posted October 23, 2007 04:17 PM              

it is hard to tell with this guy. he is a triple cancer and tells me all the time that he does not like to talk about his feelings. we have been chatting on line for over a month and have already racked up a few hundred hours.. we also spent the 2 most intimate, fun, days of my life together a couple of weeks ago. i think about him ALL THE TIME and i still can't figure out if he realy likes me as i do him because he is very evasive. at times he really seems to and at other times i wonder if i am hallucinating because he is so hush hush on his feelings. it boggles and frustrates me to pieces! but i love it too cuz it's forcing me to think very deeply about myself in love, what i want, etc etc. but, OBSESSED, I AM!!

posted October 23, 2007 04:30 PM            

I always thought it to be logical that whatever planet is being affected by Pluto would be the planet to experience the intense changes and magnification of Pluto's energies. But what I was trying to say is that between all of our examples we may discovering that it doesn't matter, that both planets are feeling the intensity.

But Pluto is the most powerful planet, only the Sun is equal in power to Pluto. When Pluto touching Venus, it is going to amplify, and magnify all Venusian energies way out of proportion whether it be social issues, romance, sexuality, artistic aesthetics, decorating, sweet and lavish foods, luxuries, finances. Pluto destroys and rebuilds but most of all it magnifies with nuclear intensity, so my thought was always that the Venus gets obsessed, but I think it's an age old argument and we are not the first to try and figure it out. For now, I'm going to believe that it goes both ways.

Geocosmic Valentine

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"Everybody is a star!"

posted October 23, 2007 06:37 PM            

You just reminded me that my first boyfriend had Venus conjunct my Pluto and yes, it took me 2 years to get over him. Yes, a conjunction is a strong tense aspect depending on what planets are involved. With Pluto-Venus, it can still be obsessive but hopefully you'll have it with someone who will have a lasting relationship with you because it feels wonderful in that respect.

And I don't mind you describing the stories as interesting, they actually are interesting and enlightening. If it's helping someone to learn then I'm all for it. It is fascinating to discover these energies and possibly how to work with them in a positive manner.

LeoCat,

I explained it twice in this thread that we seem to be discovering that the obsession or strong attraction can be either the Venus or the Pluto. Everyone here so far has had a different experience being in the role of both planets. How can any of us feign expertise when astrology is so ancient yet constantly evolving and modernizing.

In simple terms, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Capgirl, I think that's your name,

Sorry if it's not, I can't see your name while I'm posting, but I just wanted to say good for you for coming out of the obsession. You had some power struggle Pluto aspects mixed into that synastry. There was a lot of stress that you described, those aspects did not look easy. But I bet that you are solid proof that you learned a lot and there are certain behaviors you will never accept from a spouse and certain behaviors you may not repeat in relationship. That's what these experiences can teach us.

Geocosmic Valentine

posted October 23, 2007 08:08 PM            

What I think causes a feeling of obsession.. is "want what you can't have".. The "can't have" part comes from a deeper feeling of "shouldn't have" or "it's wrong to have"; a feeling which most probably has its roots in a mistaken interpretation of religion.. or faulty social concepts of sex - which abound this day in age..

So, after the feeling of "want to have", comes in the feeling of "but it's wrong, so I shouldn't have".. then comes restriction and with that obsession. I don't believe that a feeling of obsession could thrive in a couple where both people have healthy views about sex and their own bodies - their own sexuality and that of the other person.

Obsession can only occur in conjunction with restriction - restraining from sex (or even the energy of sex/attraction) for personal reasons (all of which I perceive as counter-spiritual)..

When you love yourself, mind, body and soul.. and you have respect for the act of sex and attraction as it is - just because it's an amazing connection between two humans.. You let sexual energy *flow*.. It goes back and forth and back and forth. It's an exchange of power in a positive way - where the give and the take are balanced.. and everyone is happy.. There are no dead ends.. Obsession has no place in this. It's like the flu bug.. If you are a healthy person, you don't let the disease enter your system.

Back to Venus/Pluto.. This aspect can be expressed with a great depth of feeling. It can be a spiritual experience which is transforming in a positive sense. But it's absolutely pivotal.. that the people are - mature; happy with their own bodies; respectful of other people's bodies and sex. If one person, or both - have faulty views of sex.. There is NO point at all in trying to deal with this aspect - or fix things.. with such a person.

posted October 23, 2007 09:37 PM            

Thank you for clarifying the difference between obsession and a healthy attraction and just everything you said. I've run out of articulate things to say tonight (LLOLL), I think Mercury Rx is teasing me now. But your explaination of the psychological dimensions of desire and not allowing ourselves to have it....Oh, I'm trying but it's not working.

