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Author Topic:   Pluto in 4th house meaning sad childhood?
Waterlily
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posted December 20, 2007 04:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have this and I read somewhere it meant a difficult childhood and constantly being hurt and put down by one or both parents, not receiving needed attention, and always have unexplained feelings of shame. This makes me laugh cuz my sister(pluto in third) doesnt have this and I always felt she was favored by my parents she was the genius, the beauty, the sweet one, the popular one and my parents never let me forget. Its like she cannot do any wrong. Does anyone have this aspect? How do you feel? Did you ever get over it?

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Mama Mia
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posted December 20, 2007 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mama Mia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I know 2 guys that have this and neither of them had a pleasant upbringing..They dealt with alot growing up in their household..

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Aste*risk
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posted December 20, 2007 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aste*risk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mmm... I don't know about that.

I have this placement and I wouldn't say I had much of a difficult childhood with parents. I was an only child until I was seven, though.

I did have a difficult time in school with peers. (Bullying)

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Seeing Stars 7.21
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posted December 20, 2007 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Seeing Stars 7.21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont think Pluto could be the worst planet in the 4th.. My best friend had Pluto in the 4th and his upbringing while seeming somewhat structured or strict was also warm with the parents a big christian family.. they were good parents it seemed. and all of his brothers and sister as well as him have grown up to be great people. but my friend always did act sort of distant then his siblings to the parents atleast what I saw.. so maybe to him the childhood was representive of Pluto 4th, even though it might have not been that bad.. but his mom and dad were seperated he lived with the mom and stepfather.. but everything seemed well..


Now if you want to talk about a screwed up childhood then take my Saturn, Uranus and Neptune in the 4th house lol. that I think presents more difficulty then Pluto alone.

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Astralmuse
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posted December 20, 2007 06:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pluto in the 4th would indicate someone who easily gets attached to family and home, someone who feels their roots deeply. It doesn't show whether the person had/has a good or bad home, or if their familial relationships were/are good or bad, either. For that you would want to look at the aspects to Pluto. But there is high, high importance on emotional understanding, so if the relationships are good it adds incredible strength and if the relationships are bad then it is a consuming blow to the person's core. If the latter is the case, then it will have to be addressed because you just can't escape Pluto problems.

Pluto here also can make a person feel comfortable only at home or in a familiar setting, and anxiety issues can arise when in an unfamiliar place. Again, you would have to check the aspects to see if this is applicable and how strongly. There is a concern with both spiritual values and sincerity among family members.

I know one person with Pluto in the 4th and he has it trine Venus, so he feels very loved by his family and memories of his childhood are very dear to him.

Waterlily, have you ever spoken to your sister about being favored? I have an older sister whom I saw as perfect, but as adults we have discovered that each felt the other was the favorite. There is also a very important aspect of not being the "golden" child (if it is the case that you are not) and that is freedom. Favorite child is not always a good position.

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Glaucus
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posted December 20, 2007 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would look at the aspects to the Pluto in 4th house.

I would think that when Pluto in 4th is in challenging aspects, it can involve a family history of trauma,upheavals,abuse,and betrayal which can lead to trust issues linked to one's mother or father. It can be family secrets too.

Personally,I believe 4th house is mother and 10th house is father.

btw....I believe that planetary nodes can be very insightful.

I believe that South or North Pluto Node in 4th in challenging aspects can also indicate the same things with Pluto in 4th in challenging aspects.

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teaologist
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posted December 20, 2007 07:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Waterlily
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posted December 20, 2007 11:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astralmuse I dont want to got into gross details but she was never the one who received black eyes or got put in the emergency room. I think its safe to say she was the favorite. Her life just always seemed magically easier and happier than mine. Anyhoo this isnt the "lets hear Waterlily whine thread" so I'll stop being a baby now

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MUSTANG
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posted December 21, 2007 02:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus,

How do you find out the nodes to the planets? I'm familiar with the moon's nodes, but not the others.

Hope I'm not hijacking.

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blue moon
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posted December 21, 2007 05:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some things you don't get over, but you can learn to live with them. ~ that's nothing to do with astrology though, just my personal experience.

Accurate birth time charts are a big problem here in the U.K, so I only have an approximate time for my mother (given by an older sister). But she is a Pluto 4th native.

She didn't have the greatest start in life. Amongst other comments she has said she was made to feel of her presence on the planet as "well you're here now, so you might as well get on with it". Big esteem booster, that one {what a thing to say to a child, I don't get it}.

