posted March 14, 2010 10:26 PM         

Well, you might say, who cares about the mundane things? He might not have a job with real security but he might work hard just same and since YOU might not even have a job with real security etc... who's to say you should expect that from someone else?

(link to our birth data and some astro advice from the astrology forum friends) http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/203673.html

But that's not what this is all about.
It's really about Pluto.
And the 8th House.
And our soul lessons.

My life as an 8th House Sun, Mercury, and Pluto has been an experience of 8th house things and people. I have had male friends my entire life and most, if not all, have been troubled, and immersed in the darker side of life. I found this fascinating when I was very young... an exploration into territory I had not yet experienced. As I matured I found it depressing and yearned to find a way to make a difference in this dark world, especially for the young people before it broke their spirits and led them to a life of drugs, alcohol and crime... or to no life at all.
I have been taking college courses for years toward an education in the area of Human Services and I have been seeking the answers to this sadness through music, spirituality, and nature. My deepest and most guarded secret dream has been to run or participate in a camp for low-income children who are in bad situations without adult mentors and spiritual guidance.
I have had relationships (both friendships and romantic) over the years to what amounted to adult versions of these children I wanted to help... and I like to think I made a difference. I have been told by many of these men that I had a huge impact on them and their lives.
Lately, I have been thinking about where my OWN life has led me and I have been feeling bad about not having a husband (the traditional family) and not having the finer things in life. I have felt like my life has lacked meaning and substance and have felt deeply lonely and as if I am simply drifting through life day by day in a sea of meaninglessness. I have become depressed about my friends, feeling they have not progressed enough and deciding I did not want my daughter in their presence due to the way it might influence her. These grown friends are probably doing their very best to overcome their limitations in life but the influence of a friend only goes so far and the way their children are being raised, I feel like I would be a bad parent to immerse my child in their world. When she was very young she was not influenced but now that she is 7, she learns from them and copies their behaviors to an extent (such as musical choices etc). I have done a great deal of soul searching and have cut some people out of my life and have spent less time with others. This has contributed to my loneliness, but my daughter's well being will always come first... even above my own... unless my own well-being becomes so negatively affected that it in turn affects her, in which case I attempt to balance the scales again to care for us both.

I have met someone. Now, I meet lots of someones... and with some there is a little something... enough to explore the possibility of a friendship or a romantic relationship... but I have been thinking lately of the one truly meaningful love relationship with a man that I had in my life and I have been wondering if I will ever experience this again. I have been wondering if I will ever feel that strong of a connection to someone. This old flame was a Virgo with Scorp AC and Leo moon.

Now I meet someone. There is a huge connection. Every minute something else comes to light that makes us closer. He is a Scorpio with a Virgo moon (Venus and Mars) and now I know he has a Leo AC. I feel a longing to know this man. He mentions his college courses and I ask what he is studying and what he wants to do with his education and he says he is studying Human Services and wants to counsel troubled teens. This is before I tell him anything about my own educational goals etc. Anyone who knows me also knows what music means in my life... and how much I admire writing skills and depth in a man. This Scorpio man writes lyrics. Deep, intense, excellent lyrics. As good as or better than my own. And he writes the music to go with them. I can't do that. And he plays guitar. I am still learning that.
I am astounded that the Universe has brought this man into my life. I feel that I have been preparing for a deep love, and that my thoughts regarding the deepest loves I've had in my life up to this point have led to a knowledge of what I want in a man astrologically.

So, the Universe provides.

There's just one catch.

One amazingly huge deal-breaking catch.

What led him to this epiphany a year or ago that led to his desire to educate himself to help troubled teens to NOT go down the wrong path is that he went down the wrong path himself many times. That in itself would just be romantic but here is the ugly truth.

The man I am falling in love with
held a gun to someone's head.

Someone he knew took a bunch of things from his house so he went over to the guy's house and held a gun to his head and demanded the things back. He also took some of the guy's stuff for good measure. So, now he's going to prison for two years. In a month.

