posted May 25, 2007 06:06 PM         

I will get back to you with some "positive" stuff about Neptune/Venus/Merc conj in VII to make up for that disconcerting Lizzie stuff Liz is not for the faint of heart As much as I love her writing, I do NOT take it as complete Astro-Gospel. She presents ONE psychologist's take on the trait (oh dear, we don't have to have a discussion on what a "trait" is, do we?? )

I have a book by Bil Tierney on Neptune that is FABULOUS and very very empowering and encouraging!!! I'll see if I have Neptune in VII scanned.....

posted May 25, 2007 07:09 PM         

I was reading that thread in Astrology about the different types of relationships. I think mine could be one of two. Either the counselor/counselee or the self-reliant.

quote:

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The next relationship typing is what I call the self-sufficient typing. The self-sufficient type of relationship is an archetype in which both individuals have learned how to identify and meet their own needs. The resulting attitude of such people becomes one wherein each will feel that they are in the relationship simply because they want to be: not because of what the other can do for them.

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This is where I feel I'm coming from. I absolutely don't feel any compulsion to be in a relationship, but I'm in it because I feel like it.

I'm not sure where my girlfriend is coming from exactly. Being a Sag, she's certainly somewhat or mostly self-reliant. She has said that she wishes someone would just take care of her for a year or so, but she knows that I don't have the means to do that. I don't think I counsel her much if I do at all. She's asked me why I don't confront her when she's feeling like she's being a jerk, and I tell her it's because that would seem [to me to be] condescending if I were to do that. I look at her as being stressed in those moments, and I don't want to try to invalidate that stress. I would like her to love herself more, but I don't think that's something you can teach someone.

I do wonder what she'd be like if she were completely confident, though. Would she still be into me? That I have no idea about. My instincts say, "Yes," because she seems to treasure my uniqueness. Would it matter to me? If she were to suddenly feel content with herself, and leave me would I be hurt? To what degree? I'm really not sure about these questions, because it's a much different relationship than I'm used to. It's more friendly than passionate, and we do give each other a lot of space.

So I don't know the answers to all these questions, and I don't really feel like there's a rush to find these answers. I don't think her and I are at a crisis point or anything. The relationship doesn't feel threatened to me.

posted May 25, 2007 07:23 PM         

quote:

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There always comes a point when you do realize how much you had deluded yourself. the wakeup moment comes pretty early after a breakup. especially in such cases it is the other person who is able to see the truth sooner than the neptune influenced person, and breaks away, leaving the neptune person bewildered and confused as to what went wrong. so if u see that kind of a pattern with your past relationships, then it might be something to worry about.

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Yeah, I have experienced that in the past, but those experiences were also tied to being with someone I was overly passionate about (mostly Cancers). Cancers and I always fall in love quickly, but it never ever works out in the end.

This is my first relationship with a Sag, and it's quite a bit different than relationships with Cancers. Communicating is easier, and more friendly, less colored by feeling (in the Cancerian sense). This is more of a masculine relationship, than a couple of feminine signs getting together, so it's a bit drier. I think that's probably good for me. Keeps me a little more grounded and realistic where the relationship is concerned.

quote:

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I suspect its your virgo moon (does it square the neptune, btw?) getting worried over nothing.

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Are they square? Heck no! My Moon's at 29 degrees Virgo. Neptune is at 6 degrees Sag. They're actually sextiled with an orb of 6 degrees (6'29).

posted May 26, 2007 11:51 AM         

Patience is important as well...this is reassurance to her that you really care.
I won't stereotype Sags as all alike, but often with them it's a gradual opening, because once they surrender to the idea, almost like a child, they believe with their entire hearts so innocently. Guess I don't need to elaborate how crushing rejection can be in that stage of believing. It's entirely debilitating and can rock their entire faith on so many levels, because it sets of memories of all past hurts from all the times in their life they were innocently disillusioned, romantic or otherwise. All the past hurts culminate internally with the present one, forming an immobilizingly destructive loss of hope.

Don't mean to scare you, man. LOL
You're doing good, AG. It's really sweet how open,persistant, gentle and noncritical you're being with her.

posted May 26, 2007 12:37 PM         

quote:

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often with them it's a gradual opening, because once they surrender to the idea, almost like a child, they believe with their entire hearts so innocently. Guess I don't need to elaborate how crushing rejection can be in that stage of believing. It's entirely debilitating and can rock their entire faith on so many levels, because it sets of memories of all past hurts from all the times in their life they were innocently disillusioned, romantic or otherwise. All the past hurts culminate internally with the present one, forming an immobilizingly destructive loss of hope.

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posted May 26, 2007 06:17 PM         

It's interesting that you mention "reassurance," Lia because after our talk I asked her how she felt, and she said, "Reassured." That was cool.