As ever, check out the rest of the chart, check out what how this planet is interacting with other planets. What is it up too? In this case it is in tight conjunction with the Sun and Mercury, trine Moon. I'd be lying if I said she was the sanest person in town. But she's good in a crisis. She's also very well thought of in her local community for helping out vulnerable people.

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alma-noble
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posted December 21, 2007 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alma-noble     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I could say a big YES!
" ... constantly being hurt and put down by one parent, not receiving needed attention, and always have unexplained feelings of shame ..."

I have Pluto in 4th and I've always felt like this because of my mother, even now I don't have a close soul connection with her and I'm still feeling put down very hard and badly by her! It's hurt me very much she is behaving like this, even I know she is trying her best!
But I have also Uranus there and ... Venus, and Moon! They tried to offer me good condition but my mum didn't know the right way to treat me, especially to help me build my confidence in myself. Like she is doing the opposite! I asked my self so many thimes in the past why she must been like that ... and now I believe that maybe only this kind of mother I deserved in this life time and I must cope with her!
I am very bond with my childhood places, sometimes I wanted to run away as far as possible by her but I guess I would be missing so much these places, so I am still here quite near by her!

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Green Fairy
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posted December 21, 2007 06:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This person has a history of verbal and physical abuse in her family and a very sad childhood.
Her mom died during the Arg. Junta and her dad was a cheating, alcoholic misogynist.

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luna*tic12
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posted December 21, 2007 02:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have pluto in the 4th, and I had a very happy childhood. I definitely have a very strong attachment to family and the home environment... then again, I am a Cancer as well.

------------------
Cancer Sun/Leo Moon/Leo Rising/Sun and Moon in 12th House.

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enchantress299
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posted December 21, 2007 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enchantress299     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Honestly... I've seen more "sad" or "bad" childhoods with people who have Saturn in the 4th. In fact, sometimes I'll even know that Saturn is in the 4th before I look at their chart.

However, I would agree with whomever said that if there are hard aspects to Pluto and/or the Nodes in the 4th the individual very well might have had a not so great family life and/or childhood.

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LeoPisCan
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posted December 21, 2007 02:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Man, I have saturn AND pluto in the 4th house.

Definately didn't have a great childhood, but I think it was more a saturn influence than pluto.

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Geocosmic Valentine
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posted December 21, 2007 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Green Fairy,

The chart that you posted here has Pluto in the 3RD HOUSE.

Did her mother die when she was 4 or 5?

Geocosmic Valentine

------------------
"Everybody is a star!"
Sly & The Family Stone

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Green Fairy
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posted December 21, 2007 03:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Hi Green Fairy,

The chart that you posted here has Pluto in the 3RD HOUSE.

Did her mother die when she was 4 or 5?


Yeah i know *shrugs*
I just wanted to "slip" it in the convo [since we're talking about sad/bad childhoods].
She was almost 3 years old.

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teaologist
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posted December 21, 2007 03:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Mars or Uranus in the 4th tends toward outwardly scarier experiences.

I wonder if Pluto in the 4th is more 'tolerable' than Saturn cos Pluto at least seems to indicate possible transformation. Saturn just seems to keep all the psychological/emotional pressure under a lid... possibly for years.

from http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/BookKarmaHouse4.htm:

quote:
With Pluto in the 4th House, the soul, over many lifetimes, is learning emotional awareness and self-sufficiency by means of a process which involves reducing dependence upon outer forms of security, particularly that provided by the mother and the home.

People with Pluto in the 4th House usually confront situations which make them grow up early and yet the nature of the circumstances designed to develop independence in a person, varies considerably, depending upon which other planets are in H4 with Pluto.

If Venus or Jupiter is with Pluto, then the parents are likely to be loving to the child but committed to making him independent early in life. Mars or Uranus in H4 with Pluto nearly always indicate some trauma with parents which involves drink, drugs or violence, as do the circumstances produced by Pluto alone. When Saturn is with Pluto in H4 the parents’ emotional inhibitions prevent them from doing anything more than look after the child’s physical needs. The combination of Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto tends to produce exces­sively liberal parents who thrust freedom upon the child.

How a person deals with the challenges brought by Pluto in H4 will depend very much upon the level of development. The childhood circumstances may take a person the rest of his life to come to terms with, or they may equip him with a sound understanding that he and he alone is responsible for his own happiness and emotional well-being.

