posted September 12, 2007 08:54 PM         

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Do you remember the thread "where does your sun live"?
Well, my sun lives in the 7th house of my chart. My statement was really in response to the common sentiment that every 7th house sun is ALWAYS looking for a relationship and that's not how I was before I ended up with the scorp

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posted September 13, 2007 05:23 AM         

Someone who makes you feel safe, really safe. You don’t need walls or pride with them around. Someone who lets you be you, without trying to change you.

posted September 13, 2007 05:43 AM         

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How about sex,chemestry,passion?
how is it that almost noone has mentioned these?

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I am sorry but I still don't get how two cancer people here (Duce and Cancerrg) think that love is not an emotion but a state of mind

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posted September 13, 2007 08:08 AM         

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We just said we don't consider love a feeling because of the fact that feelings are not constant.

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I am not sure if I agree that Love is constant. I can absolutely be sure to tell you that I do not love my ex hubby. I don't want anything bad to happen to him (or anyone else for that matter) but I wouldn't go as far as saying that I still love him. The fact is, I couldn't care less. If that makes me a bad person (I hope not), so be it.

Love must be nurtured to be constant. When you meet someone, fall in love, and get married, you still have to nurture that feeling, or you CAN fall out of love. What I mean is, you cannot take each other for granted or you may find yourself falling "out of love" with each other.

So, yes... in my mind, Love is a feeling and it is definitely an emotion.

Only sharing my point of view,

MM

posted September 13, 2007 09:43 AM         

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am not sure if I agree that Love is constant. I can absolutely be sure to tell you that I do not love my ex hubby. I don't want anything bad to happen to him (or anyone else for that matter) but I wouldn't go as far as saying that I still love him. The fact is, I couldn't care less. If that makes me a bad person (I hope not), so be it.

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I hate to be blunt, but maybe the association was based on just being in love, you know...like the romantic sexual kind?? Because I'm not speaking of that when I say it is constant.

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Love must be nurtured to be constant. When you meet someone, fall in love, and get married, you still have to nurture that feeling, or you CAN fall out of love. What I mean is, you cannot take each other for granted or you may find yourself falling "out of love" with each other.

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No, being in love is something that must be nurtured to be constant. The other kind of love is constant and unconditional which is why I don't equate it to being something as fleeting as an emotion.

Aqua,

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I can understand what they mean. Tho I wouldn’t use “state of mind”. I think real love is above mind and emotions and comes from the soul – God Lord that’s sounds cheesy!

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Yeah, it is kind of cheesy but I kind of get what you mean.....a soul thing. I'll have to ponder that.

posted September 13, 2007 09:49 AM         

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oh yeah, I remember that too, I also have my sun in the 7th house (cancer) and not I have never considered myself the type the needed a relationship all the time, in fact, all my years from 15 to 21 I was always on my own, discovering the world.I moved many, MANY times, life was an adveture to me and noone would tide me down, until I found my ex husband...or actually he found me. (d*mn!)

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Yeah, I don't always agree with that interp of 7th house suns, but maybe the fact that I have a very independent gemini venus and virgo moon seriously modifies things

posted September 15, 2007 11:49 AM         

About love being constant...

The example given was that of a person who is not presently feeling love, but, the instant she hears that something has happened to a loved one, she feels intensely for them. This is used to distinguish love, which is said to be constant, from the feeling of love, which is fleeting.

But lets ask if a comparable example might be given to illustrate that the same is true of other things.

Let's say I'm having an okay day. I'm not thinking of that jerk in accounting who always steals my Pepsi out of the breakroom fridge. (Does this mean I have no anger towards him?) Suddenly, I open the fridge to discover my Pepsi missing. "That dirty S.O.B." I think to myself, filling up with feelings of anger and frustration. (Was the anger there all along?)

If the first example supports the theory that love is constant, then, the second must support the theory that anger is constant, right?

Let's try another one:

I like icecream,
but I'm not craving it right now.
Suddenly, I spot an ice cream parlor.
Holy sh!t, I want icecream!

one more:

Let's say I like pizza but I'm not hungry.
Six hours go by and now I'm starving.
I want pizza!

