posted August 10, 2006 01:14 AM         

What I am trying to say is...when did he realise that his relationship with his fiancee is not working!!And just think wat would have happened if he had not fallen for this lady!! Probably he would still be getting on with his life smoothly..no relationship is perfect..evry1 has their ups and downs in their life...

what am trying to make understand PP is that u dont need a third person in ur life to make u realise tht ur relationship is not working!!!

posted August 10, 2006 08:24 PM         

There's nothing wrong with looking. It's NORMAL. It doesn't mean you have to go breaking up your home!

All people married 20+ years have had passing crushes on friends, neighbors, and co workers.

You flirt a little bit, and after a while you lose interest. Maybe the next week you have a crush on somebody else.

posted August 11, 2006 04:14 AM         

1.) Stabality is important to me for my Daughter, my being miserable isn't.

2.) I didn't make this decision based on the fact that there could potententinally be something with this other girl.

3.) Does She deserve me when I acted the way I did?

4.) The only possible way i can be happy in my life is to find what i need. And after long arguments, discussions, and Thoughts did i realize that our relationship was really heading no where.

5.) I refuse to Live a lie! I refuse to Lie to myself, to her, to my daughter. What kind of father lies to thier children? What kind of Husband lies to his wife?

6.) Unfortuanlly you can't know what our relationship was like without generalization, which is fine.

7.) I've considered that the descision that I just made may potentinally have dire, consequesenses, But that is, and will as way be my burden in Life.

8.) I've followed my head all my life, I made many wrong decisions, I've hurt myself, I've hurt others. The one time I followed my Heart i've finally felt like I've escaped the lie i've been telling myself. I finally feel free, I've never felt so positive in my life. And no one, NO ONE can tell me that being opptimistic about something is, or will be a bad thing!

9.) Please don't act like, I Found some young fling, romanced her, and ran off to some other country abandoning my future wife, and my Daughter. And Please don't attempt to tell me that my daughter wouldn't notice if myself and her mother were miserable. That isn't the projection that i wish to give her. I don't want her to think that she should just stick with someone because of some personal obligation. I love her with everything I am, and nothing except, maybe death could compromise that. I will give her the Love she needs, so will her mother, I will Morally, emotionally, and Financially support her.

10.) And Please, as I stated a few days ago, don't make it out like i actually had an affair. If i did i'd let you say whatever it was you wanted to say on it. But nothing sexually, did or even still has happened.

11.) Lastly, It might not seem like it but there is much respect to all of you for you input on this matter. It's not like I just woke up monday and decided that i didn't want to be with her. I woke up monday and decided that I had to honest, regardless of the outcome. Leaving was her decision. And no I didn't argue with her about it, because it's not my place to her how to feel, and Maybe a part of me thinks she deserves better.

Honesty: is the human quality of communicating and acting truthful and with fairness, as best one is able. It is related to truth as a value. This includes listening, reasoning and any action in the human repertoire — as well as speaking.

Superficially, honesty means simply, stating facts and views as best one truly believes them to be. It includes both honesty to others, and to oneself (see: self-deception) and about ones own motives and inner reality.

Sue G: Much Love for your insight in this matter, and for reminding me that having an open mind and Honest heart is the only way to Live.

Everyone Else: Same to you but for showing me that Life is three dimensional, and that good or bad this is my burden. But i Thank you so much for you input.

With Stubborness, Honesty, and Love.
Donald

posted August 11, 2006 05:39 AM         

I'll work on my carrer, I'll build new bridges with new people to replace the one's I gave up 2.5 years ago. I'll work out, I'll have fun, I'll pay child support, i'll see my daughter weekly, I'll give her all the Love a man can give a little girl. And I will be happy. I might be a little strapped for a while, but it's helps build character.

If anyone of you are familar with effects of a Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction. Try this one out.

When my Fiance left me, this week I had $3 to my name, I got a few loans from friends to get by till friday. I couldn't help of course but think how I was potentinally going to make it on my own. I figured up my bills, vs. Hours worked to decided how much O.T. to pick up per week to be able to Live, safely. Atleast 50 Hours And that's including an estimated Child Support. It wouldn't leave me much, but It would be hard, but I'm sure i'd make it. Just as I was thinking that, my mothers lawyer calls:

"hello?"
"Donald? lawyer
"Yes?"
"I just got off the phone with your mother, and remember that Inheritance from your fathers will that you were sopose to get in January?" Lawyer
"Yes I do, lemme guess it's gonna be another few months?"
"No, actually I have the check in my office today. The earliest i can get it to you is monday. Is monday good for You?" Lawyer

"..."
"Is monday ok for you?" Lawyer
"..."
"Donald?" Lawyer
"Yeh... Yeah, monday is perfect."