Now, here's me... telling myself I can't get involved with another violent man after spending damn near 5 years of my life fighting to protect my daughter from the violent man I married and conceived her with. Telling myself that my family will never accept him once they find out about his criminal activity. Telling myself in my deepest fears and "rational thinking" that I have no idea how much of an epiphany he had and what if in the future there is a gun to my head with my daughter as the witness.

And yet, me being the ****** up person I am, is still so very glad to hear his voice when he called tonight and at this very moment, is looking forward to his call later this evening. Me, who always wondered what kind of woman would be willing to carry on a relationship with a guy in prison, is mentally calculating how much stamps will cost me for 2 years.

Yes, I do think to myself that connections like this don't come along every day and we can just be friends and get to know each other. But my rational self is telling me that I am already falling for this guy and years writing letters to this excellent, deep writer is not going to develop just a friendship. He said him "going away" is the reason he was not trying to start anything right now, and yet worked forced us to see each other every day (before I knew about his criminal activity) and things grew anyway. Then we had this wonderful night out as friends together (where I sadly learned these things) and ended it with him taking pictures of me and his (and my) new Taurus friend (and then he and I together) so he could "take some memories with him". I will always remember that he said that night, very sadly and quietly... "just when I finally met some good people."

I have a feeling that by the end of this month he could tell me he had a plan to run away to Mexico and I would say, "So, what's this plan?" I mean, not really, but this seriously feels like the Freaking Fate Freight-train.

I keep wondering what I am supposed to learn here and wondering how I can remain detached enough to share a friendship that God has put us together to share... share the things I am meant to share for his healing and learn the things I am meant to learn for my own healing.

During all of the deep soul searching I have been doing for last year, I came to the conclusion just recently that my judgments of my old friends and my fears that I was failing at life because I had gone down the wrong path by spending time with them were just that... fears. If I would not have married my violent ex, I would not have had my daughter and she is the one thing I am 100% certain is not a mistake in my life. I went back to reading all of the books I had read before I met the Virgo/Scorpio way back before I ever had my daughter or got married, and I had just started feeling like myself again.
And now it seems the past is revisiting me and I being a given the chance to make a different choice. God/The Universe is saying...ok, so you had been thinking for a year now that reading Marianne Williamson's book "A Return To Love" made you so loving and forgiving and understanding that you were willing to love, forgive and understand things you shouldn't from people you shouldn't and by doing that you ruined your own life and sacrificed part of your very soul. It all started with the Virgo/Scorpio man who you felt you had the deepest relationship in your life after you had read that book. I gave you a message in a book you read just the other day... "The Five People You Meet In Heaven" and I told you that life was about sacrifice. That we all are meant to sacrifice for each other. You cried with joy that your life had not been a waste and you finally trusted again that you were and are where you are meant to be.

Now

Prove your Faith.

posted March 15, 2010 12:36 AM         

quote:

---

telling myself I can't get involved with another violent man after spending damn near 5 years of my life fighting to protect my daughter from the violent man I married and conceived her with.

---

This is why I don't think you should continue this relationship. It screams that it's a test. I feel, and I could be totally wrong here, but I feel that this sort of test happens to people to see if they really mean what they've been trying to accomplish. If they give in, all is lost. The cycle continues. Again. I also believe if you pass the test you are free forever because you did it. You proved to yourself that you could do it and you did change. You broke the cycle.