All of these are not significantly different from the original example, as I see it.

posted September 15, 2007 12:10 PM         

In the Greek language there are three words that are used for love. The first one, eros, stands for sexual, romantic love. From eros we have the word erotica. Eros is the kind of love mostly known by the world. You can easily notice people's preoccupation with sex. This eros love is what generally motivates people.

The second word, philia, generally refers to affection between friends. From this word we have Philadelphia, the "City of Brotherly Love." Although both eros and philia have others as their focus, they both can be motivated by self-interest, self-gratification and self-protection. They are both the kind of love that is designed to satisfy the desires of the one doing the loving. There may be an element of giving involved, but it is a giving for the purpose of getting something in return.

The third Greek word for love is agape. The meaning of this word for love stands in sharp contrast to that of the other two words. This word alone points to a completely self-sacrificing love, a love that lacks self-interest, self-gratification and self-preservation. Agape love is motivated primarily by the interest and welfare of others. The word agape is used very sparingly by Greek secular writers, but in the New Testament, agape is the Greek word most frequently used for the love for God (Matt. 22:37, John 14:15), the love for spouses (Col. 3:19, Eph. 5:25), and the love for enemies (Matt. 5:44, Luke 6:35).
http://www.gracevalley.org/sermon_trans/Real_Love.html

A number of different Greek words for love, as the Greek language distinguishes how the word is used. Ancient Greek has three distinct words for love: eros, philia, and agape. However, as with other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words. Nonetheless, the senses in which these words were generally used are given below.

Eros (ἔρως érōs) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "(romantic) love". However, Eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone who you love more than the Philia love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition. Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. It should be noted Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction". Plato also said Eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros. The most famous ancient work on the subject of eros is Plato's Symposium, which is a discussion among the students of Socrates on the nature of eros.
Philia (φιλία philía), means friendship in modern Greek, a dispassionate virtuous love, was a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philia denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers. This is the only other word for "love" used in the ancient text of the New Testament besides agape, but even then it is used substantially less frequently.
Agapē (ἀγάπη agápē means "love" in modern day Greek. The term s'agapo means "I love you" in Greek. The word "agapo" is the verb "I love". In Ancient Greek it often refers to a general affection rather than the attraction suggested by "eros"; agape is used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one's children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. The verb appears in the New Testament describing, amongst other things, the relationship between Jesus and the beloved disciple. In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all--both friend and enemy. It is used in Matthew 22:39, "Love your neighbour as yourself," and in John 15:12, "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you," and in 1 John 4:8, "God is love." However, the word "agape" is not always used in the New Testament in a positive sense. II Timothy 4:10 uses the word in a negative sense. The Apostle Paul writes,"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved (agapo) this present world...." Thus the word "agape" is not always used of a divine love or the love of God. Christian commentators have expanded the original Greek definition to encompass a total commitment or self-sacrificial love for the thing loved. Because of its frequency of use in the New Testament, Christian writers have developed a significant amount of theology based solely on the interpretation of this word.}
Storge (στοργή storgē means "affection" in modern Greek; it is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family.
Thelema means "desire" in modern Greek; it is the desire to do something, to be occupied, to be in prominence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

posted September 15, 2007 12:32 PM         

" until we love, there is no life,
and then there is no death..... "

also there is this beautiful poem by Tagore, on twin souls.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms, numberless times,
In life after life, in age after age forever.
My spell-bound heart has made and
re-made the necklace of songs
That you take as a gift, wear round your neck in your many forms
In life after life, in age after age forever.

posted September 15, 2007 12:32 PM         

" until we love, there is no life,
and then there is no death..... "

also there is this beautiful poem by Tagore, on twin souls.

=========================================
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms, numberless times,
In life after life, in age after age forever.
My spell-bound heart has made and
re-made the necklace of songs
That you take as a gift, wear round your neck in your many forms
In life after life, in age after age forever.

posted September 16, 2007 03:14 PM         

"I think when you are mature and know what love really is you will safe regardless. you will be your own person and own yourself. sorry just had to add that."

