posted December 11, 2006 04:05 PM         

Saying " I am a hippy, I am a Libra, I am a healer" etc is slightly different to a psychiatrist calling someone a paranoid schizo....

posted December 11, 2006 04:19 PM         

Our son says to me "I love you mum but you are a bit crazeeeeeee"

Haha!!

posted December 11, 2006 04:33 PM         

I'm laughing so hard...

my girls and I go back and forth with that too!

ahahahahahaha

I LOve EveryOne..so Much..
I feel so Much Happiness...

posted December 12, 2006 02:10 AM         

Regarding the use of the language to speak of and to describe madness, I highly recommend that you read Kay Redfield Jamison's memoir "An Unquiet Mind"- the chapter under the Part entitled "An Unquiet Mind", and the section is entitled "Speaking of Madness", as far as I can remember.

There are usually two sides of everything, and there are always those fine lines, those fine points which are often very subtle that the majority of people would either miss or take them the way that is lacking in balance. For any of us, who's dedicating their life and work to any of their specific field, it is quite likely for them to see merely the surface of those other fields which do not belong to them.

For example, just because some other people I know and I have consistently participated in the courses, conferences and other events conducted by TCDP (Taiwan Center for the Development of Psychoanalysis), and certain of these individuals are the members or executives of TCDP, THAT does NOT, mean, at least here in Taiwan, that we are all blindly, rigidly and mechanically "loyal" followers/disciples of Sigmund Freud and inflexibly agree on whatever he said, or with the ideologies from other psychoanalysts, either. Why not? Because of the fine lines and fine points I have mentioned earlier on. There are only too many reasons why people, most of whom psychiatrists, end up in the psychoanalytic fields. Too many. Are all of them happy about that? NO. Do all of us hold exactly identical beliefs and theories? A firm NO. So do we all have exactly the same methods when it comes to our duty (well, in my case my duty is to study hard, observe keenly, maintain and enhance an open mind and make progress) to do our job? People may shrug off the psychoanalytic theories and assume all of us who are involved in the studies of it are "identical". Truth is of course we're not. Just like some of us may make our own presumptions of lawyers and think that none of them have ideals etc...but speaking as a layperson, I dare say that it's not true.

Now, back to the agenda of "labels and labelling"- I try very hard to improve our mutual understanding here. Do psychiatrists, and those of us who are involved in the studying of psychiatric medicine, volunteer to label excessively, abruptly, or encourage doing so? That is not true- in our circle of psychiatric residents and acquaintances who are not physicians, clinicians but share similar interests, pursuits and studies choices (for instance, I'm not a clinician...yet)- again, in our circle, as I pointed out in another post in response to this multiple post started by Mirandee, I said that as psychiatrists themselves, which means I obtain this because I happen to be within the circle from time to time (ongoing), they constantly talk about NOT labelling anybody with their relatively preliminary knowledge and experience of the field; they would do their best NOT to casually label people they know in their personal lives- friends, family members etc- that you have this or you have that, or you are this or you are that, merely because they've gone to medical school, they've studied psychiatry ( but have not "finished"! It's an ongoing, lifetime process!), or they are now doctors, psychiatrists (well, residents though Pun intended ). On the contrary. They frequently remind their close colleagues and themselves of NOT to label any individual casually, untimely, unnecessarily, or excessively.

As psychiatrists, some of them with better awareness, would remind their patients NOT to overidentify with their own diagnoses- and this has been taking place all the time; those who have maintained more consideration would gently urge certain mental patients, who are sensitive about their own illness, to NOT overidentify themselves with their conditions- because, I suppose in simple terms, if you have poor insight about your own condition, surely the outcome of your remission or recovery would not be helped by this. However, if you overidentify with your diagnosis, it is simply the other form of out-of-the-balance, AND that IS one of the things they as clinicians do try their utmost NOT to let it happen. We do encourage patients NOT to overidentify themselves, because none of us can achieve the balance we need by doing so, and in the end this is not helping anyone or any situation.