And that's mostly the Jist of it, it went just like that. It's not alot of money, but it's enough to do what i've been trying to do for years. Clean the old bill house and start over again. How opportune? I'm sure i'll save some for a rainy day, but for the first time since I've been on my own (16) I get my second chance. I just wonder what happened astrologically that effected this... The main point here is that i'm one to usually complain I get a raw deal about stuff all the time. But it always seems that when I really need something, something comes up. Sometimes I thought that maybe those two planets Nullified each other. I'm glad I was wrong.

My father passed in March, 23rd to be exact.
A week after his Birthday, 18th. I miss him dearly. It makes me cry to just think about it. The thing I remember the most about him was that no matter all the stupid things i did, drugs, girls, lies. He refused to call himself, and myself a failure. A stupid arse at times, yes, but never a failure. Even In death he still watches over me, I won't disgrace him.

Needless to say i've had many thoughts since March, my relationship, my life, my Daughter. As with everything in my life, it all boiled over into a climax of things that pushed and pulled me in a different direction. And now an only now, can I finally move myself forward, I can let go of my ridiculus childhood.

I see the ending of an Act. I'm standing two steps past a crossroads, looking into the infinte beyond, dreaming of what is come, wondering what lies ahead. I'm not reluctent to turn around, I focus forward, this path may lead now where, it may lead somewhere. Either way Its the one to my destiny. I Take another step, one with pride, another with dignity. I will walk this path, maybe alone for a while, maybe with someone someday, but I will walk it. I won't look back, I wont turn around, I won't walk this path with regret, with bitterness. I have the courage to continue, I'm so scared that I keep walking, and walking, and walking into a rising Sun.

Donald

What it means to Me:

Jupiter (luck) Saturn (Karma) Conjuction (Joinging Together) 2nd house (Finances) , Libra

To Carry On with Pride and Persistance, Sun Capricorn.
That rising sun is in my Ascendent Leo
My peace is in my heart, Libra Moon.
The Desire to Open and share my Heart freely with others, Venus In Saggitarius.
The Need to assert focus and Control into my life, Mars in Capricorn.
And to do it all with Practical, and sound Judgement, Mercury in Capricorn.

posted August 11, 2006 10:58 AM         

Live your truth.....

Honest and steadfast you are......

Here if you need to share....anytime

Love and peace to you

posted August 11, 2006 12:06 PM         

I had to think of the long term and bigger picture, and how my misery would affect them, as opposed to the influence of having a mother who was strong, happy and free in her own Truth.
I want my children to be strong in their own Truths as well. I hope to be an inspiration to them, rather than an oppression.

I read your story here from the beginning, and I had a feeling that the story was more complex than the other woman. She seemed more a catalyst for your inner strugglings and yearnings.
I get a feeling you understand that too?
I feel for your fiance as well.
This can't be an easy time for her.
I endured much hostility from my husband, and continue to at times, because I understand he is hurt and that hurt people, hurt people. I know it hasn't been easy on him, and I do feel for him, even though he doesn't believe that.
I had to follow my heart. I couldn't go through motions in life, nor pretend to be happy. I couldn't live a lie.

posted August 11, 2006 12:10 PM         

Aim for Beauty
Strive for Cherish
Place Your Heart
in Sacred Spaces,
so it may Truly
reTurn to Thee.

posted August 11, 2006 03:41 PM         

For you an earth spirit...hope you like her....

posted August 12, 2006 11:53 AM         

PansPride, I am proud of you for being honest and true to yourself, be damned the results.
Only true things can come from truth to begin with, and no matter what results, whoever sees it as bad or good, I appreciate your strength of character.
Your daughter will too... and I hope, the woman you'd shared her life with for quite a while now.
I like how you put it...

quote:

---

It's not like I just woke up monday and decided that i didn't want to be with her. I woke up monday and decided that I had to honest, regardless of the outcome.

---

I am biased, so I don't want to say to sue, but well, I say it anyway.

posted August 13, 2006 04:04 AM         

If I was this other woman, I would have nothing to do with you.

If you ran out on your fiancee and child for someone you barely even know, she should realize you'll do the same thing to her too.

That'll be her Karma...You'll get your Karma too.

You shirked your obligations, and broke your promises.

Fancy worded excuses are crap.

It's your actions that matter.

DO THE RIGHT THING - EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO.

Ladies: I hate to see the losers you're going to get involved with if these are your standards.

Here's a clue, These are the traits you do NOT want in a man:

Breaking Promises
Dishonesty
Selfishness
Lack of Character
Lack of Core Values
Lack of Moral Fiber
Lack of Integrity
Lack of Courage

PP's story has managed checked off every box on the list.

You may applaud his behavior today, but you'll be crying tomorrow, when you're the victim of it.

posted August 13, 2006 04:29 AM         

BS....The "loser" I am involved with has stood by my side for almost 18years, never betrayed me or never lied to me...he is one of the best...

