posted November 08, 2003 11:46 PM         

I am married, two years now, to a Libra (Libra rising, Pisces Moon). He doesn't seem to think much of me. He never has a loving word, just complains about how I don't do enough around the house. Im going to college full time and working part time, and he complains that we need more money. He has spent literally thousands on his big TV and his pure bred dog, who he is sure to say goodbye to before he leaves for work, and only looks at me, then leaves. I didn't get a card on our recent anniversary, and I can't remember anything for my birthday either. We cant ever be alone together, when we go out, its always to a sports bar with his friends. We dont go on any little getaways without his friends. We havent slept together since the honeymoon, 2 years ago.

I found a little solace through friends Ive met on the internet. One in particular, has told me that he has feelings for me, that he would like to be with me.

I cant stay in this marriage without feeling worthless and without a future. Tonight, I was screamed at for not putting the laundry away. He drains me of myself. I want to leave, but financially, it's almost impossible.

The internet guy has offered me a place for a few months, just till I get on my feet, since he is leaving for the army in March.
I know, internet things can be dangerous, and I have considered it. Ive been talking to him for 7 months now.

If anyone can offer a point of view, or advice, or insight into these relationships, please let me know.

me-Taurus Sun, Libra rising, Virgo moon
husband-Libra Sun, Libra rising, Pisces moon
internet guy-Sagittarius Sun, Virgo Rising, Leo moon
(If you want more detailed info, I have it)
Thanks so much.

Love,
Kat

posted November 09, 2003 06:40 AM         

I have read you messages on both threads, it isn't clear to me if you have actually met this man in real life or not. It has been my experience that only after you have actually had the opportunity to meet in person and spend time together should you cut any ties or make any new commitments. If this is a situation where he isn't going to actually be living with you, but you living in his home, you first need to go there and make sure his home exists. Also that he has the resources to cover whatever he is promising.
I had a friend who was ready to leave her husband, quit her job and move to Canada to be with an internet love who had asked her to marry him. She had been talking to the man for over a year. She believed him with all of her heart. As it turned out, this man had several other online women, they someone found each other out, and worse than that, discovered the fact that he had two children and a wife who was pregnant with the third.

All of these women were suprised and upset.
My friend had already told her husband she wanted a divorce...she was devastated. I know because I had to help her through it.

I agree with you that getting to know someone over the internet and/or telephone seems to help people shed their inhibitions allowing them to speak more freely and openly about many things...especially sex.

As far as your relationship with your husband goes, before you are quick to give it up, you might want to at least take at least a ~little~ time to find out what the problems are, and maybe try to fix them. Marriage isn't a commitment to be taken lightly. Look at your husband and the marriage with an open heart. You might regret not taking the time to do it later in your life.

How does you husband feel about your chatting? Have you only had sex with him once? Or were you sexually active while you dated? I know that meeting men online can be really intense and exciting. I know that words are powerful and it is easy to get carried away and it can also make real life situations seem much worse then they are...when compared to the promise of something much better ~over there~. The problem is, in reality ~over there~ might not really be all as wonderful as it sounds. You must have loved your husband not too long ago, it's only been two short years that you've been married. Have you discussed things with him? Do you try to talk to him about the things you are displeased with? Are you still in love with him?

There are many things that have to be considered. This isn't like breaking up with a boyfriend....you are married.

Most importantly.....before you get involved with another man, online, or otherwise, you might want to figure out what went wrong the first time. Either you didn't take the time to get to know your husband before you got married, he turned into an ogre over night, are you a poor judge of character or it could be a lack of communication within the marriage? I have known men that actually did change after they said their vows. If you are a poor judge of character, you need to consider this before you choose your next mate you don't want to make the same mistake.

You said that you have been talking to this other man online for 7 months of your two year marriage?
If you are going to school full time, and working part time, I'm surprised you even have time to chat? The one thing I KNOW about chat is that when you are sitting at that computer involved in intense conversation and having fun, 3 hours can seem like 15 minutes. Libra men like to have a clean and orderly environment. It may aggravate him to see you sitting there. He might be wondering what it is that is so much more interesting than he is and more important that keeping up with the house.
If he has any idea at all that you are bonding emotionally with, or just knows that you are spending time with another man, maybe he is hurt. Either of those issues alone would explain for his behavior towards you.

