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Author Topic:   Disturbing Dream
Lialei
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posted September 10, 2006 08:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message
About a week ago I had a very disturbing dream.

In it, I was returning to my house (not mine in real life) after work. As I entered the front door and turned around to shut it, I saw a neighbor standing in the doorway. He was an older, thin, black-haired man (someone I don't actually know in life).
He began interrogating me, asking where I had been, and why did it take me so long to return home?! His voice was angry and accusatory and I felt rebellious at the intrusive nature of his tone. I told him it was none of his freaking business, and went to shut the door, but he tried to barge through it regardless. We wrestled for a minute with the door and finally I won and slammed and locked it.

Then the dream changed and suddenly I was in another room. It was dim-lit...I heard crying and screams...a struggle. I looked closer, and saw two obese, shaven-headed men. Twins. I looked closer and realized they were raping me. (I was out of body, looking on).
The men were cheering each other on.

I went running to the phone, and frantically rang my (ex) husband. I was crying, so distraught, asking him to come right away...

"please, help me. Please, you've got to come home and save me! "

Now, I pretty much have the dream figured out. I think it involves subconscious fears/grievings that in the light of day I never allow myself to think about. I'm getting divorced in a few days.
One thing about my husband, I always felt protected in his presence. (something I never really thought about until this dream ) And regardless of all of my independance and everything bad that happened between us, I suppose it's only natural that part of me subconsciously grieves for the 13 years of having his silent strength by my side.

But one thing I can't figure out, is why Twins? Is there significance to that?
Why were the men twins?

And also, I wonder if there is any significance to being out of body, witnessing.

Does anyone have anyone have any thoughts?
I would greatly appreciate any insights.

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D for Defiant
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posted September 12, 2006 05:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
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fayte.m
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posted September 12, 2006 09:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Twins?
Maybe it means a sense of being violated by men you trusted who pull you different directions. They are obese because they have fed well off your compassion but greedily want more whether you want to give or not. Twins...all men are seeming alike. At least when you are feeling helpless and used.
Out of body? A detachment of self from the abuse you do not want to feel yet still witness it helplessly.

Maybe the man you do not know and would not let in represents men in general who you fear would try to control you and everything you do and not trust you. Or trust themselves so try to foist their guilt onto you.

I will think on this more.

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Lialei
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posted September 12, 2006 10:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I feel a bit speechless at the moment,
so please forgive me if I'm not clear.
Everything both of you have mentioned is true. All of it.

My final divorce hearing is tomorrow morning, DFD. It was supposed to final a couple of months ago, but it was prolonged, due to difficulties (he didn't want to sign the papers). These past couple of years have been painful indeed and at times I thought I wouldn't survive it. I'm aware I'm doing the right thing,so many signs and feelings affirm it to me, but it has been agonizing and a drawn out battle of which I've had to exhaust every bit of strenth from my spirit to overcome. It's not something I would ever feel right about celebrating. I loved him dearly with all my heart once.

And yes...I'm also simultaneously having another very painful experience, something of which no doubt it so traumatic for me, that I deny myself from fully experiencing the pain of it, for fear of what it would do to me if I did.
I've only discussed it with a select few whom I have felt safe with. Otherwise, I keep it quiet to myself. It seems to come hardest in the quiet of night...all of it, the divorce, the other and I've cried myself to sleep many times and have nightmares almost nightly now, as the finality of it all closes in on me. I guess I do feel my trust in people has been shattered, for the two I loved and trusted most in this world are the ones who have hurt me the most...

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Lialei
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posted September 12, 2006 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message
...There was another part to the dream that I left out, about my mother. I guess I left it out, because I felt it might be distracting. Before I called my husband for help, my Mom was in the room and I was begging for her to help me, "Mom, I'm being raped! Please, look! MOm! Please! help me"...but she kept walking on, not paying any notice, although I was trying desperately to get her to realize what was happening.

My Mom has been extremely supportive in every way through my divorce, so immediately I knew it wasn't about that. I wondered if instead, it didn't represent that fragile part of me that will always be a little girl inside. At one time, she was my protector in life...then my husband. It's a growing away thing...once from her, then him...to entirely on my own.