I also believe that after that you get what you worked for -- finally.

posted March 15, 2010 07:05 AM         

Thank you from deep in my heart for saying that, Diana. I needed that said so I could look at it fully. And I still am not sure (at least my brain isn't) and have to make sure I think it fully through... but like you said, I should probably go with my gut over my brain. Ahh, I have more to share about meditation revelations but I have to at least start the getting ready for work process.

posted March 15, 2010 10:39 AM         

From "One Day My Soul Just Opened Up" by Iyanla Vanzant

Morning Faith Affirmation

I am the walking, talking, living embodiment of FAITH.
I breathe in FAITH.
I live through FAITH.
I see everything through FAITH-filled eyes.
I speak with FAITH.
I listen in FAITH.
I know that FAITH can, when I cannot!
I know the FAITH is always, under all circumstances, and in all situations, the blessed activity of the Holy Spirit moving in my life.
For this I am so grateful!
And So It Is!

posted March 15, 2010 01:32 PM         

You know you can't pursue this relationship at the moment.

But it brought you hope, and you can't quite let that go. It made you feel good, better than you had in ages.

So, how about you don't give it up? That you stay friends, you write to each other, and you make no commitments or steps towards a relationship until he's served his time and you have the opportunity to get to know him better?

I am usually a black and white person, but there seems some scope for shades of grey here!

posted March 15, 2010 02:06 PM         

It's said that women have a "love map" formed quite early on where they replicate in some form or another the man who made the biggest impact (good or bad)upon them.
I don't think you are being given any spiritual test. I think you are just attracted to that type of man.
I'm sorry to be blunt but if you are being given any cosmic message it's
"How to steer my daughter away from the mistakes I made"

And that is not trying to rationlise spending years sending love missives to someone in prison.
What could he possibly give you? Would you feel safe because you could have a "pseudo relationship" with the type of man you are attracted to but that couldn't harm you because he's behind bars?
You want this man to show you that not all men are abusive and that there is redemption in men of this type so that you can justify the bad choices you made earlier in your life.
We all make bad choices in our lives. That's how we learn.
This my love is not a bad choice, it's a ridiculous one.

posted March 15, 2010 02:32 PM         

What you are saying does make sense - the need to allow him to redeem himself and generate a better outcome than has gone before.

posted March 15, 2010 02:55 PM         

the fact that the similarities are so strong between the energies of this guy and the one you remember...should be a clue. you cannot recreate the past. and certainly not with someone who is going to the big house for an indefinite period.

i have always wondered what makes women marry lifers...not that your guy is one! but i think they are people who, like you, have a lot of 8th house issues and the only way they can explore them SAFELY is with someone who will permanently be behind bars, ie, they are having their cake and eating it too.

but prison has a way of confirming the negative tendencies of its inmates, not negating them.

i recently knew a man who had spent most of his life (11-25) in and out of correctional facilities. he had trouble denying himself anything, so stole a car as a boy...the end of the story is that despite years of incarceration, an anger problem and poor health, he learned to cultivate a positive attitude and to envision a better life...and just as he was about to "get there" he was killed.

your friend's remark that "just as he was meeting good people at last" reminded me of this young man, and his internalized belief that whenever things were going well the big fist in the sky would appear to knock him back!!

i'm rambling here but maybe diana is right, you are going thru a test of your resolve to disengage from violent men...? to me your daughter is added reinforcement of that.

posted March 15, 2010 05:35 PM         

Eskimono, thank you for your loving support.

Bunnies, I am most grateful to you and needed your words. They just might save me.
I wanted to mention that my daughter never experienced the violence of my ex-husband. He held his hands around my throat twice and the second time, that was it. She was asleep when it happened. He had a violent criminal past and he had lied to me about it until I was wrapped up in him and we had been together for 6 months and I was not strong enough to leave him. That makes me think I am supposed to be strong enough to leave this new man... but if I would have left my husband, my daughter would not exist. If I would have done the smart, rational thing... my daughter would not exist.