We as free individuals are all entitled to our opinion, stance, and position, and I would do everything I can to try to respect other people's views as I should; nonetheless, those fine lines, fine points, the tangling in the web...most of the time cannot be condensed down to a term, a post, or a book- we all have our own missions in this lifetime, we all contribute to society and humanity in each of our own idiosyncratic way, and all we can do is the best we can

posted December 12, 2006 09:18 AM         

You're gonna make one helluva clinician! You certainly have the spirit for it.

posted December 12, 2006 12:08 PM         

hehe

posted December 12, 2006 01:29 PM         

The reason that topics such as this are of interest and help to me is that my father was an alcoholic and a verbal abuser. I came to see through therapy as a young adult that it was really himself that my father hated and took out on others and that in his way my dad loved me as much as he was capable of loving anyone. From the knowledge I acquired about the situation I was able to forgive my dad and let go of the past.

That is why I think that in these cases it IS helpful for people to have information such as this. It also can, if allowed to do so, prompt discussion about our own experiences.

Maire31, thank you for the article and it is very accurate. I stated at astrology on this thread there that I fully agree with what your article states. I also stated what I believe the purpose for psychology is meant for. It is more to help those who are abused or in situations they do not understand and for their own growth than it is for pointing a finger at other people. I always applied psychology and the understanding of myself and what is happening around me solely for my own growth and change. We cannot change other people. We can only change how we react to them. We can only learn what we take from every experience in our lives. We cannot force others to learn if they choose not to.

posted December 13, 2006 04:31 AM         

Isnt it a wonderful way to learn self control, maturity and the ability to get across one's point, by contributing to a forum like this one.

I agree with "we can only change how we react to them", I embrace this statement in full!

Using expressions such as "cut the phoney compassion crap" not only exaserbates a situation, but it is offensive and immature....as well as judgemental and untrue.

Maybe we ALL take on the advice from this passage....maybe we can all learn to control our anger and frustrations when putting our point across.

Maybe we can start to be rational, honest and mature.

One always has time to think before they write. No need to lash out or behave in an offensive way.

And maybe after we have name called or treated someone offensively, we could apologise?

posted December 14, 2006 05:50 AM         

Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it

*multiple-post yet again*

Right...should I be saying something like "so glad to see so many of us 'care'"?

Please, just drop it. Take Sue's words as pearls of wisdom this time round- not even those with their titles as "M.D.", let alone the rest of us- it is none of our business to lose patience and compassion as to jump to conclusions and using those "disorders" labels dangerously- it was with much reluctance that I gave contact info of American Psychiatry Association- for one thing, this may have been a more or less stimulating conversation, BUT this is NOT a website dedicating to the medical profession/theocracy people to discuss their biz, this site, albeit with our liberty to have a variety of themes or topics for us to participate in discussions, nevertheless, LL is for us to honor the spirit of Linda, and please, dear fellow knowflakes- I'm sure you all know how Linda was vehemently against things like organized religion, and as well as "medical theocracy"- so please, I really never think of this site as the right place to debate subjects like this one in-depth.

I tried to take this to a halt but I was all thumbs. Maire31 's fine quote:

quote-
Information is power. We should thrive to use it wisely.

Therefore, please handle your knowledge or information with much care, the way you present it may make us all fragile and vulnerable to unwanted consequences- please do NOT use the info you possess to label any individual with a "personality disorder diagnosis"- that's lethal. Even throughout the process for those clinicians to actually make diagnoses, they'd have to note many other complicated additional factors and take them all into consideration: one person's sounding "familiar" as to being "like" a certain "personality disorder" often does NOT meet the complete diagnostic criteria, and would subsuquently be noted as "with ***** traits..."; often, a real diagnosis has not been made, but instead, physicians may note that "with provisional diagnosis of ***" or "with (likely, but not 100% sure) past diagnosis of ***" and lots of medical bureaucratic language like that.

posted December 14, 2006 11:27 AM         

May I ask who it is that you think is being "labeled" and "diagnosed" on this thread?

I have stated what I believe psychology should be applied to on all three threads. It should be used for self-help. It is a very good tool for coming to know and understand ones own self and for coming to understand our experiences in relationships with other people. I have stated it should not be directed at others in the form of finger pointing. Only a trained professional can diagnose the personality disorders of their patients. Even professionals do not diagnose people that they are not treating even though they may be aware of certain patterns in public figures etc. Maire31's article, which I agreed with, states as much too.