I am strong, and have grown so much in so many ways through these past couple of years, entirely determined and capable of anything life brings me,alone. I have no doubts I will be ok. I also mave made beautiful magical new connections and have had amazing positive experiences.
But I couldn't deny that a part of me feels damaged, and I'm not sure how long it would take to heal.

Fayte, that was very insightful about the Twins. I think their obesity and how they respresent men to me, both true. And you and DFD, both very insightful about being out of body as a way of protection from things to traumatic to face head on.
Both of your presences here is so comforting just now
I wouldn't know how to being to express how meaningful it is to me. Thank you.

Cheers to beautiful friendships and sky-blue open horizons.

~Lia

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Lialei
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posted September 12, 2006 10:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message
..also the thing about men trying to control me...that has been the battlefield of which I've dredged all my fighting spirit to rebelliously overcome and soar onwards Free. I feel like I haven't replied well to all you've both said. I have to leave for work now, but hope to return. Thank you both again, dearly.

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D for Defiant
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posted September 13, 2006 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
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Ra
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posted September 13, 2006 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ra     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Lialei

Wow ... you three have a great dynamic going here and I'm not going to interfere with it. Thanks D and Fayte.

D for Defiant, you are showing some great insight ... you've done this before, right? You are a natural. You seem to understand Lialei's symbology pretty well.

I'll just say, for the sake of corroboration, that I would say the same about the twin symbology as well as the detachment symbology. Twins can represent conflict, opposing internal forces ... and they can represent balance, or the process of balancing. Being out of body in the dream suggests emotional detachment from an issue ... in your case there are probably several layers to this.

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fayte.m
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posted September 13, 2006 11:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Ra
Lia and D for Defiant

Yes Ra, DFD has great insight!
I hope she keeps trying her hand at dream interpretation.
You are a natural DFD!

Lia, I am glad you can now move on. Take your time. {{{*}}}

About your Mom in the dream.
I think it might represent that normally you do not want her to run your life or pry into your privacy. But at times you wish she would perhaps?
But it often seems to be it can only be an all or nothing thing?
Just guessing.
So you detached(OBE) and saved yourself in your own way.
I will think on this some more.
Good Night!

------------------
Age is a State of Mind. Change Your Mind!
~I intend to continue learning forever~Enigma
~I am still learning~ Michangelo
The Door to Gnosis is never permanently locked...one only needs the correct keys and passwords.~Enigma
The pious man with closed eyes can often hold more ego than a proud man with open eyes.~NEXUS
Out of the mouth of babes commeth wisdom that can rival that of sages.~Enigma
In the rough, or cut and polished..a diamond is still a precious gem.
-NEXUS-

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D for Defiant
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posted September 14, 2006 04:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
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Ra
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posted September 14, 2006 04:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ra     Edit/Delete Message
Very interesting, D.

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Lialei
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posted September 14, 2006 02:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message
dp


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Lialei
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posted September 14, 2006 02:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Thank you, Ra, Defiant and Fayte.

D and Fayte, I will return and reply soon to the new insights you've brought up.
For now, I want to say, I agree with Ra...Defiant, both you and Fayte have a natural gift for dream interpretation.
This is something that goes beyond knowledge or intuition. A gifted and genuine dream interpretor is respectful and questioning, never presumptuous. They ask questions of the dreamer, aware that the dreamer themselves are their own best interpreters.
They humble with the awareness that they are offering guides. They may offer an insight that perhaps hadn't occurred to the dreamer. They may offer different ways of seeing things...and this can be valuable to get an objective perspective as sometimes it's hard for us to see beyond clouded subjectivity. But they hold no definitive answers. They guide. This is why I have utmost respect and faith in Ra's abilities, because I've sensed that she holds this awareness and respect herself.

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Lialei
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posted September 14, 2006 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message

For instance, say a person dreamt of a Bear.
A good dream interpreter would wonder about what the dreamer's personal feelings and experiences of Bears are. They wouldn't go to a dream book, look up "Bear" and offer that as a conclusion. Sure as Jung wrote of, there is collective archetypical symbolism, but not always is the symbolism collective. Each dream has different potential. A symbol to one person, may be something altogether different to someone else. Each person is unique...their experiences unique, their impressisons unique. Perhaps one person had a traumatic experience with a bear? If an interpreter was ignorant to this, the entire meaning of the dream could shift and the dreams truer message overlooked.

