posted March 03, 2009 01:06 PM           

So many relationships begin with an initial burst of honesty between two people.

And this honesty is so beautiful and powerful and wonderful and real.

But then "reality" creeps in, lol, and people lose that honesty.

WTF?

They lie to each other, or they lie to themselves.

Rare is the relationship that stays honest with itself.

posted March 03, 2009 02:01 PM         

He says something to a kid who asks a question that I thought was interesting.

What change does this retrograde offer to those in budding relationships?
Posted by ::~Mistah Bches~:: [SLG] on March 3, 2009 - Tuesday - 6:06 AM

Honestly, it's not the best omen. It depends on how "budding" the relationship is. If you've been together for a month or two, it probably just signifies the adjustment period. If you've just made the decision to get together in the last week or two, then there may be deeper issues. People often start partnerships and alliances that go sour during Venus' retrogrades.
-B
Posted by Baron Samadhi von Coppockalypse, PhD on March 3, 2009 - Tuesday - 6:55 AM

If this is so, then what does the wise Baron suggest? I really like this person and I believe it can work out but some advice would be appreciated.
Posted by ::~Mistah Bches~:: [SLG] on March 3, 2009 - Tuesday - 7:01 AM

I would explore the dynamic over the next month, and find out if it is what you think it is. One of the problems that occurs during Venus retros is having one idea about what a connection is about, and finding out that its quite a bit different. The overflowing and dramatic energies of the time can create connections that do not prosper in other times.

posted March 03, 2009 03:11 PM         

Human flaw? I wonder sometimes... Even those that have claimed to be the most honest and demand much honesty in return have turned out to let me down... as I'm sure I let them down. It's difficult to do, because you're right, you have to be HONEST with yourself first...

Our motivations often cloud our judgment, thus our tendency to bare the complete "truth" wanes...

posted March 03, 2009 07:31 PM           

This looks interesting too: http://www.astrobarry.com/2009/mar109.php

Yeah, I think my Venus is doing this all the time.

It's funny. I see it happening now to couples around me. I think I'm used to it, lol. Well, maybe not.

Hey Ghani!

Honesty is crazy. Man.

We all disappoint each other. Maybe our expectations are too high.

All of us so full of innocence and hope... disappointing and being disappointed.

Don't you just feel the most incredible empathy for everyone sometimes?

Doesn't your heart grow restless with desire to go to them?

And don't you wish you knew what to say to make everything clear and good?

And your heart breaks, because all you can think to say is the name of God.

But maybe their ears are suddenly ready to receive the Word. . .

"Our motivations cloud our judgment"

Truer words were never spoken.

Hey Xena,

hmm... Maybe you are right.

Or maybe it is always untruth?

Always biased to one extreme?

Do we ever see each other clearly?

What would that even look like?

Would it be disinterested? Enamored?

Or would it somehow reconcile every impression we could ever give to anyone?

posted March 03, 2009 08:40 PM         

quote:

---

Rare is the relationship that stays honest with itself.

---

posted March 03, 2009 10:18 PM         

Not like the earlier relationships which started off with fireworks and then disintegrated from there.

posted March 04, 2009 08:19 AM         

By brutal, in my view, I do not mean cruel, but succinctly to the point.
That can be done kindly and or civilly.
I simply mean no white lies to spare someone's feelings. Once a person lies, even those tiny ones, in time too often it becomes an avalanche or lie addiction/habit, and the lying gets easier until all boundaries between truth and lies are blurred or eliminated.

posted March 04, 2009 09:00 AM         

I'm starting to get the feeling that I can't get away with that anymore - anytime I try to gloss over stuff that feels 'off' on some core level (despite all the hearts and flowers in the beginning), it comes back later to bite me HARD !
Maybe the bottom line is just to be honest with oneself first and foremost, despite all the little glamours we tend to cast in the beginning stages (as a 7th house Neptune person, I have learned this the hard way)...

I've never shied away from intensity and shadowy parts of others, and have been guilty of bringing them out all too easily - extracting them like a healer poking at a wound to make it bleed. As great as that is though, I have found it really painful for the other, because maybe they aren't ready to face that part of themselves and I am prematurely forcing them. I feel I've overstepped my bounds when I do so at times.

posted March 05, 2009 01:18 AM           

It's hard to keep that phoniness up after awhile and eventually you get the real faulted person.

you might have high expectations, you seem to idealize women and are very romantic, so that's probably whats happening you falling in love with your projections.

posted March 05, 2009 01:45 AM           

They withdraw and close off.
But often they stay in the relationship,
and try to maintain the original faith,
and to hide their doubts from themselves,
and/or from their partners...
but the doubts keep creeping in.

