posted January 17, 2004 04:35 PM         

Scorp moon~"Hm. Look at that body language.. he's leaned completely to that side of the chair with his legs crossed towards her. And just LOOK at the way she is giving him f#%k-me eyes"

Sag sun~"oh don't worry. He's just being friendly. You know he makes friends with women much more easily than men. (Much to the annoyance of my moon) He LOVES you. Stop being a jealous freak."

Moon~ "Yeah well, now we've returned to our seat next to him at the bar and he hasn't turned away from her. He's laughing and giving her that smile..you know..the one you can't resist. It's like we aren't even here."

Sun~ "He's drunk. You know that this boyish innocence takes him over when he's tipsy. He is probably oblivious to how he is flirting. Calm down. He's going home with you. Jealousy is ugly. Stop it."

*Scorpio moon needs to be restrained from punching annoying woman with f*^k-me eyes and grabbing Hari in a beastial embrace just to mark my territory*

Interesting side note- at about this point an extremely lovely drunk woman of about 50 walks up to me to inform me that her friend, whom complimented my dancing earlier, REALLY likes me and that he's a great guy and I should go for it cause I'll definetly get some sex if that's what I'd like. I find this oddly appropriate and use it to reassure myself that it's only just that Hari and I are two very beautiful people that can't help but allure others.
I also conclude that this is a good time to leave. Even though Hari had been speaking to this woman for a good half an hour or so, he doesn't introduce us, which is alittle unusual for him. But then, he IS drunk I say to myself.

Soo. Fast forward to Wednsday night. Hari goes out with a guy friend of his. I can't go. No babysitter. He stays out until about 4AM. He works at 5AM. I can't get to sleep until about 3:30 because my moon is freaking out..I have extreme irrational fears that Hari has driven off a cliff or been arrested. (He's driving my truck which doesn't have up to date registration yet). Ever since Jeff died, I have an awful habit of imagining the worst possible scenarios of death. It's something I need to work on. I remember getting so upset around 1 or 2 am that I started crying because I felt so helpless. No way to get in touch with him. I also felt suddenly quite angry. He said he was going to be home at 11 or midnight at the latest cause he was tired and needed some sleep before work. So I wake up when I hear him come home..looked at the clock. It was about 4:20am. He did't come upstairs. Just milled about and then left for work.

After work he went to school and then came home and went to bed. It wasn't until yesterday that I noticed the hickey on his neck. As soon as I saw it my heart jumped straight up into my throat and my stomach churned painfully. "Did I really just see that? He's wearing a higher collared shirt than usual." I had noticed that earlier in the day. It was a shirt I'd never seen him wear before. Now, I KNOW I didn't give him that thing on his neck. We hadn't made love in a week because I'd begun my moon cycle. I didn't say anything for several hours because I was running so many different scenarios over in my head. Did I suck on his neck in my sleep? Did he get some strange wound in Akido class that day? Did he have weird time delay skin that gets hickeys a week after they've been administered?
I thought of every crazy scenario I could to explain it to myself in an attempt to just go back to that blissful happy in love place I'd been in before seeing IT.

Of course I knew that they were ridiculous thoughts. My moon whispered in my ear that it all made sense now. Staying out till past 4 when the bars are closed by 2. He never did tell me where he went for those extra couple hours when I'd asked him about his night. He was wearing that high collared shirt for the first time in 6 months. And I had felt some unfamiliar tremors in his aura that day. He would look at me with sad watery eyes that seemed to be holding something behind them unspoken. The unusual looks had increased since I'd noticed the hickey. I knew that he knew I knew something was up. And yet I felt paralyzed to say anything. I thought that if I distracted myself with a book or a movie that I would snap out of this darkly surreal dream state and there would be no hickey. But as the night wore on and I caught better looks at it I could no longer deny what it was and that I'd not given it to him. We went to bed with the tension unbroken. I tossed and turned and finally.. with GREAT effort.. (it was as if my voice had been locked up, shut tight in a box and I had to struggle to find the key) I said, in the darkness of the night, "So, where did you get that bruise on your neck?"
Silence.
It spoke volumes.
He said that he'd been struggling for a way to tell me but just didn't know how to bring it up. I said it would have been better if he'd not forced me to question him. Even after I'd realized what it was and drew the inevitable conclusion that he'd fooled around with someone else I was tempted not to say anything at all in order to see if he would tell me himself. It came down to the fact that I couldn't sleep until this was addressed, however. If I'd waited until the next day my emotions would have festered to a painful degree and may have ended up exploding. He apologized and said he would have told me sooner rather than later but he was still pretty freaked out about the whole thing and hadn't mustered the courage yet. I told him it was time to do that Shambala warrior thing he's been learning about at that Buddist school of his and be present for what ever was to come, no matter how painful.
As it was, I felt unusually calm.. Well perhaps calm isn't the right word...my insides are all twisted up in knots and I'm terribly confused and hurt and angry but much to my surprise I'm not falling apart in tears or yelling in anger and neither was I last night in bed. He was weeping though.