With Pluto in the 4th House, a person’s life tends to be made up of a number of distinct phases or watersheds, and it is not uncommon for the Plutonian to quit a property and even a country in order to bring a phase of his life to a close.


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Glaucus
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posted December 21, 2007 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it really depends on not only the natal placement,but the aspects as well as the people that they grew up with and their natal charts. I'd think the synastry and composite of people with the relatives that they live with is very important.


I also think that you have take in consideration of the tightness,wideness of the orb of aspects.


Pluto is a very psychological planet and in 4th it can be highly psychological.....there is a lot of understanding of psychological depths with that placement and can be great for psychologists and other mental health professionals.


it's also important to look at the aspects to the Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis, 4th house ruler,10th house house ruler.

Of course, check out the aspects to the 10th house and not just the 4th house.

also aspects involving Saturn,Sun in regards to the father.

aspects involving Ceres,Moon in regards to the mother.


I had abusive homelife, being abused by mother and stepfather both verbally,physically. My mom was shot when I was 3 years old,and that strongly affected the both of us. Of course,my misunderstood learning disabilities was a big problem too..especially if parents have no patience with my difficulties so they took it out on me. Ironically,my mother told me she has same learning disability issues too. That's why it's important for learning disabled parents to recognized their own learning disabilities,and so they don't get frustrated with their children and end up taking their frustration out on them.....learning disabled people tend to be hypersensitive to begin with. Psychological problems can result.

I have retrograde Saturn conjunct Midheaven in opposition to Jupiter conjunct Imum Coeli.
I have Moon quincunx Pluto in 1st with 2'32 orb.
I have Sun in Scorpio contraparallel Pluto with 42 minutes of arc.
Moon conjunct 8th house ruler Mars in Aquarius in 6th with 1'17 orb
Moon in Pisces in 6th square the opposition of retrograde Saturn in Gemini in 9th and Jupiter-Neptune in Sagittarius in 3rd.

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blue moon
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posted December 21, 2007 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My son has Saturn in 4th opposite Pluto. It sucks a fat one alright.

Transiting Uranus squaring this aspect hit at the time his brother's cancer came back, and probably when he passed of the same, I'd have to look it up and check. But I don't need a book to tell me you don't get over *expletive* like that.

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Azalaksh
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posted December 21, 2007 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pluto in the 4th house, by Steven Forrest.....

I urge everyone to read this – not just those with 4th house natal or transiting planets…..
From Steven Forrest’s “The Book of Pluto”:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLUTO IN THE FOURTH HOUSE

THE FOURTH HOUSE ARENA: Hearth, Clan, Bonded Relationships,The Psychological Self.

THE FOURTH HOUSE PITS: "Homelessness," the "Near-Life" Experience.

IN THE TRADITION...
...the fourth house is the "House of the Home." In most modern astrological texts, it is interpreted in more psychological terms, as the house of the inner self, the feelings, one's deepest archetypal roots.

Both perspectives are valid, and certainly "home" and "psychology" are intimately related notions. Ask any psychclogist what he or she spends the day discussing. Generally, the answer will reflect the eternal concern with one's early family dynamics, their bearing on one's present home life in its horrors, rewards, or in its absence.

Sleep with someone in a spirit of love and revelation for ten years and you might really begin to get to know the person — which is to say, to penetrate his or her fourth house. We all have a profound inwardness, shrouded in secrecy and mystery. The obscurity of the fourth house is not necessarily intentional. Rather, it is built into the fundamental realities of human nature.

Here's an image guaranteed to make any adult smile: a teenage boy rapturously describing the profundity of his relationship with his girlfriend of six weeks. "We know everything about each other," he exclaims. "I mean, there are absolutely no secrets."

We humans open slowly to each other, like flowers. And the innermost petals are the shy ones, revealing themselves only over years ...if at all.

Revealing those innermost petals requires levels of interpersonal trust that simply cannot be forced... or plausibly guaranteed in the heat of passion. A relationship must feel proven, solid, and radically safe before we take such a risk. The heart of the matter here is not so much psychological intensity as it is a simple vow, perhaps unspoken, that we are in it together, forever. That's the true meaning of Hearth and Home — a mythic fourth house paradigm almost lost in this age of transitory, disposable relation-ships.

Pluto in your fourth house? Let's delve into it...