There is truth to this, but its important to remember that it is an ideal toward which we all strive, and it is only perfectly attained, if ever, by a Buddha (or "Awakened One"). For the rest of us, independence, self-awareness, maturity, and security are relative terms; one can always be more self-contained, more self-aware, more mature, and/or more safe. Aqua Inferno may have been speaking from a place of higher standards than you assumed.

NAM,

posted September 16, 2007 03:39 PM         

~ Erich Fromm

posted September 16, 2007 03:43 PM         

- Chief Dan George

'Judgment is the antithesis of understanding,
and hatred of evil is the craftiest and least well-known of vices,
so easily is it mistaken for love of good.'

- Heart-Shaped Cross

'Would you know your Lord's meaning in this thing? Know it well. Love was his meaning. Who showed it to you? Love. What did he show you? Love. Why did he show it? For love. Keep yourself therein and you shall know and understand more in the same. But you shall never know nor understand any other thing, forever.'

posted September 16, 2007 03:43 PM         

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aqua inferno: your comment sounds as if you are 12.

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posted September 16, 2007 03:52 PM         

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There is truth to this, but its important to remember that it is an ideal toward which we all strive, and it is only perfectly attained, if ever, by a Buddha (or "Awakened One"). For the rest of us, independence, self-awareness, maturity, and security are relative terms; one can always be more self-contained, more self-aware, more mature, and/or more safe. Aqua Inferno may have been speaking from a place of higher standards than you assumed.

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posted September 16, 2007 03:55 PM         

Is this what you mean?:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

~ William Shakespeare
(Sonnet 116)

posted September 16, 2007 08:29 PM         

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Dulce,
Is this what you mean?:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

~ William Shakespeare
(Sonnet 116)

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posted September 18, 2007 06:03 PM         

Love feels like a safe place you go to when everything else looks grim.

When you love someone you genuinely want what's best for the other person and you deeply care about their well being.

Love is having the worst day ever.. seeing that person.. and feeling as though the world is a beautiful place regardless - just because you are with them.

posted September 18, 2007 06:23 PM         

Anyways, I don't see love and passion as intertwined.. I think passion is a great quality in certain areas but not in love.

I am passionate about what I want to do and achieve.. I think passion thrives at work/career.. maybe in sport, as well. That's a place fit for positive - pro-active.. passion, that actually leads to something good in your life and possibly the lives of others.

Love, to me, is meant to be a holiday from all that work.. and pushing and shoving..
Love is meant to feel sweet and easy.. like sitting down and reading a book by a lake.. after a hard day's work.. But I have an earth moon.. so I'm not much for passionate encounters. Passion isn't very relaxing and it feels out of place in love.. in my opinion.. In love I associate it with obsession/aggravation/drama.. and that's not positive passion.. It doesn't achieve any good..

It seems to only do harm, and it also seems like a very self-centered feeling to me - because the people who feel that way are usually very consumed by the passion - almost lost in their own lalaland - dreaming and thinking about the other all day long, concentrating *purely* on that person like they're the next Messiah lol - while ignoring the rest of the world - friends/family/colleagues/the universe.. I don't see that as an element of what I want in love.

I think, true love should make you feel more caring towards others.. not less caring.. Passion makes you feel like you're in your own bubble and others cease to exist.. It's a bit evil, in that way.

Passionate sex is another matter.. but again, it's not associated with the feeling of love that I would feel.. I'm very compartmentalized.. so when I'm having sex - I'm having sex.. and physical passion goes into that - but when thats done, however many minutes later.. I don't feel emotional "passion" for the person.. Passion is a more physical - energy related thing - to me.. not intellectual and not emotional. I resent people who try to make it emotional or psychological - with me.. because that's not how I roll.

Emotionally I would only feel a very pure and sweet form of love.. completely dispassionate - completely nonphysical and cut off from sex entirely..