Turns out that he and his buddy went out to a different bar and that woman from the show on Saturday night was there. She approached him and joined them at their table. He got REALLY way too drunk and ended up going home with her and having sex.

*shudder*

I wept abit for what has been lost between us. The purity of our love seems tainted now. And yet.. I cannot help but remain deeply in love with him.
I have some unusual ideas about love. It was only last spring, before reaquainting with Hari in June, that I thought I was polyamorous. Before Jeff died we were having alot of problems in our relationship and toyed with the idea of asking him what he would think about us seeing different people while still remaining togther. It was that I loved him very much but he didn't fulfill me in every way that I needed to be fulfilled. I started becoming cynical that there was anyone in the world that could be there for me in every way I needed to be with a lover. Mentally, spiritually and physically. Every man I'd ever been with had fallen short in one area or another. I doubted any man could be so completing for me. After Jeff died my cynicism grew and I distrusted love. Giving myself completely to one person seemed too scary and I proceeded to conclude that I was polyamorous. I'd never heard the term before but did a search on the net to see if others felt the same and found a whole underground culture of polyamorous folks. Of course it's much easier in theory than practice and became involved with a man who felt the same.. he was seeing another woman in addition to me. It was intense but only lasted a couple months for various reasons. I'd found that my Scorpio moon grew jealous and possessive and I couldn't keep such feelings in check. I planned on talking to Che about such things but since we only saw eachother about once a week and I started traveling abit, I never mentioned it. Instead I ran into my old friend Hari back home in Alaska and fell crazy in love and found my previous theories proven wrong and blown to the wind. He completes me and fulfills me in body, mind and soul. I was utterly convinced that he felt the same up until last night.

I questioned him. I do not doubt that he loves me dearly and I know that he wants to build a life with my son and I. He said he's not disatisfied with our relationshiip, quite the contrary, he is very happy and he's not feeling trapped. I worried that he may stay with me out of some obligation to my son- I can see how much he loves him and because he doesn't want to hurt us. He said that isn't the case. I asked him if he still desires to be with other women despite his love for me. I've told him all about my polyamorous theories..a part of me still isn't convinced that humans are inherently monogamous creatures and that we only set ourselves up for pain by pretending we are. Before he was with me, he was with a woman for 6 years. He'd broken up with her only about 7 months before he and I got together. Before that 6 year relationship he'd only been single for a month after breaking up with his first girlfriend. So, since he's started dating, he's only been single for about 8 months- he's 27 now. I was concerned that he needed more time to be unattached and sow some wild oats before settling into such a domestic situation as we've created. Heck, I've slept with twice as many people as he has.. I've explored and experienced much sexually and that is why I know that I'm ready to commit myself fully to him and I have no desire to be with anyone else. I did tell him that if exploration is what he needs than perhaps we need to address that. Of course my moon is screaming at me that I can't possibly share him with anyone else. My saggi self is saying 'buuut, you know what they say about the bird in the cage. It must be allowed to fly free. True it may not return. Yet if it does, then you know it was meant to be. or something like that.'
So as I basically tell him that I'm willing to work out an unorthodox situation if that's what it takes to make our love stay, he begins weeping more. No, he said that he really doesn't want to sleep with other women and then come home to me. *big sigh of relief* I said that's not what I really want either.