(rest of chapter here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/011863-2.html )

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Astralmuse
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posted December 21, 2007 11:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Waterlily, you aren't being a baby in the least. I hope that everyone's information about Pluto in the 4th is able to give you insight into yourself and your circumstances.

Glaucus, that's a good point about considering the moon nodes.

Azalaksh, I hadn't seen that thread, so thanks for posting the lead and link. Sometimes it amazes me how much information there is on this board!

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Glaucus
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posted December 22, 2007 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was not talking about the lunar nodes.
I was talking about the planetary nodes. Other heavenly bodies have nodes too....planets,kuiper belt objects,and asteroids. Not just the moon.

you can can calculate them for free here
http://www.megadelfi.com/~jonathan/pos/


I have Geocentric South Uranus Node in Sagittarius in 4th conjunct the IC with 58 minutes of arc which seems to reflect my instability at home as well as unusual homelife...I think my multiracial family background fits with that configuration along with lived with half Japanese stepsisters. It was marriage of convenience. Having a special needs child(me) at home could be considered unusual too. Also my stepfather and mother were in an interracial relationship and my stepfather was 25 years older than my mother. They were not a normal couple. My mother never loved my stepfather. They got together shortly after my mother got shot when my mother was 3 years old. My mother told me that. She even felt that she was taken advantage in her vulnerable state at the time. She was only 20 years old with him being 45. There was a lot of instability with them fighting a lot and my mom moving out at times. They separated more than once too..in my early childhood,we stayed with other people. When I was 9 years old, my parents were separated and led to my mom going away at times getting arrested. The next year in 4th grade,my mother had to be in jail for 6 months,and my stepfather took care of me.
My mother is a highly erratic person. My father was very erratic person. My mother moved from my birthplace San Francisco to Sacramento,the town I grew in to get away from my father. My father disappeared for good when I was 1 1/2 years old. I was in a foster home when I was 2 years old because my mom got in trouble. I was born to a 17 year old white girl runaway and an almost 31 year old black man exconvict/drug dealer that met in the highly liberal,progressive city San Francisco. I don't think that you get as unstable,unusual as that.


The Nodes of Jupiter and beyond are more slow moving than the outer planets and relate to the collective.


I'd check out the large kuiper belt objects too. the 3rd and 4th largest kuiper belt objects which are also the 3rd and 4th largest of the minor planets don't even have names yet, and those are 2005 FY9 and 2003 EL61. My own EL61 is in 12th conjunct my Ascendant with 2'10 orb(so I have it rising) and square my Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis with only 3 minutes of arc,and I think that probably indicates my dysfunctional,unstable,abusive homelife more than any configuration.

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Diandra23
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posted December 22, 2007 09:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My bf has his Pluto/Saturn/jUPITER in his 4th house.

Pluto conj Saturn and skuares AC

Saturn trines Moon ,skuares AC and sextiles Uranus

Jupiter skuares Moon,trine NN and sesquiskuare Venus

He cares a lot for his family and i think that he is very attached to them,emotionally,specialy to his Mother.

he had a good childwood with love and care but at a young age he got rebellious cause his way of be and think prettu much shocked with his parents conservative mentalities.

His parents are very good people who gave him a great education and John knows how to stand for his rights and thoughs,being independent financially ( at 17 he wanted to live alone already)

There´s a but in this...i think that his Cancer AC also makes him very dependent ( emocinally) to his Mom´s , but in a way that is like " My Mother is the only one who can provide me the seciruty i need" - i dont know if this is as healthy as it should?

He has his moon in 7th,trine merc/Saturn/pluto

Ceres in the 5th,conj mars/uranus/eros

His 10th has no planets,but karma there
MC oposes his Merc.Trines Vertex

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berryberry
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posted December 22, 2007 09:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pluto is in the 4th house in my chart, and it serves as the top point (sorry, but I don't know the terminology ) of two kite formations (opposite both the sun and venus). Well, if you can have two kite formations where only one planet is different...I'm still learning.

Anyway, my childhood was not ideal and took me a long time to accept the impact it had on me, and my siblings. Once I acknowledged that, and trust me, it was a roller coaster ride until I reached about 25, I emerged a stronger, healthier, and more balanced person. Sometimes I find myself jealous when people talk about their "normal" childhood and families, but hey, I can't change my past, and I recognize that I am who I am because of those early obstacles. Of course, the only way I can keep my sanity is by staying far away from my family .

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