And these questions come up:
Its natural to have doubts, even in the best relationships, right?
I mean, nobody feels romantically connected 100% of the time, right?

posted March 05, 2009 02:11 AM           

i project, and i think i can accept certain things --
i think that they won't be a problem, but then they irritate me over time.
And, honestly, i dont know if any of this is my fault or in my power to change.

but i am also looking for a very special woman.
Someone whose reality wont abrassively burst my bubbles.
You have to project a little, and kiss a few frogs,
before you can find your princess, right?

Sometimes we dont know who we want
until we have tried lots of people on.

I think I look for something very special...
And many people find connections like I've found and settle down and say, "This is good enough,"
but I am always looking for the perfect fit, and when i do settle down,
it will be with someone who is pretty damn close to a perfect fit.

I dont think it is entirely unrealistic.
I'm just a true Scorpio, and i need to find my soul mate;
someone i can merge deeply with, on a wide variety of levels.

Maybe I am just a dreamer...

And maybe I am just dreaming...

But I havent given up hope of finding her yet.

posted March 05, 2009 02:15 AM         

I have friends who have been together 20 years and who are very much in love. They've been through the wringer emotionally together and have had points when they wanted to call it quits. But then things got better and they remained together. I asked them what their secret was, and they said that even when things were really bad, they still had some amazing connections and were able to 'pull through' the hard times - not just because of faith (though of course it's important) but because they really felt like their own lives would not be better if they left each other. But the interesting thing is that each one of them said that IF they felt their lives would be better by not being together sometime down the road, then they would leave. If one or both outgrew the relationship, then they would part ways. But for now, things are going well. So let's just continue.
So there was this openness there, and a weird level of surrender and acceptance which I found really refreshing.

posted March 05, 2009 03:47 AM           

Sometimes we find that one person who can polish pieces of our hearts and let those few pieces shine through but our hearts can never be truly golden again because there are some tarnishes that are permanately smudged on our hearts and to think someone can truely polish all of those tarnishes away, is self defeating because no one person can do it, thats why we get heartbroken, we exspect the "special one" to completely polish our hearts, to want to bind their heart with ours, and to also have a golden heart but sometimes thats not always the case.

Also we should be happy to experience the aches, snuggles, kisses, warmth, comfort of love. We should be grateful someone came into our lives to take that split second to polish out hearts, to see us shine and if they go, they go and if they stay, rejoice. Stop worrying, stop exspecting, stop having doubts and just live, love, grow and let go and if you get hurt learn from it.

posted March 05, 2009 04:34 AM           

Cheshires analogy was good because most relationships are set up this way and the pain and the eventual let down involved is linked to your inner child, the abandoned little boy. I'd like to hear more of your story and perceptions.

Thank you for sharing.

posted March 05, 2009 05:23 AM         

I think one can overanalyse. I think people know whether they have that alchemy together to enable them to weather it when the gilt rubs off. I personally love it when the relationship gets more "real". I often don't trust the initial stages at all. It's too enmeshed with being horny, which can blind you. I don't think the initial stages are honest at all. You promise everything and can rarely deliver. This is how people become disappointed.

The alchemy can't be analysed. You either have it or you don't. Some relationships I've had I just knew from the beginning I should have ended and then stayed for years. I think strong relationships are ones that can tolerate the imperfections, the "dishonesty", if you want to term it such. I think you can move beyond that phase too, if you love enough. The two people understand that the tolerance threshold for imperfection is high, because that can only be demonstrated when they have confronted negative aspects of each other. And then they might decide to open up again. He/she loves me warts and all. I've experienced and am experiencing that. The mountain is hard to climb but the view of the valley is sweet.

I think I'm seeing relationships as a series of moments that might add up to a lifetime (to paraphrase Liz Greene). To label someone as your soulmate may well be true for you, but it can never incorporate the other person's view of you. A lot of it is just plain blind faith and hope.

I think what I am saying here is a little like what Mel is saying in her Beauty and Pluto thread. You will deal with the imperfections if the alchemy is there. If the alchemy isn't there - you won't. Someone leaving their tea-bag on the counter has been enough to send me running. Any excuse to leave. People should listen to their instincts. I will never know in the future whether a tea-bag incident might send my man running. All I can do is hope that it doesn't and try and respect his decision if he wants to leave me. Nothing is guaranteed in this lifetime.

Not that I am saying that non-alchemical (is that even a word?) relationships I've had were a waste of time. They weren't. So I don't know what I'm saying really.... hey I don't need to have an opinion to waffle about this subject hey?

posted March 05, 2009 07:19 AM           

The yearning is unbearable at times, I know.

Have faith.....She will come....When you least expect it.