I told him that I can forgive him. He's not sure if he can forgive himself. It's strange. I've been with *many* lovers and I haven't had to deal with being cheated on since my very first one. I knew that he cheated because he was curious about being with other people, because we were sexually immature teenagers and he wasn't satisfied with our relationship. I couldn't forgive him for that even after he begged me to take him back.. After that most horrid and painful experience I imagined that I would never be able to move forward in a relationship after being cheated on. This is why my mind finds it so strange that my heart is quite willing to forgive and move forward. If the circumstances had been different..like it had been a friend that he'd developed a relationship with on the side behind my back it would probably be different. As it is, it was with a virtual stranger whom he will likely never see again and he's visibly regretful and hurting about this. In some ways I think this may make our relationship stronger. I don't know why exactly yet but that's what my intuition is telling me. If this experience has taught me anything, it's that a womans intuition is not something to be disregarded. Mine was spot on the whole time.

posted January 17, 2004 07:35 PM         

I still can't help but be really freaked out by this whole situation. Even though I feel like we are dealing with this in a healthy and mature way, I am feeling incredibly uncertain as to what the long term outcome of this will be. Only time will tell I suppose.

posted January 17, 2004 09:02 PM         

Don't know if you've ever read any of my posts, but if you have, you'd know I'm rather complicated in matters of love & sex. So nothing of what you said is strange to me at all.

My deal right now, and coming here for support, in that I've never wanted to be married and now I'm ready. But I cannot see myself in a completely traditional marriage.

Since your circumstances with your son changes things, I'm not sure how far you can go with an open lifestyle. And I know what you mean when you describe the freaky ways the mind works when justifying jealousy. I still talk to women who cannot imagine feeling anything BUT jealousy for every little thing. But maybe those women have a better handle on their emotions in a way.

For us with intense water influences, being in a relationship which BONDS US but also encourages us to retain our independence may be the perfect medium. That's where I'm at right now... I'm looking more for a brotherly/soumate/romantic/friendship kind of husband, rather than having my breath sucked out of me due to overwhelming passion.

I'm Libra with Cancer Moon. I have Mercury, Mars and Neptune in Scorpio. My Venus in Virgo can help here, but it's nicer to have someone who can relate to both the cerebral Libra and Virgo side as well as my foreboding, passionate and intense Scorpio side. Guess he's a rare find indeed.

As for the guy you're with, this is just me and MY freaky way. If it really really hurt me, I would not be able to truly forget about it. I'll always resent him. If I somehow get a little turned on by it (doesn't mean I have to APPROVE of it or ALLOW it), then I can live with it, but he'll have to be ready to deal with a short-term 3rd party playfulness on my part eventually.

Cuz like I say... what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

.gloria

posted January 18, 2004 12:44 AM         

Yes actually I have read a fair number of your posts.. I don't post there much but I do frequent the astology forum. Your fount of astro knowledge and interesting take on love/romance matters has not gone unnoticed.

quote:

---

..with intense water influences, being in a relationship which BONDS US but also encourages us to retain our independence may be the perfect medium..

---

quote:

---

looking more for a brotherly/soumate/romantic/friendship kind of husband, rather than having my breath sucked out of me due to overwhelming passion

---

Harpyr- November 27, 1978 @ 6.37 PM in Fairbanks Alaska

Hari- November 9, 1976 @ 3.56 PM in Fairbanks, Alaska

This might prove interesting to you, I'm not sure. I think it's sigficant that Hari and Jeff have conjunct moon signs to within one degree..

Jeff- February 25, 1969 @ 6.13 AM in North Norwich, New York

posted January 18, 2004 12:44 AM         

quote:

---

If it really really hurt me, I would not be able to truly forget about it. I'll always resent him.