How long were you together before you married? ...too many unknown facts that need to be considered before any decision should be made.

There is a thread in Soul Union, about a woman who wants to save her marriage...in that thread I posted something a clinical psychologist wrote about the first few years of a relationship....and the two relationships being discussed in there both began on the internet. If you haven't gone there, maybe you should check it out.

So...fill in some of those holes...let's see if we can get a clearer picture and maybe help you figure out this problem.

posted November 09, 2003 11:31 AM         

Some more info for clarification:

I dated my husband for 5 years. We had a normal relationship. On the honeymoon, he only wanted to watch TV, and told me to leave if I didnt like it.

He hasn't touched me since the honeymoon. An occasional peck on the cheek, that's it.

He gets mad, like today, if I dont want to drive him to the bar, so I can sit and be ignored for 4, sometimes 8 hours.

He is only "letting" me go to school so I can get a high paying job. He told me it was stupid to do what I liked, instead, I should do what pays the most. I hand over my part time paycheck to him every week.

I keep a clean house. I cook his favorite foods. I plan special events for his birthday and the holidays months ahead of time. I go to every sporting event and heavy metal concert he wants me to go to, but as usual, I end up being the driver, while he chats with the group that always comes along. I try my best to keep him comfortable. I get room and board in return. No conversation, no gifts, no little surprises, no thank yous.

I don't feel like a loved wife. I feel like a housekeeper/personal assistant. And an incompetent one at that. Im feeling guilty for eating his food and sleeping here. This is not the marriage that I expected.

As for the internet guy, I don't plan on going to live with him. I only started internet chat a year and a half after all this with my husband had been going on. I went on the internet to have someone, anyone, respond to me. I just wanted to feel real again, and not so much like a troll.

I only chat on breaks at school, and on the phone in the car. My husband knows about my internet friends, but doesn't react, like with everything else having to do with me.

Im looking for a general compatibility reading with these two in my life. Im clueless when it comes to knowing the positives and negatives of astrological comparisons.

Thanks again. Hope this clarifies a bit.

posted November 09, 2003 02:09 PM         

Yes, that is much better.

Did you have sex quite a bit before the wedding? My ex hubby, a Scorp, pressured me for my virginity...after that we had sex regulary during the time that we dated and then lived together, about 6 years.

When we would talk about getting married he always would say what a huge difference it would make..I didn't think it would make me feel any different. We lived together, we owned everything together, I couldn't be more committed to him or love him any more than I did. So...we got married, I didn't feel any different. One thing did change, however. We quit having sex. Almost immediately. It was weird. He would fall asleep on the couch, and that was it.

No one deserves to live in a sexless relationship. If your partner is ill in someway, that would be an exception, of course, but I don't think anyone should decide they don't want to have sex and then expect thier partner to remain faithful.

Your husband sounds like a big jerk. You don't sound like you are even happy with him, so I guess asking if you are in love with him would sound rediculous. So, I won't.
I will say, however, you need to get yourself to a place where you are happy.

I wasn't trying to deter you from meeting the guy on the internet, or from continuing to meet them that way. I just said to be very careful. I think it would be cool to find men in your area through some kind of internet dating thing. Many of them check the people out...You get to initially meet them thought email, etc...which is a good way to get to know each other's insides first.

I was miserable in my marriage, if you are miserable, do what you can to get out when you can. I waited WAY to long. I was hopelessly in love with him but you seem ready to go....so go as soon as you can.

I met the live in boyfriend that I have now online. It is a great way to meet people, you can get to know them pretty well by phone.

posted November 09, 2003 02:31 PM         

I wanted out. Day by day I would fantasize about being free from him, and about being able to go shopping with a friend or go to the movies or join a gym. (These were things I was not allowed to do.)

The problem was, well I have a Taurus moon first let me say, that all my clothes and items I had worked so hard for 3 years to accumulate were there. And if I were to leave I would have no place to go and no place to live (at this time my parents door was not open). Well I was working (the only one) at that time, but he was smart, and would always count my money and ask me where it was going, and encouraged me to always spend never save (buy us drinks, you have money, why are you saving it?). He was smart, I let him see to it that I never had a penny saved.