I did go into my Neptune placement a little bit with her explaining how relationships might be my blind spot, and I illustrated a bit how that's manifested in the past, but I also let her know that she's a completely different type of personality than the personalities that I've had those issues with.

posted May 26, 2007 11:10 PM         

quote:

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i am quite paranoid, and i'm like 'now i've done it...i've wrecked everything.' every time i get angry, i'm like 'ohh **** , what did i do! now he's never going to talk to me again.' Sometimes, if the other person sounds a little different (which cud be due to a host of reasons like they r stressed, hurried etc etc) i always jump to the conclusion that they are angry with ME. this is because i had to watch out for when my parents were in a bad mood, especially my father. he used to take it out on us. i learnt to pick up cues and stay out of his way when he was upset. and i keep doing it. its a reflex. change in tone of voice= he's angry with me. and my heart sinks. it takes HUGE amounts of courage just to ask 'what's wrong?'.

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posted May 27, 2007 08:38 PM         

It's hardbreaking to be on the receiving end of this. Many times, no matter how much I care for him, he just pulls away, and now I'm starting to think, maybe it's time I give up. Not because I want to, but maybe that's part of my lesson, to meet and be with someone who wants to be with me, too, as this going back and forth is very difficult to hold onto.

It's hard. I don't know what to do. From your experience, what would you want or secretly hope your partner do in this scenario? Do you want to be left alone? That is the impression I'm getting from him. Should I give up or hang on? I'm about willing to do both if I knew which was for the best.

We have tried to break up twice already over this. We just have a hard time being apart. (We have Sun conj Saturn Venus NN connections in synastry)

posted May 28, 2007 08:22 AM         

But Yeah, I have to say that a fire moon is very volatile with a water sun. Actually, fire-anything is very tricky with a water sun. My dad has a Cancer sun/ Aries Mars like me.....yeah,no good in a man. To make matters worse he also had Leo in his chart as well (mercury conjunct pluto). So he's moody, hot tempered,selfish, and arrogant. Never cared about how he might be affecting the family because according to him, he has never been the problem.

arial33,

quote:

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It's hard. I don't know what to do. From your experience, what would you want or secretly hope your partner do in this scenario? Do you want to be left alone? That is the impression I'm getting from him. Should I give up or hang on? I'm about willing to do both if I knew which was for the best.

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posted May 28, 2007 02:10 PM         

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response, it really did speak to me. No matter how hard it seems, some people are worth holding on to, you are right. And as for the NN Venus connections, wow they really do pull you in, even when you try to escape it. LOL. Probably is time for that talk you mentioned.

posted May 28, 2007 10:50 PM         

Comica,

quote:

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Even if I often distance myself as I'm afraid of getting hurt or hurt the person I love, secretly, I hope that he would never give up nor abandon me.. I would want him to tell me that even those deepest scars can be healed, as long as we are together.. As long as we are together, we can be stronger together..

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posted June 04, 2007 12:26 PM         

I haven't had much time for anything these days. But I had started to write more to you a while back--about her esteem issues. Concerns that she may be confusing insecurities of things outside of her, as insecurities within herself. Is it really herself she doubts? Maybe she has faith in her abilities, but less in external outcomes. It just concerns me that she might be putting all that blame on herself, by confusing her fears. I don't know enough to say, the thought just entered my mind. Maybe when I actually finish it, I'll email it to you.

posted June 04, 2007 03:46 PM         

"Lia, this happened to me >>>"

awww {{{ }}}

have you moved beyond it?

yeah, me too, that's how I'm able to write about it. *blush*

It's like when you're healing from so many various things at once, and still in process of that, but going along strong nonetheless,
sometimes something happens, which even though it might not appear to be enough to shake you so intensly, somehow it suddenly triggers all that pain you've been carrying to surface and you find yourself faced with it all at once~ in a temporarily almost crippling battle with faith in love, in life, in humanity---in so many ways.

For all appearances it might seem to others that the one incident was the sole cause, but it's not so. It's so difficult to begin to explain all the whys and so you sink into a quiet isolation that doesn't know how to say all that's inside.

posted June 04, 2007 11:50 PM         

Yeah, communication is big between us. Good thing we both have Mercury in Sag. We do talk easily, and we do talk a lot. We still manage to have different perspectives a lot of the time, and we're enormously tangential.

The idea that she may be taking external things internally is kind of interesting. We were reading some astrological thing on her chart. Here it is, she really latched on to this when we came across it:

Internally, you are quite different from the way you present yourself externally. You possess a vast reservoir of energy that may be partially hidden even from your own awareness. - from a Sun in the 12th House interp

She said that this may be why she seems to be down on herself while not necessarily feeling that way inside. The thing is, she's told me flat out on occasions that she feels like she's falling apart or something. Maybe I take things too literally, but Sags are known for their brutal honesty, so if she meant something else, I would think that she'd say something else. I didn't tell her that, though. I think I'm just going to have to live with a degree of faith despite what contradictions arise.

She definitely has a challenging chart with her two t-squares. One has Saturn and Pluto in opposite with her Sun as the T. The other is Saturn opposite Uranus with Sun as the T. Capricorn ascendant is tough, and makes her Saturn in 2nd her chart ruler. The 2nd house is supposed to be a hard place for Saturn. Sun and Moon, though not in opposition, are in opposite signs, which is still tough. Sun in the 12th isn't necessarily easy.