---

I do feel very hurt by this and I have to admit, depending on how things proceed from here, there is a risk that I may develop resentments that won't go away. I am trying *really* trying to avoid this though and so far we are off to a good start. I wouldn't say our communication is perfect but I think it is better than average, certainly better than I've ever had with anyone else. Sharing feelings and working through them togther is important. I don't think I will ever forget about it. I don't generally forget anything people do that affects me profoundly on an emotional level. But I do manage to find ways to understand where hurtful behavior originates and forgive if said person is aware of how their actions hurt me and don't do it again. I give first, maaaybe second chances but 3 strikes and yer out...generally.
I wouldn't say I was turned on by Hari boning some other woman..but I do understand how powerful attraction can be and the nature of the relationship a drunk person has with readily available temptation. Though I've never gone all the way as far as cheating is concerned but I have come extremely close. I can't say with certainty that under certain circumstances I would be able to resist temptation of great magnitude. The wierd thing ..a difference between men and women perhaps.. is that the great temptation would never be someone I had just met whilst having the kind of love I do back home waiting for me. The *only* way the temptation could be great enough for me would be if it were one of a few certain persons that I aleady knew and had established a friendship with underlying attraction with...and enough inebriation to slacken my moral consciousness' awareness of the situation. So, yeah.. I think that difference is weird.

oh yeah..when I suggested to Hari that I'd be willing to explore unorthodox possibilies and he said that he didn't want that.. I wondered how much of his distaste for that possiblity had to do with knowing of that particular stipulation unspoken but definetly implied..

quote:

---

what's good for the goose is good for the gander..

---

posted January 18, 2004 06:49 AM         

I hope I've helped a bit.

posted January 18, 2004 12:55 PM         

Your words make a great deal of sense. I think you are right.

quote:

---

Did you ask him why? I mean, really WHY. He must have a reason even though he may not be aware of it yet or isn't ready to admit it.

---

The thing is.. I have the feeling that he doesn't fully understand for himself WHY he did this. I think his confusion regarding his own motivations may be largly contributing to his own pain. although..I'm uncertain about that.. He genuinely is one of the absolute most compassionate people I've ever met. I have to wonder if his feelings of guilt have anything to do with the principal of the matter and simply more to do with the fact that he is quite sensitive to my pain.
I know for a fact that he is often confused about what he wants in life, regarding career and such. I just didn't think that confusion/indecision involved matters of his heart as well. He has always seemed so sure of himself in matters of love..ardent and self-assured like he has no doubt of who he loves, even before we were togehter.

Other than a kiss, I know he was never unfaithful to his ex-fiance whom he was with for 6 years. I knew him then and could see how devoted he was to her; in my presence ( I had the most IMMENSE crush on him..) he never behaved in any way that was disrespectful to the fact that he was in love with her. On difference between then and now is alcohol. He drank very little when he was with her and stopped altogether for the last two years of their relationship. It was only after they broke up that he began drinking again. I wouldn't go so far as to say he has a drinking problem (*yet*)..I used to drink quite alot before I had my son, much more than he drinks now- very much flirting with alcoholism myself. I recognize what that looks like and he's not there.
But I do think the alcohol brought up issues that perhaps he didn't even know existed and certainly must be addressed if this is to work out.

quote:

---

There is a reason you find someone else attractive and want to sleep with them. If he's in love with you and wants to be with you, he shouldn't feel sexually attracted to other people. If you are attracted to someone else, that means you lack something in your relationship

---

posted January 18, 2004 01:02 PM         

that's sort of why I said, "What's good for the goose..."

Your water intensity is naturally very loyal, and all I'm saying is watch for a reflex action on your part. (I go through this too - I think in a previous life I waited like 7 years for someone to return to the proverbial ranch while he was in some war)...

If you are being loyal expecting the same in return, and he's not loyal, your resentment will increase and you'll be angry with yourself. If he is aware of the type of emotionally intense woman you are, then he would not have cheated on you like that. He would have respected, at the very least, your feelings and not have made the whole thing so f'ing obvious.

Again if it was me, I would openly play with someone in front of him if I had the urge, and let him feel whatever he's going to feel. Yeah, it's a defense mechanism, in order to create some distraction in the relationship and MATCH HIS emotional detachment one for one. Hey, if he cannot match your emotional intensity and loyalty...