Finally, I said, I can leave all the things that are mine if I am to get away. I didn't know if he would try and hurt me if I left, but past experience told me once I announced my leaving, he wouldn't simply stand by and watch my pack and wish me well. No siree. I would have to hitail it out of there.

What really irked me was I was the one who had worked hard for so long and had to leave so much stuff, so many clothes, all my things, and pictures and fun things too, cd's, etc. I had to let go of what I had earned and see that me being free was a greater good.

But I just did it. It was hard. Very very hard. But I got away!!!!!!!!!! I was free!!!!!!!!!!! Due to my own bad decisions, I am not "free" to do what I want at the moment, but I am FREE of him telling me what to do or ordering me around or putting me down.

I went to live with my parents. And don't get me wrong, they had kicked me out at 16 for having marijuana (you wannt talk tough love, I think my folks invented it) and neither me or my parents were thrilled at me having to live with them. I slept on the couch and put up with all their rules. It sucked. It was hard to sleep alone because I hadn't done that in so long. But I got through it and moved out shortly after.

Don't stay with someone at the expense of your self esteem. You deserve to be loved and valued. Trust me. I had to sacrifice everything to get away and I am so glad I did. The guy I was with was a Sag. And I am not saying he is an evil guy, just way too controlling for me. I tried everything to make it work. I tried to please him to no end. I tried to not do what he wanted. Either way backfired. His manipulations and mindgames really f***ed with me.

Please don't let other people make you feel lousy. Just know what you want in life. I knew I wanted to be treated with respect and not controlled.

I can't tell you to do it. I can't make you. I had wanted to leave for a long time. It took a few more BAD physical fights, the cops coming to the house again, and him barring me from seeing my dying Grandma for me to just finally do it.

Put yourself first. We come into this world alone and we leave alone, so we have to take care of ourselves numero uno.

posted November 09, 2003 02:33 PM         

The questions I asked you, the statements I made, are all the things I think about now in retrospect. At the time I just wanted the heck out of there. I was on the net, he knew and hated it. He would complain about me not doing anything, and after all those years of doing it all and listening to him, I stopped.
Rebelling against him was really fun, it felt so good.

I don't know enough yet to do a reading for you but...here is a site where they tell people to go..you can get free reports.

I've been coming in here for about 3 weeks, have posted my stuff a few times and had no responses, So maybe this will help, in that case.
http://www.astro.com/

posted November 09, 2003 06:01 PM         

Yikes! I just realized something.

I am Sun Libra/Pisces Moon...Asc Sag..I am not sure if men and women are supposed to be similar or what the rest of the things mean, but I can tell you that I'm not like him.
Actually nothing on there is like me at all.

posted November 09, 2003 06:14 PM         

Cooking and cleaning is not love, it's caring for someone. That man is not your father, he is your husband and it's his duty to take care of himself. If you leave he will find a way to do that, by finding another woman as soon as possible. Ask yourself if you could live without having him in your bed every night, and if it would bother you if he slept with someone else. Do not live in denial.

if you don't care, then leave. There is NO excuse these days not to leave. Anyone will help you, do not be a victim of circustance.

He is a loser and a controlling jerk. Now, you can blame me for telling you, but you knew it already. When he leaves, if he asks if you are seeing someone else, say yes, myself!

and you can blame Nastasha if you want to, I can take it. Let him yell at me, in fact tell him to email me and harass me personally if it makes him feel better about the breakup.

Whatever you do, don't listen to him whine later, do not be his friend. A clean break is necessary for at least a year, don't contact him or let him contact you by phone. If he calls, do not answer.

Good Luck, for a Taurus kicking a relationship is like letting go of an addiction. It's almost as hard for a Taurus as a Scorpio since they like marriages and relationships so much. Think about how your relationship inspires others.