I am glad to hear you are interested in pursuing dream-knowledge, Defiant and encourage you.
Freud was a brilliant man, but his broader perception (IMHO) became clouded in subjectivity. He projected his own Mother issues (not to mention gender stereotype/bigotry) into dream interpretation...not respectful that others had different maternal experiences which would have made the meaning of their dreams unique to themselves. Dreams are the most unlimited and free Soulful experience we can possibly experience in our restrictive Earth casing. At night, our Souls become free. The possibilities should never be outlined, nor definitively defined...for there are no true boundaries but the one's we consciously erect.

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Lialei
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posted September 14, 2006 03:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message
dp (double-posted)

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Lialei
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posted September 14, 2006 03:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message
(have to split my posts up, sorry)

D, I appreciate your guidance so much, and expressed my awe at your compassion in your thread in Universal Codes. It's something I would have never asked of you, considering what you are going through....and yet you offered on your own. I've been awed by that.

I have saved myself.
I wish I could summon the energy to type the details...but finally as of yesterday, I am Free.
I have the reassurance that I can hold myself with Dignity in knowing, that through it all, I kept in mind what is most meaningful and balanced to my best ability compassion for everyone involved, yet also unswayingly held on to my own Truth and Freedom with Integrity and Care.


All the encouragement you have given, D and Fayte, through this time has been immeasurable. (here and outside the forums) I'm humbled.

Will return sometime soon to explain more of why I left that part out about my Mom, D.
It wasn't for any reasons other than might be explained by what I wrote of my beliefs of dream interpretation above, but will elaborate when I have more time.

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D for Defiant
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posted September 15, 2006 04:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
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Lialei
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posted September 15, 2006 10:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message
D,
There is so much,I don't know where to begin. I agree, there's much about my relationship with my Mother that is worth exploring. As you can probably see from the direction I zig-zagged in this thread, I'm often torn between reaching out, to then emotionally disattatching from the very things I want to confront.

It has been imperative for me, I've felt to go deeply inwards into myself these past couple of years, and in many ways, I withdrew from a lot of people, because I didn't want to be distracted from other's opinions/advice. I wanted to be sure in the future, that All of my decisions came from my own Truth, as these decisions were so critically Life-altering for everyone involved.
I have became so aware, how people project their images of how they see you onto you, which have nothing to do with the Truth of who you are and in many ways, this was an issue with my husband. I began to feel imprisoned by it, for it wasn't of me.
It's like you are imprisoned by a far away image of the past, although your Being is ever-growing and has in so many ways evolved beyond what was.

My Mom has been entirely supportive in so many ways that I'm grateful. And our relationship has always been unjudgemntal and close for the most part my entire life
. I've always felt comfortable talking to her about any issue, whether personal or not. But, also in many ways we are different people. Our perceptions and reactions entirely different. So, through the divorce, I reacted in ways that she didn't understand or agree with. But these ways were intune with mySelf and influenced by all I had learned of my own experience and life-long questing into the Spiritual.

Fayte, what you said about being torn between not wanting interference and yet wanting it, I think is true. But the thing is, I don't want interference in any way...but I still do yearn for the reassurance of understanding and compassion.
I want both/all, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

So, in many ways, I isolated myself in my inner Quest through this tumultuous time, and then at times the isolation (that I had induced, keeping others at bay)made me feel uncared for, which brought periods of depression. And this isn't exclusive to my Mother..., while forming new bonds of friendship, I dissattatched from many people of my past. Perhaps, because I wanted to break free entirely from the restrictions I felt from past-formed perceptions of me that wouldn't understand, nor perceive the huge Transmutation/ReBirth that I felt I was going through.

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Lialei
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posted September 15, 2006 11:00 AM           Edit/Delete Message
As for my Mother, oftentimes she felt I was too soft on my husband,because I didn't meet his level and return spite for spite. But it was a misperception that still to this day I have a difficult time getting others to understand.
It was influenced from a HUGE REBELLION within me to not let anyone outside of myself steal my power, by manipulating my reactions. It is often entirely misperceived as something other than it is.
This defiance in me, is fierce...I feel it is giving yourself away to let other's manipulate reactions from you, which otherwise wouldn't be natural of yourself.