There is not doubt that you two have a phenomenal connection and I grant you all of that. Just watch your expectations. As for being worried about mixing your emotions with other painful times in your life, I've been through some sh**, trust me. And the way I dealt with being responsible for those mixed feelings was to feel them which ever way they came out. DON'T try to compartmentalize or intellectualize them. Just be aware, but don't be apologetic.

Also agree with Lilith in that you need to ask him why. Again, I think that like me you are hesitant to be overwhelmed and carried away by your feelings. I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from. But the only way you will feel good about them is if you do not suppress them and get deep to the dark center of it and THEN ask yourself, what the origin of the fear is. It's usually an "inner child" issue.

Whatever feelings you don't understand will ultimately control you.

Also, one of the greatest lines I read recently in a really good book on the psychology of men was, "With men, everything has to do with sex, except sex."

Hmmmm... interesting, eh?

If you're interested, it's "If Men Could Talk" by Gratch

with love & support,

.gloria

posted January 18, 2004 01:06 PM         

Is that your UserName because you know a little about all the Lilith's? I have a HUGE mystery I'm working on regarding that. I've read a ton of stuff, but still need input.

Thanks,

.gloria

posted January 18, 2004 01:10 PM         

1:06pm

posted January 18, 2004 04:32 PM         

I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound cynical and unforgiving, but I've been there, and I don't tolerate that. I believe that if you just let it go, it's only sending the message that it's ok. If it were me, the relationship would be terminated, at least until he gets his priorities straight.

Or, we'd have a new open-bed policy in the relationship that goes both ways. In that case, it's not really a relationship based on intimacy and love, but rather, a plutonic comradery. Like brother/sister stuff. If that's ok with you, then ok. It wouldn't be ok with me. And you probably don't WANT to sleep with other men because YOU LOVE him, and therefore, only want to sleep with him. So what's his excuse?

*editing has occured due to second thoughts, and reconsideration of the esoteric implications* cough

posted January 18, 2004 04:32 PM         

I read what you wrote and I wanted to write you a longer reply tomorrow, but I really feel for you and I wanted to give you some support right now, for what it's worth. I think you don't really need any advice, it seems to me you know all you need to know. You probably need the therapy of talking to others about it to help clear your thoughts and process, like you say, your emotions. Which I understand well and I really hope it helps. After reading your posts I believe you have enough depth to look inside you and Hari to find out the truth and I get the feeling you're not the kind to hide your head in the sand, so I really admire your courage in what seems to me one of the worst kind of pain one can experience in a relationship. In my opinion, only after you find out the real truth, how each of you really feels, things can be discussed and forgiven and you can move on. You know, Harpyr, maybe he's just afraid. Different people have different ways of expressing their fears. But these are all just guesses, so I think you're right to insist on talking about it - the more, the better. Talking is the best therapy, it creates better understanding and it creates a bond. Especially for your Scorpio Moon it is best to bring your emotions to the surface because otherwise they just grow inside you and possess you, and your dark thoughts become fixed ideas. But I imagine you know all that. Harpyr, I wish you all the strength in the world when you face your fear, and to paraphrase one of my favourite sayings: where there's love, there's a way.

Blessed Be

*

hi to everyone else

*

posted January 18, 2004 04:37 PM         

I have been where you are at, and I truly do know how it feels. The one line that continues to soothe me is:

"God counts a woman's tears."

Wrapping you in ribbons of love and light, my dear.

posted January 18, 2004 05:26 PM         

Denying your Scorpion parts? Nah, you've been given a chance to be the Eagle, the Phoenix, rather than the scorpion. You can soar.

I'm a little older than most of those responding, which doesn't necessarily mean wiser, but maybe, I'm someone with a different perspective. Take it for what it's worth, but remember it's just a perspective. I'm not telling anyone how to live or love.

Are humans meant to be monogamous? At the risk of being flamed by those here whom I love, I doubt it. One has only to look at history to know that we are disinclined towards fidelity. Some come by it more naturally than others. In general, women more so than men. But also in general, despite an indiscretion, men stay with the women they love.