Ive never had a man hit me or physically abuse me or cheat on me.

That is the energy I attract.. Maybe this is a part of my karma?

And because I am honourable and sincere, I am also compassionate and non judgmental...

I empathise.....not judge....

I also dont throw stones at glass houses....

Maybe BS....you could learn the art of compassion, i am sure it would serve you well...

And I am truly sorry, you were hurt in the past....sorry indeed for how its left you feeling....

posted August 13, 2006 04:46 AM         

I can be VERY compassionate, but only to innocent victims who deserve it. PP is not one of those.

The only people I'm feeling compassionate for here are his fiancee and most of all his poor little daughter.

How can a man be so selfish to put a fleeting crush ahead of his own child, and her best interests?

posted August 13, 2006 05:04 AM         

What do you teach your kids?

I don't have any yet, but as soon as I can lean over their cradle, I'm going to drill into them one thing: Integrity.

"When ever you face a challenge in your life," I will say, "Stop, and think to yourself: What is the right thing to do? And then, do that thing. Even if you don't want to, even if it's hard.

Because, that is where your self respect comes from. A lot of people have no respect for themselves or others. A lot of people have no self worth.

But if you try to always do the right thing, even if others come against you, you will look in the mirror and you will like who you are. You can be proud of yourself.

At least, that is what has always worked for me."

What are you teaching your children?

Do what you feel like? Even if it's wrong and hurts others? Put yourself first? Do what makes you happy, and to hell with everybody else?

posted August 13, 2006 05:38 AM         

The other girl is not the reason Donald has come to this realisation that his relationship isnt right for him....

She played just a small part in his story....

I cannot relate to your "harsh" way of thinking...

In regard to accepting "less" I burst out laughing when I read this. The reason I have had three husbands is because they were never enough for me. I have very very high standards and any man who can stay with me this long, needs a meddle. You were totally off course there girl.....I am indeed very hard to please!!!! Just ask my husband.

As regards to my son....what do I teach him...not to lie, that love is the most important thing in life, he is still young, but as he matures I shall talk to him of love more in depth. I will always teach him to love himself.

Also of how he deserves the best and not to compromise for the sake of society, for the look of it.

BS, you and I will never see eye to eye.

Thats okay.....you have your reasons for the way you are, and I for mine....

Actually tho, you sound like my mother.....

Please be easier on men, especially Donald, he is a young man who has tried to do what he thinks right, but he cannot live a lie.....

Of course if he has made a mistake, then so be it, but by not living a lie, he has made no mistake...

posted August 13, 2006 05:41 AM         

BTW "drilling" things into kids usually leads to one thing....REBELLION...my mother was like you...it didnt work...

Now teaching and guiding with love....aaahhh....thats a different matter...

Its all a matter of skill with children BS....still you wouldnt know cos you dont have any...

Dont throw stones at glass houses girl.....

I also think it may be a good idea before you do become a mother to do a little work around that anger......because children bring out the best and worst in us....

posted August 13, 2006 06:52 AM         

1. Strict moral code (Being honest to someone about something is fairly moral if you ask me)
2. Unimpaired, (staying in a relationship, job, friendship that holds me back impairs me)
3. Undivided (As i've been since i started this post)

Two things you cannot tell me, that i have no Integrity, and that I'm not Honest.

As for the Karma, heh, heh. It's not like you need wish this bad on me. It always comes back to get me, and it will, it has already i think. It's slowly eating me alive in the form of lonliness, not knowing what comes next, or what to do next, impulsivity. It's a hard thing to balance, what might be ethically right, or what Is morally right? I think that is my decision to make, so long have I've tried to do the Ethical thing, to be what I've been told i should be, and where does that lead?

Into a Cold, unemotional, reseved, uncompassionate, uncomprising, lying, maniuplative, bitter, resentful, devious piece of crap.

That was me before this relationship, now its simply, lonliness. That is and will most likely always be my Karma. Why? Because it's what I fear the most, It's what I long to fix in my life.

Last i checked, about 5 seconds ago the best and only way to fix a fear is to face it.

Berry, i respect your right feel the way you do, and I see where your coming from. And your right i'll get my Karma, this other girl won't, it wasn't her mistake to make, unless being there for me to open up to a little to is bad.

On the other hand, i have to move on, the issue with the lonliness is that while i'm lonely i'll continue to think about what i've done. I refuse to regret it, as i stated before, I regret everything that i did in my childhood, and if i continue to go through the rest of my life only thinking about the things i could have changed how the hell am I soposed to move on with me life? How am i supposed to grow up? How will I ever get anywhere?

And actually, when i come to think about a little more, the opinion that i should do what is morally right, just because it's morally right is CRAP! I've done that my whole life, its made me indesisive, irrational, and uncaring.

