house is the 2nd house from the 7th. So, since the 7th house is about "relationships", the 8th house is about the MONEY which comes from these relationships (sometimes called "shared resources"). This method is called "deriving houses" and it can help explain house meanings.

While "values" is ONE way to look at it, the things that have the most "value" to the 2nd and 8th house is money. For the 2nd house it's personal money...and for the 8th house it's everybody else's money!

Talking money,

Tim