Sex does not equal love. Anyone can have sex, many many have it without love. Sometimes one has it with love, while her (or his) partner has it without love.

Trouble is, it is the means by which we also express our deepest love. So things, or rather our emotions, get muddy with love and sex.

I too have that dream that I will meet The One and Only and that our souls will merge forever in bliss, that neither of us will ever stray because we fulfill in each other all we need, and remain happy forever and ever. Now. How many couples do you know who are like that for all their lives, till they're 99?

Is a relationship stronger than an infidelity? Only you can decide that, only you can follow what's in your heart. But I believe that if you want it to be, yes, your relationship can be stronger despite an infidelity.

You want a guarantee that it will never happen again? There are no guarantees of that sort in this life. Will the next man with whom you fall in love be better? There are no guarantees of that either.

We live, we love, we don't want to be alone, we're fragile. Life is short, love more, have more sex, smell more flowers. Forgive more, it feels better than holding on to being unforgiving. That doesn't necessarily mean keeping him. You and he will figure that out.

It's not simple. It's complicated, love is often complicated. But if we go through life believing that everyone we meet is a soulmate of sorts, sent to share our lives and perhaps give us an opportunity for growing and learning, then we have to believe these situations come for a reason too.

I know you are in pain, I know this is not easy and I have so much compassion for you.
I admire that you are trying to examine and analyze your feelings and the situation, that you are trying to be objective, because that's so damn hard when love hurts. Pixel is right, you may never completely understand the reasons for his infidelity, he may never understand them himself. But it happened, and now what you both want together is all that matters. I hope you find a loving resolve.

posted January 18, 2004 07:53 PM         

I also believe that this is one of the most devastating things that one person can do to another person.

Call me monstrously old fashioned, but for me, infidelity is a "deal breaker, " to quote "Dr. Phil."

A lot of you that live outside of America may not know of him, but he is a therapist in this country who is very fond of using that term when it comes to relationships and their varied interactions, lol.

Obviously, I cannot tell you what to do, because it is your own life to live and your own choice to make.

But like lioneye, I would definitely think twice before I'd resume the relationship just the way it was again.

The following is the part I have SO much trouble with where infidelity is concerned.

If he ever felt that he was getting this close to cheating on you, then WHY DIDN'T HE TELL YOU BEFORE he went out and had an "indiscretion" like this one?

That's what I don't get about it all.

It's fine if people are starting to feel attracted to other people in a way that they feel they could be capable of crossing the line very soon, but they should TELL THEIR PARTNER about that before something like this happens to their relationship because of it.

I do feel that if they do, that perhaps the cheating can be avoided by TALKING IT OUT with their partner when these feelings and this confusion arises.

Not to mention that there is the virtue of truth and honesty that's involved in all of this too.

I mean, I am with lioneye on the point of all of this not being totally unplanned in the sense that I just can't believe that he hasn't had the thoughts about cheating BEFORE this night came about.

Even if he didn't make concrete plans to meet this woman at the bar beforehand that night, he HAD to know that he was being tempted by something lately.

I just can't believe that he didn't know that he was having the desire to stray before he walked into the bar and started talking to this woman, that's all.

I don't know, I know it's not the greatest thing to have to hear from your partner, the words, "I am having a hard time staying focused on you and only you in this relationship right now" but...

I would MUCH rather hear words like that then the ones which say, "I cheated with the girl at the bar last night."

That's just my preference there.

I am BIG on truth and honesty.

Anyways...

on the monogamy question, I think this long quote about it is very interesting myself...

"Each one must choose how they will experience life.
I think to say 'open' and 'marriage' is to contradict oneself.

The meaning of marriage, as I have perceived it,
is that it is the coming together
with integrity and commitment,
to honor the God within each other
and to foster the greatest possible growth.
How an open marriage can contribute to this
I fail to see.
It scatters the focus that belongs to the one.

No, I am not puritanical.
Where there is a proclivity to intermingle
with others outside your marriage,
I say that is entirely up to you.
But be aware
that you are dissipating a great treasure.