If you have time, please post the sign your asteriods, Juno, Pallas, Vesta and Ceres are in. I am very curious. My Juno and Pallas are in Capricorn in the 2nd, Vesta is in Gemini in the 7th and Ceres is in Aquarius in the 2nd.
You can find out at astro.com by going to the extended chart and choosing chart with asteriods.
If you need help reading your chart let me know, you can email me too at theinnerwoman@yahoo.com.

posted November 13, 2003 05:32 PM         

Here are my asteroids, even though I have no clue what any of it means:

Ceres: in Libra in the 12th house
Juno: in Scorpio in the 12th house
Vesta: in Aries in the 5th house
Pallas: in Virgo in the very full 11th house

You're right Natasha, us Taurus types put up with more crap for too long than anyone. My first long term relationship lasted 7 years which was 6 years too long. Interesting...this one is 7 years also, hmm.
I recently discovered that I am not a Libra asc, but a Scorp (never felt right about the Libra thing, so had it rectified professionally), so that's double hard to end anything. And I did use to care if he slept with someone else, but now, I'd almost welcome it.

Reading all of your responses and experiences, it makes me think about what abuse really is. I only defined it as being hit or screamed at. So I didnt put myself in that category. Is it abuse that he's doing? or neglect? Is there a difference?

I do realize that he's a jerk. He's so charming to other people that no one, including myself, notices the selfish way he consistently acts. And one of the reasons I haven't left is because I dont want to lose all the stuff I have again (like the last time I broke it off with someone), and that includes our puppy. These are just excuses I know. I think the process will have to be very small steps and very well planned so I don't screw myself in the process.

I hate relying on others to help me, so I'll have to get creative with my living plans.

Thanks again everyone, for sharing your stories and your sage advice.

Firestar, Im sure you're nothing like my husband. After all, you responded to me, a few times! And I think that Sag Asc makes you more of a humanitarian. And women and men are different in some aspects regarding signs, at least in my observations.

And about the internet guy...he's losing his luster in my eyes. Last thing I need is another man who needs everything to be about him and his wants! He is a good friend, and will most likely (unless HE comes to ME) will stay a friend.

I am going to sit down tonight, make a list (my Taurus is showing!!) of everything, big and small, that I desire in this life, then make plans to get it all! First thing, no excruciatingly painful family Thanksgiving this year. Im going to volunteer bringing food to needy families, something Ive always wanted to do!

posted November 14, 2003 05:52 PM         

I have been where you are. I think you are doing the right thing in making a list of what you want / need in life. My advice to you is to plan carefully and not for someone else.

I moved across the country to be with a man. I loved him with my whole heart. He was a good man, in many ways and we ended up getting married. Like you, there was no sex after the marriage, infact there was no sex within a month after I moved out East in 1998. I felt as though I was waiting on him hand and foot, doing the same thing as you, making his meals, doing his laundry. Money wasn't a problem because he was paid well and I had already been out of college for a few years and had a pretty good job.

I was worried about "just bailing out". I was also fortunate in that we hung out alot, but it became more like siblings than a couple. I started to plan my exit. I started to put money away and we talked about separating. Then I moved upstairs for almost a year and finally moved out. We had a pretty agreeable settlement and we're still friends.

I was lucky that I didn't have to deal with a man that made me take him to bars and be ignored. You know in your heart that there is a problem with your husband. It isn't right for him to love the dog and not you. He is trying to punish you for something and it's just not right.

I didn't tell my parents about my marital problems until a year before I moved out. My father was stunned but very supportive. He was stunned because I never acted like there as a problem. My mom and grandmother knew something was wrong, but waited for me to open up to them. You'll be surprised how supportive your family can actually be in a situation like this.

My thoughts are with you.

~Pidaua

posted November 17, 2003 05:17 PM         

How long did you all date before you got married? What sign is your Ex?

It is a terrible thing and I think that most women are kind of afraid to talk about it. For some reason society has accepted that only men are the ones that get cut off from sex. When it happens to a woman the first thing someone suggests is "well, what did you do wrong?"

What many don't understand is how hard it is for women to feel sexually neglected. It can take two forms, the absolute denial of sex and the usage of the woman for sex. Both leave the person feeling empty. I had a friend whose husband treated her like a whor*e. He would come home grab her in a sensitive area and say 'I want to fuc* right now". She hated him sexually.