What does theocracy and religion have to do with this topic?

I disagree with what you stated here about Linda Goodman being "against organized religion."

Linda Goodman was not "against" organized religion. She sometimes wore a crucifix around her neck and she sometimes meditated on the rosary. She also believed in Jesus.

Although she didn't practice or belong to any one organized religious group, she studied all religions and took from them what came to be her own personal beliefs.

Linda Goodman believed in gaining knowledge of all things. Including psychology. Which IS the spirit of this thread. It is strictly an information thread. That is all and that is definitly in the spirit of all that Linda Goodman stood for. Linda Goodman would never be in favor of anyone attempting to squelch any kind of information or dialog, no matter what the topic may be.

posted December 14, 2006 05:37 PM         

quote:

---

Please, all I'm trying to say is I applaud for your enthusiasm, but this is really not the place to discuss such a topic, and should you be so keen, please do this somewhere else….
….please go somewhere else where such action is encouraged….

---

posted December 15, 2006 12:45 AM         

quote:

---

Ok, I really don't like how people are discrediting doctors for helping people who actually need help. Sure, some people get misdiagnosed but there are others who actually have to be diagnosed in order to get the help the need. I hardly think that its "labeling". Come on, some of you are acting likey they're putting the scarlet letter on people's foreheads.

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That is something that I don't comprehend either, Dulce Luna. The medical profession as well as the mental health profession do help many people. Both professions have saved people's lives in many cases.

They are not perfect and sometimes misdiagnoses do happen but for every one patient that they may diagnose incorrectly there are many, many more that are diagnosed accurately and helped.

Possibly any misdiagnosis that occurs in both the medical and mental health professions is due to the fact that symptoms of certain illnesses are similar to other illnesses and symptoms of any one type of personality disorder also can be the same symptoms as other personality disorders. Diagnostics is not an exact science.

posted December 15, 2006 05:24 AM         

The more doctors' prescribe drugs, the more money they make....hence their enthusiasm to dish out pills.

Diagnosis equals conditon equals medcation equals....MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!

People dont be fooled.....the drug companies and medical profession are corrupt..

posted December 15, 2006 05:39 AM         

I had a mother with Borderline Personality Disorder (or possibly Narcissistic actually), and I have ADD and Borderline traits as a result of both genetics and upbringing.

I have been trying to get something out of the shrinks for over 18 months now and they haven't done it BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE SURE ITS THE RIGHT MEDICATION and that its warranted.

I have been offered NOTHING, even when I pleaded with them at one point because I was so confused and acting impulsively, and yes, suicidal at times.

I am now self-medicating with 5-HTP because the doctors want me to have thorough tests before they even finally diagnose me. They are skeptical of ADD in adults existing in England at all. Which I'll admit is a different tact than the US where anything and everything is given a "label".

When I had nothing to call my pain it was confusing and unpredictable and so far beyond depressing it was dangerous.

Now, with a framework in place I can manage a lot better, and I'm not even that bad most of the time. There are neurotic and psychotic people out there and some are dangerous to others as well as themselves. This is a fact.

In England we had a policy called "Care in the Community" where they would let patients out as part of their programme with external support and this backfired tremendously. A couple of people were killed and some injured, not to mention the damage it did to the patients themselves.

Of course money is God in these times, especially in the US (which may affect the arguments here I guess) but you seem to have a view that is very black and white and this just doesn't fit the way things are.

In my case it's been exactly the opposite. I can't get drugs for love nor money!

posted December 15, 2006 06:10 AM         

quote:

---

The drug companies and GPs (doctors) have an allegiance.

---

quote:

---

People dont be fooled.....the drug companies and medical profession are corrupt..

---

And just what is your basis for these outlandish claims you're making??? Are you ever even around the medical profession that much, because I am and I can tell you that it is the complete opposite.

posted December 15, 2006 06:29 AM         

Its also common knowledge here Dulc that there is corruption....

Maybe in yer land its different....I dont think for one minute what I hear is lies....

They are good people who are very aware and got out because of what they witnessed.