When you dissipate it,
it is not only that you give less
but you also receive less.
One does not receive an ounce more
than one gives
so ultimately what you are doing
is denying yourself
the abundance you seek in many places
rather than building it in one.

Now, if a marriage itself is not compatible
then I don't know what you would be doing there
in the first place.
If you have joined in union and find
that you have grown in different directions,
well, hooray for both of you.
Be blessed and joyous
and move to more compatible surroundings.
But where there is a commitment
and the commitment wishes to remain so,
I cannot see why that is not enough."

I really, really like that quote about it all.

Monogamy is a great challenge, but it can reap abundant rewards and gains for human beings though.

I also believe that monogamy is the most intense and beneficial romantic bond of love that one human being can have with another human being in this life.

Must be my own die hard romantic Pisces Moon at work there, lol...

Just my own two cents about it as always though...

GOOD LUCK, HARPYR!

posted January 18, 2004 10:00 PM         

I am sorry if I sound judgemental here, because I really don't mean to do that.

You are right though, there is ALWAYS a reason for whatever we do, because as "Dr. Phil" also says, ( lol, maybe I need to go on his payroll soon ), WE ONLY DO WHAT WORKS.

If we didn't get some PAYOFF from what we do, we wouldn't do it at all.

So, what was it about this night that made Hari want to risk everything he has with Harpyr?

That's the question that I think needs to be gotten to the bottom of BEFORE they can just forgive and go on from it.

Or else, why wouldn't it all just happen all over again, since the root cause was never actually gotten to the bottom of in the first place to begin with?

Something like this can't just be swept under the rug and forgotten about, because doing that doesn't solve the root problem in the relationship at all.

Anyone involved in a relationship can be attracted to another person for a brief time, especially if they ARE going through a rough time due to astrology etc...

but...

there are those who follow through on that attraction, and those who do not.

So what allows some to hold their word about staying faithful in place, while others cannot keep their own word about in turn?

The most obvious reason to me is an immaturity on the part of the one who strays.

And if they are obviously not mature and ready to give to their relationship all that a relationship entails, like fidelity, then they need to be true about that fact to their partner.

That's all I'm saying.

Sure, Hari may have difficult transits going on, so he must have been feeling their effects in some way before he went out and did that.

And, in my opinion, he could, and should, have been honest about what he was feeling before he went out and did that to her.

If you can't be faithful, then at least be honest about it before you go and do it.

I just don't get why people think that "just because something feels good, then do it" should prevail if they have people at home who will be so crushed because of what they are doing with another person.

I DON'T care about whom people sleep with when they are NOT in another relationship and they are therefore free and totally consenting to do whatever they want to do...

nor do I even care if they sleep with another person when they are in an open relationship since their partner already KNOWS about it in that case too...

but when it's done behind the back of their partner in dishonesty and with disrespect of their partner's wishes that way...

then THAT'S what I personally can't take about the whole thing.

As for looking at both sides to see what is the cause in these cases, I respect your point, but I still say that no matter what the wronged party is doing or not doing in any relationship, that doesn't excuse the other person who lies and strays from their obligation to be honest with you if they are not being satisfied with things the way they are.

Harpyr is free to do as she wishes in this particular case, so I will give her this piece of advice that I recalled while I was away from here a little while ago...

I really love these next words because they cut to the heart of things and make them simple for me and here they are...

"If I always know how to treat myself with self-respect, then I won't ever need to question my decisions about men."

If we feel enough respect for ourselves from within, then we won't wonder about what the right or wrong thing to do in a situation is, because that inner sense of what is honorable treatment and what is not honorable treatment from a man will be our inner guide about what to do.

Harpyr is obviously going to do what she's going to do.

So, I just hope that her decision is made with all of the self-respect from within her which she possesses.

LIGHT AND LOVE TO EVERYONE!

posted January 18, 2004 11:11 PM         

I also wanted to say that if anyone is interested in a bit of background information... this posting is from when Hari and I got together this summer..

Say something nice about Scorpios

My contribution is towards the top of page 3.