It's not like I don't get the old rumor from work, "Ohh did you hear donald, left his fianace for that _____ Girl?" But honestly i don't care, I know what i did, why i did what i did, and really don't give a damn, what the rest of brainwashed society thinks about it. I know i've done nothing wrong morally, and that's what's messed up about it, is that people would try to tell me I Did! How do you know? Do you know my Internal conflict? Do you know my feelings? Do you know what I love? Or hate?

Know why? Because morally it looks bad, because perception is reality, or is everything. And what people perceive is what they belive. They can't see past the fact that for once in my life I did what everyone longs to do. Just be free! Not free of love, or relationships, but free of thought, free of action, to let out that burning desire to have and do something else.

I'll leave you with this, take it or leave it I really don't care. ( And I mean that)

You want to Morally hold me back? You want me to run into my shell everytime i get scared, every time there is a challenge? You want me to Hold in this negative energy, and allow it to accumlate into something massive so it blows? For once in my life, I try to find the light from all the darkness, and you tell me I'm wrong?! WTF?! Your not the only one i get the strange eye from. But i'm above thier games, i know what i did and why I did it. Regardless of reasons that I've already explained too many times. From this Point on, and only this point. I will never, and I mean never explain my life to someone, I do what i do because i feel i should do it, no other reason.

"I know I was born, and I know that I'll die, the In Between is mine."

Donald

posted August 13, 2006 07:05 AM         

My mother and father have been married for ever.

He is a very passionate and warm hearted man, she is less so.

They stuck together....through thick and thin...

They are both 80 and very depressed. They claim they love each other very much, but they are very unhappy and have NO peace of mind.

He has prostrate cancer....she has depression and anxiety....they both cry every day.

I know they have made each other ill, even tho they wouldnt admit it..

My mother used to use an expression "you make your bed so you lie in it". I have had three husbands...she isnt too impressed...I had the courage to walk away from a lie.....that is the difference.

And the one thing I did that they didnt was to be HONEST....

I have at times put others first and at times, this hasnt worked.

Donald, dont listen to anything other than your higher voice and your truth....

This is all for a reason...you will see....this is God's divine plan.

posted August 13, 2006 07:49 AM         

I think mostly what I long to find is the woman who can open those barred doors of my so enclosed heart. As I stated before i thought i met her, but she seemed so distant when I tried to let it out. It taught me not to let it out again, to hold onto it until someone comes along with the Key. She was a saggie, aries moon, Cappy sun.

And Unfortunally, well somewhat I have this Undying attraction to fire signs, all the most Intense relationships I've had were with all 3 fire signs. The Lioness... I've dated 3 Leo's the initial attraction was something undenyable, I knew what it was when i saw them, She was everything I wanted in a woman, social, happy, vibrant, beautiful, romantic, somewhat extravagant, and so Opptimistic. But It died so easily, who'd figure my earth would bury the fire?

posted August 13, 2006 12:34 PM         

Wow, BerrySweet, you're good at jumping to extreme conclusions on very little information aren't you? Much like the limited generalizations you have about Sun Signs. No room at all for individuality, ay?

Why not ask Donald some questions first?
Maybe you could come to an understanding by getting to know him, before flying off the handle, telling him he has no integrity or morals and isn't doing what's right.
Right to who??? YOU, yeah, exactly.
That's your bag, not his. He's got his own life to live and his OWN conscience to live with. No one in this World has ANY right to judge his actions, but himself. He's the only one that knows what is right for him and his child.

I think a good parent has faith in their children, regardless of all seasons of life and passing stages they'll go through, reassuring them that they trust that they will be ok in the end and make the right decisions that are True to their own heart and mind. As long as he has a caring heart, beauty and love is sure to come from that.
Look around you and really observe people.
The ones most dependant on others, and with the most insecurities are most often from domineering, over-critical parents who didn't trust their abilities.

As a parent, you have to take the long-term ramifications into account; what is best for the spiritual well-being of the children as they grow into adults.
Tell me that you honestly believe a child who was taught by example to do what other's think is right, regardless of if it is a miserable existance or not, will grow into a person who is strong and capable, who has faith in their own abilities??
Or will they only look to you or others, never truly knowing themselves enough to stand on their own feet and be independant?

No worries...Sue, Pix and I know our children will grow into amazing, shining people. The kind of people that others will admire, for being compassionate, non-biased, open, independant Souls who are strong in who knowing who they are.

Donald, you'll come across this kind of stuff now. Most often it will be in hushed whispers and not to your face. Some 'friends' will mysteriously fade away.
So be it. You'll come to realize who is True and who is not. It's painful at times, but eye-opening.
And the loneliness is a challenge as well.
You have the choice to let aloneness overwhelm you or to empower you. If you allow it to empower you, beautiful horizons will open to you, naturally.

Keep talking, whenever you like. We're here listening.