I'll just say thank you, you were very helpful.

posted October 23, 2007 10:37 PM              

thank you for your insights once more geo valentine! very helpful..

coral frequency, i do agree with you about obsession to a degree but in my case with my new guy there is nothing sexually difficult between us, nor is it really a matter of wanting what i can't have. in our case he is just very shy about his feelings and this is making me question things at every turn! i overanalyze to begin with and i think it is just the not knowing that is making me feel obsessed. also, i think it is because evolutionarily we each have different love histories and experiences that are so distinctly different, yet somehow we sense a very strong healing potential in one another. so, basically, i do not think "obsessions" are necessarily unhealthy. i think comupulsions take us more inside of ourselves into finding out WHY we have them (and are thus neutral; it's really up to us to determine whether they are positive or not, with our actions).

here is something i wrote about the pluto-venus square in soul unions last week (when i thought it was just pluto who obsessed!):

i just had a small epiphany (i think!) about my venus-pluto square with my boyfriend. i should first say that we have a lot of really great, gentle, easy aspects between us, so i am not sure that this aspect would manifest the same way with out those..

i am the pluto person and he is the venus. i find i am obsessed with him all the time and have this constant sort of anxiety that maybe i am imagining things being so great between us, maybe he is not as amazing as he seems, maybe he will leave me, WHAT in the world is he thinking, does he really feel as strongly as i do, why does he have to be so perfect!?, etc. etc.

and when i sit back a bit and look at the energy pattern there i see that his venus is extremely attractive to me and my pluto, compulsive, neeeeding energy is not farmiliar with his love nature (square) and therefore is desperate to know it and understand it. that is the nature of the obsession, basically.

and the really wonderful thing is that in our case, he always soothes my worries and his venus shines back on my pluto and he is kind and responsive.

so i think really, fundamentally, any contact can easily be positive as long as the venus person remains grounded in lovingness and understands the compulsive behaviour for what it is, and as long as the pluto person is respectful and takes responsibility for his/her intensity, and the reasons for it.

so basically i do not think a challenging aspect is any 'worse' because it is simply about fascination and uncertainty at its heart (a certain alluring unfarmiliarity?), and that with focus and the right intentions, these two can really help one another out, no matter what kind of aspect.

posted October 26, 2007 07:15 PM              

Just IMHO of course.

posted October 26, 2007 09:51 PM              

i don't know if i said anything to hurt you but i'm sorry if i did. i actually didn't read much of the dialogue that was going on in the beginning of the thread cuz it was so personal and heartfelt that i felt like i was eavesdropping.

posted October 27, 2007 02:35 AM            

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted October 27, 2007 07:59 AM            

First: <<<<about Venus in the 12th. I think I've noticed that there is a sense of shame about who we really love or possibly an underlying shame about sexuality>>>>

I have Venus (as well as Sun and Mercury) in the 12th and as I go through this school year, studying psychotherapy, the issue of shame keeps coming up repeatedly. I think I would personally add 'shame about not being loved in return' to the mix. More than sexual shame, I have encountered within myself the shame of that kind of rejection.

I have experienced this more so recently than ever before. I am always in Venus-Pluto relationships, since my Venus is in Cancer and has therefore squared almost every man's Pluto I have ever known. I also, obviously, have a natal Venus-Pluto square. I am ALWAYS the most committed/obsessed/dedicated one. Always. Not always at the beginning, but certainly by the end.

In my most recent relationships (two of them) my Pluto also conjuncted their respective Venuses. And then I really learned about the Venus-Pluto connection!

Unrequited love - bleh. But <<<<Life has lessons for us and his lesson now is to value himself enough to tear himself away from a situation that doesn't serve his heart and soul completely.>>> I very much agree with this. It's pretty freaking hard, when you're in the middle of it, to remember this stuff. But it's true.

I personally like to think of the fact that I have my North Node and Vertex in Scorpio (in the 5th house) during these moments. And the fact that my Draconic/karmic chart is a whole lot of Scorpio. And that the two men I have loved the most (Scorpios, with their Venus-Pluto conjuncting/squaring energies) have also lead me to a new place of empowerment and strength. And I couldn't have done it without them, or all that deep,tough-love Pluto energy.

As for my 12th house stuff...yeah, Venus in the 12th is not an easy ride. It's pretty confusing and painful and just plain devastating sometimes. But I think it gives so much personal empowerment too. Unlike the Venus/Pluto synastry connections, it's almost like a power that sits inside of you, waiting for you to remember it's there.

Having said all that and even knowing (deeply) that all these things happen for a reason, I still get feelings of shame because of the rejection I am still trying to process on a very human level. And I think the point is to start by recognizing that shame and then working to pull as much of it out, at the root, as possible.

And so I think this discussion has also happened for a reason

PS. Jane ~ <<<<<He didn't say, "don't contact me...except for my birthday when we can par-tay.">>> Even in the midst of tears you are still hilarious. I hope that eventually your friend can work through what he needs to so that you two can be friends again.