The truth is, I will have to know him much better before knowing exactly who he is and where he is... I can trust my intuition and senses... they have always been true. But the truth is, I cannot trust myself. I can sense things and then push them away. Also, Bunnies has a point about my sensing the bad boy and playing it out. I have wondered that frequently. I have just read so often that I need to accept myself and the path I am on while working to reach closer to God. I just can't think that sitting around every night watching Wheel of Fortune while I hide from every person God puts in my path is the right example for my daughter on how to survive and grow in the world either. And you should seeee the people God has put in my path. And there are plenty of men out in the world who do pummel women with their fists etc and I have never been attracted to or experienced THAT. So either my "script" doesn't go that far or this is something else I am supposed to learn. Either way, it does feel like a cruel joke. And it also feels unstoppable. But hopefully that is a cop out and I can bend fate and life to my will... oh wait, isn't that black magic? I do have to go back to Faith here. If I can't believe in that, I have nothing to believe in and I won't survive to care for my daughter and set a good example anyway. I don't know what to do. All I know is that I missed working with him today... deeply. I'm sure I am crazy. I wonder often if astrology is making me crazy too.

Katatonic, you bring up a great point about my Sun being progressed. I was just about to latch onto that when I remembered it was probably in Scorpio, even if it was out of the 8th. :/

posted March 15, 2010 08:39 PM         

You need to do what's best for you and your child. Getting involved in this situation, with this man, at this time, is not what's best. And i know you know this. And i know you know what you have to do, but i also know that it doesn't make it any easier, or less heartbreaking.

posted March 16, 2010 08:16 AM         

DO WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS STUFF OR WHAT?????

Love and Karma

Love is the most powerful force in the Universe. Not time, birth, death, or rebirth can finally separate those wh o have formed a deep mental, spiritual, or physical bond. The soul's affinity has been established, and those who know or have known love will always be "one."

Physical separation and parting for more than a short period of time, as we know it, is absolutely impossible. Mental separation is unknown on a subconscious level. Communication will always continue, although it may not be consciously perceived.

Lovers from the past will reincarnate within the same time frame again and again. Although they will not remember events of their past lives when they meet in their next life, they will be strongly attracted to each other, and love will be renewed.

In each new incarnation the love will deepen; hopefully it will grow more unselfish, until, after many lives, love is perfected.

People with whom you have a deep bond in this life have been close to you in a previous lifetime. You may have been lovers, friends, or relatives. The relationship could have been that of parent/child. But if you are intimately involved with another individual in your present life, the chances are great that you have been together in another time and in another place.

You were reborn to be with those you have known before. You were guided and maneuvered by unseen help from the other side, and by your own subconscious, intuitive, and extrasensory abilities to seek each other out again.

SO, DO WE BELIEVE THIS OR NOT? BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE DID. THAT WOULD MEAN I'M NOT THE ONLY NUTSO ONE AND ALL OF MY WISE FRIENDS ARE AS WELL.

Either way, you all have put a big dam in the way of my out of control emotions... and I needed that. But one thing I am clear on... I will love and bless this man even if means I simply pray for him every night. I will talk with him and interact with him as much as he and I can both handle and will learn to back off the emotions. That is probably my most important lesson. To control my emotions.

I will trust he is the angel God has sent for me.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000709.html

(The passage above on Love and Karma is from the book, "You Were Born Again To Be Together" by Dick Sutphen)

posted March 16, 2010 04:49 PM         

plus jailhouse religion can start well before the sentence, many people get a new leaf that doesnt always sustain itself once the whole deal is over and done with.

posted March 16, 2010 04:53 PM         

without the expectations. it is a safe friendship while he is away. conecting without fear of life changes. its ok to need that mel. just be careful.

some may ask, how is dating a convicted criminal safe, easy ..he is not there. in her space.

like how is loving a married man safe? it is because there is no threat, no expectation that this person will change your life.

posted March 16, 2010 05:18 PM         

Second, I will say that I do agree with all the points made here, especially Bunnies, Diana, and CPN, and also Kat.