On the other end is the man who can be so loving and caring, like my ex, but not have any sexual desire at all. So you start to think "What is wrong with me?"

posted November 17, 2003 06:48 PM         

I knew him, or I guess I should say I have known him WAY too long.
I started dating him when I was 15. By 16(I was a senior in high school) he talked me into giving up my virginity. That is something I will never forget...*s*...two songs in particular..."only the good die young" pressuring me into doing it...followed by none other than, "you're once, twice, three times a lady"

I discovered that I REALLY liked it. So we continued doing it...from then until the day we got married, Dec 25, 1982. I was 21. So I knew him for 6 years before we got married. We dated until the fall after I graduated and then we lived together until we got married. He was very aggressive sexually.
He, was, after all...a Scorpion. I'm still not sure why I married him. I had this undying love for him...I cared only about him and not about myself. Which is the lesson I know I am supposed to be learning in this life. Rev. Alice put my behavior into words that were perfect. "Altruism gone insane" That was me. I have a beautiful virgo son...that is my reward.

I knew we were together for a reason, that had to be the reason. So..anyway, I can't say that it was exactly the day after the wedding that things changed, but it was close to that time. He had always made this big deal out of how Marriage was going to be so different than living together had been.
I didn't feel that way. I loved him just the same, we'd lived together long enough that I felt there was no difference. Our assets were combined....we fought often, but we still always had sex. I hate to sound like a perv, but sex was and is very important to me.

He started to fall asleep on the couch every night. At first I would cry and beg him to come to bed. When he wouldn't, I would bring him a pillow and a blanket and sometimes even sleep on the floor next to him...crying myself to sleep. As time went on...I quit giving the the pillow and blanket...eventually I quit crying. Over the years it didn't change, we would have sex occasionally. Usually after we'd been partying. Never on a regular basis, never more than a couple of times a month. I had plenty of offers...opportunities...to take care of my sexual needs with other men but I never considered it. The love I had for him seemed to be so deep that I thought I could just accept it.(I often wondered if he was gay)

Luckily...one day...before I was too old..thank goodness, a light came on in my
head. It was over for me. It felt good.

Oddly enough...when it was time for him to leave, he came to my room and asked.."Could we make love one more time, please"

I had to laugh...It was so bizarre.

SO...I have decided that for as long as I live I will NOT allow myself to be in a relationship where there is no sex.

How rediculous is that? One partner decides they are no longer interested in sex so the other has to do without? Not in MY house.

posted November 18, 2003 12:58 AM         

Sometimes we need a break sexually to feel more human, but it's not good to go too long. I think a lover can want so much control over the love act that they give completely because it's won't be perfect, since they can't perfect something in their life. A person needs to feel they have power in their life and for some people it's always personal power of some kind.

It's a call for perfection, being better at sex, unfortunately we do not always share our head trips but keep them to ourselves. I used to have this weird thing about leaving part of my clothes on during sex since I'm such a prude. I wanted that control, without it I wouldn't agree. Now I think that's really controlling not because it is so rigid but because it was something I did not communicate, I just did it without any discussion. That must of made my partner feel unwanted or at least confused.

posted November 18, 2003 10:29 AM         

As far as the ex goes. That couldn't have been it with him. He actually has a huge ego and when we did have sex it was always about him. Believe it or not...in the 20 plus years we were to gether I never...not even one single time ..errr...well, you know what I mean. He always would. Then he was done.

I can look back at it now and talk about it but when it was happening it wasn't something I would ever even dream of mentioning to any one. I felt like it was an insult, a direct reflection of whatever it was that was terribly wrong with me. Not even for a second did I stop loving him because of it. The years went by and I just got used to not doing it. When the marriage was over....and I had a chance to see what it was really supposed to be like...It was awesome.

I like to leave parts of my clothes on too.
*s*
I don't think that is weird.

posted November 18, 2003 10:32 AM         

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Natasha *smile*
Thank you so much for replying. I was hoping you could tell me more....about anything and everything, if you would, please.
I saw your email addy on another thread and I will email you when time permits.

I like your direct way of speaking.

Also...If I am correct, we both have Asc Sag.

I thought maybe you could give me some information on that.