There was a profound experience that occurred while I was still living with my husband, before I knew I had to leave entirely. (We already agreed on the divorce, but were still living together for practical reasons).

He put me through day after day constant interrogation and aggressive confrontations.
Months and months of it, relentless. I never realized I could summon so much strength to endure it but I did. My exhusband was VERY Aries (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Saturn, NNode), so maybe that would help describe the force I was up against daily. (He had discovered that I had another Love~~he was hurt. I understood this, and couldn't help but feel compassion for his own suffering).

At one point, as he was forcefully in my face, yelling accusations at me, and trying to manipulate me with guilt, I felt myself inwardly entirely detatch from myself, as if I were above myself, looking downwards, entirely objectively for the first time; calmly just listening, and a feeling of freedom and peace filled me. It wasn't entirely an OBE in the literal sense, but the feeling was exactly the same. I believe it was a protective defense, and from that point onwards, I Freed myself. The divorce proceedure was paperwork and legalities, inwardly at that moment, is when I feel I symbolically, spiritually divorced myself from his grip/control.

Anyway, to explain why I left the part out about my Mom, was because maybe for different reasons. One being, I have too much to deal with right now concerning men, and I can't take on more, I have to priortize, otherwise it becomes too much.
Another is, that I feel that part was for me to explore, and that I feared, like I said, that the rest of the dream's message might be distracted by focus on my mother. And that possibly there would be conclusions drawn from it that wouldn't personally apply to my relationship with her.

But that doesn't mean I don't think it's a worthy thing that needs exploring. And I appreciate you're wanting to explore it with me.

Well, there is so much even with this lengthy post I feel I haven't begun to touch on it, but hope it helps a bit anyway.
Ra, what you wrote about the opposing nature of the twins could be very true too.
My husband and the other man, are pole opposites, the other, more intune with who I truly am...and this has been a profound theme I keep reoccuring in my life in my relationships.

Thanks again guys.

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Lialei
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posted September 15, 2006 12:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Just wanted to add that,
in many ways I have felt exploited by men.
(sexually as an attractive object, emotionally in many ways).
My compassionate heart greedily devoured
and eventually always returned to as if an endless utilizing supply. My empathy and non-judgementalism, relied upon no matter the cruelty.
I've looked hard and painfully at my part...but again and again battle temptation by the pure care that moves me and always sees deeper into subconscious motivations that are so ingrained by past hurt to them that they aren't conscious of themselves.

I know they don't mean to hurt me.
Not knowing, would be so much easier.

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fayte.m
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posted September 15, 2006 01:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Lia I totally understand dear lovely lady
You are strong. Many folks would have crumbled long ago or gone on a vengence kick.


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Lialei
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posted September 16, 2006 10:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message
thanks for your empathy and encouragement,
Fayte

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D for Defiant
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posted September 16, 2006 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
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Lialei
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posted September 16, 2006 08:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Well, you have brought up some good points.
I wasn't being secretive. I had no problem telling of it, which is why I did.
I did so, because you had brought up noticing how the dream was male-dominated, so at that point, I felt it fairer to tell about my Mom being in it, so as not to mislead you in anyway. Initially I suppose I was more concerned with certain things in the dream over others. Because I have critical situations in my life currently that made me feel that focusing on the men-part needed to be addressed quickly.

But yeah. I can see how that isn't fair to the interpretor not to have the broadest story they can, just in case it all ties together in some way that the dreamer might not be aware.

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Lialei
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posted September 16, 2006 08:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message
quote:
And I do not concur this. It is highly unusual for someone who intends to have a dream interpreted who consciously and deliberately leaves out some part of the dream-

"consciously and deliberately" seems to question if I had malicious or devious intent or something.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive these days with people who generalize and label people like they're a scientific study or mechanism to be inspected and stamped with a label and stored away indefinately as "is". Which is someone else's projection that most often has little to do with who the person really is. I would admit, that maybe this might have had part in why I chose to leave that out. To leave no availibity for assumptions.

Maybe that isn't trustful of people?
Maybe I should have more faith in others?
Maybe so...
but I've found more often than not, unfortionately,
that it's human behavior to be presumptuous, stereotyping, and generalizing.

There are special people who aren't that way.
I know a few myself, and appreciate them.

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