I know my own mother made choices which she regretted when she married (for her second husband) a man who was abusive to her - never to me. She always tried to protect me from him, and divorced him out of fear of what he would do to me. In a lot of ways my mother made lousy choices with men - from my father, who was a nice, but very non-confrontational man, to a very abusive one, all the way through a couple of real dorks (in my eyes as a child)... until she met my stepfather, and they married immediately (like, within a month). Of all things, she asked me what I thought of him, and I said , 'Marry him.' (I was 9). So she did lol.
In truth, my stepfather is the best man I know. He is kind, generous, loyal... he's got it all. They've been together for 26 years, and are happy together. They have a *good* relationship and are in love.

I guess I am saying all of this because I wonder how old your daughter is, and if she is part of the process of dating at all in your life? You say you don't trust yourself - does your daughter ever meet the men in your life, or is she kept separate? Of course it's tricky business I would think to get a man to meet your kid. I just think kids in general have a very good sense for people, especially kids who are raised by single parents. It's like all of their senses are honed into that one parent because instead of 2, they have one, so they have more of an emotional investment in that ONE parent. They often see things as well that their parent does not. Often they will feel it is their job to be watchful and protective, you know what I mean?

No one says you should waste away watching Wheel of Fortune or whatever. I think that's rather drastic. I think there is nothing wrong with being friends with this man if you want friendship. But if you barely know him, I think it's probably easy to project what he can represent - closure, or faith testing, etc... I'm not saying turn him away, but more like why make such an emotional investment in someone you don't know and are already getting red flags about?

I hope that makes sense.

posted March 16, 2010 08:44 PM         

It's good to see you on here - I've always been a huge fan of your no-nonsense advice/approach

posted March 17, 2010 09:07 AM         

Cpn, how right you are about the mother connection. I don't know that I delight in shocking her... it is more of a dread, and most of why I blabbed the truth about this to all of you is to receive some responses near to what my mother would say without having to hear them from her mouth. Then I can explore those responses without the resistance I would have were I to hear the objections from her. I often think I haven't been able to quit smoking again (after starting this last summer when I was in my deep depression) because I always hear her voice in my head and then I rebel and say, "I'm doing the best I can!" and light up. So, yeah, there is something there, my wise and therapeutic sisters.

Bunnies, thank you for taking on the Mom role and dealing with my resistance and still hanging around. Appreciated with love.

Also, a man who would be at the development level that he would make those wrong choices is obviously not the man who I could trust to make the right decisions as the head of a family. I'm clear on that from the start... it simply hurt finding it out and I grasped for what the meaning of the relationship might be because it felt so fated. It was like he stood out in full color when most of the others in my life are practically void of color. I could not deny him. Part of me questioned what this strange magic could be... is it really God/The Benevolent Force of the Universe who is Lighting these people up in my life or am I being led astray? I had finally made peace that is was indeed God placing these Beings in my life only a week before I met this man and I had to have Faith... but I still wanted to know where the careening train of Faith was taking me... if there is ever really a way to Know. Fully.

Two were born to cross their paths, their lives, their hearts. If by chance, once turns away, are they forever lost?
~Michael Timmons

"Yes, in a very real and deep sense they are lost, but not forever. Just in this lifetime. What is lost is the they that could have set the world on fire with their passion and purpose. The they that could have ransomed and returned a portion of the world's lost heart together, just as they were intended to ransom and return a portion of each other's lost heart."
~ from Something More by Breathnach

I just want to fulfill this without screwing it up with my own childish fantasies or fears. There is a calm medium somewhere that will benefit us all, I think. It is challenging, but I am willing.

posted March 17, 2010 10:33 AM         

you are an amazing woman
doing an amazing job
and have my utmost respect.

it will all come full circle in due time!

posted March 17, 2010 10:45 AM         

But one image that came to mind on the first day I read it, was Mel Gibson in the film "Braveheart" where everybody's clamming to go into battle and he's shouting "Hold! Hooooooold!".

Not this one. Hold!

posted March 17, 2010 06:17 PM         

comfooooorttttt
Where's my blankey?