I agreed with your analysis. There is a reason and we have been working on figuring out what the problem is. So thank you!

posted November 18, 2003 12:34 PM         

How odd, my friend married a Scorp (she is one too) and he is the one that would treat her like a who*re. She just couldn't like sex with him and he used it as a control over her.

I know what you mean about not ever getting into another relationship without sex. Both partners have to be on the same level and want the same things. Even if both are highly sexed, their style also needs to match. You can't put someone that likes long sessions of slowly making love in with someone that is done is two minutes and moves on. One will start to pull away or get disgusted. I know on a non-intercourse level I get like that. I dated a guy that was very smothering and kissed so quickly it grossed me out. I would even kiss him again.

At any rate. I have found someone that has the same sexual style as me. He is open, adventerous and takes time in pleasing. Some guys say they want to please a woman, but they have no clue, even when you show them. Not him, he enjoys pleasing.

posted November 18, 2003 06:14 PM         

He may be lying to himself, or feel the whole world is down on him. It could be a physical condition, anxiety is a physical condition. Feeling not good enough is a physical condition, that we all have at some point but it can get out of bounds.

What is your take on him speaking honestly, as if you were a sexual therapist and not his lover? Once in a while we have to be objective and it hurts but we have to face what we are dealing with so we can live our lives. (Meaning You not him) It's easy to live in an alternate reality, and that's okay but some can cause pain if the other does not want to be there. Sometimes all one needs is a kick in the butt to realize somebody cares enough.

Natasha

posted November 19, 2003 09:58 PM         

Everytime I get a little hope, and think I can pull myself out of my situation, I get slammed from all sides, basically told to go back to the rock that I crawled out from.

Today I was reading your stories of love and loss, and I realized....I've never really had a love relationship. Never asked on a date, proposed to haphazardly twice, had alot of sex but never made love, and now feelings of hopelessness and depression are overwhelming to me.

I don't know if it's this never ending November rain that sparked it, or just some bigger entity telling me "this is it, kid, this is the best you can hope for". I just can't feel anything. I'm so tired of scrambling for some shred of attention, giving whatever is asked of me and then being left behind. And this doesn't happen online, in chat. Im the belle of the ball with all kinds of attention according to the conversation I have. But in real life, nothing, so I'm assuming it's the way I look that turns people away.

Can anyone tell me if this is just a rough patch, astrologically? I just don't know what to do.

posted November 19, 2003 10:32 PM         

No, no don't think like that at all. Remember, love hits us when it is time. Hell, I am going to be 34 and I finally found out what Love is really about.

Love also comes in many forms. I now know what being in a love relationship is about, but I always LOVED deeply - like my family, animals, music. Love is everywhere, and this is coming from a cynical Saggie!!!

Being slammed back into that hole, that is what happens when we are AFRAID. Kat, it is so hard to break free because surrendering is a part of our human nature when we are afraid. You are strong. I can see it in your words. You have already sought help and in a sense made up your mind about what to do.

I know where you are because I was soooo heartbroken when my ex husband wouldn't touch me. I felt emotionally abandoned and I was so incredibly alone. I even felt suicidal in a way - like I could just disappear and no one would care. I moved my life from Orange Co, California to Annapolis, MD. I left everyone I ever knew for him.

When I hit the emotional bottom, I threw myself into my work and through that I began to travel, attend conferences, meet people. I took more trips out west, where I am from, and it made me realize just how strong I really was.

Take the pain in your heart and embrace it, don't deny it. Then look it straight in the eye and tell yourself that you can do this. You are stronger than this.

If you ever need to talk, my e-mail is pidaua@aol.com. If you ever need to get out and get away, I am only a few hours away in Maryland. I know how hard things can be but you are strong and you can do this!!!

My heart is with you. I will be checking this forum periodically over the next week. I have to leave tomorrow to fly out west to see my family.

Take care,

~Pidaua

Also, astrologically speaking, you have a Virgo moon. Things can't be feeling too great with Pluto, Venus, Eros, Psyche and Mercury all in Sagittarius squaring your emotions. Then we have Mars and Uranus in Pisces adding to the tension with the opposition. Neptune is in Aquarius, squaring your sun as well. Your hubby might also be feeling that Saturn in Cancer square against his Sun.