posted January 19, 2009 03:52 PM         

She spoke to me in private. She said that book was not appropriate for someone my age (if she had known I had been reading that stuff since I was a child!!!). I lied saying that I accidentally found it when looking for a nature book (I knew where each one of those books were, I had read some several times...) and I promised not to do it again if she didn't tell my father. I don't know if she did or not but I never knew anymore about it...

Yes, confessing that to the priest was actually mortifying. Not liberating as it was supposed to be. In fact, what was really liberating was abandoning my faith. I would never lead my children to a religion that can become so denigrating. And I will never practice it again.

posted January 19, 2009 10:24 PM         

quote:

---

As far as transits go this year, you have pluto getting closer to an oppositon with the ruler of your rising.
You have saturn in sept, conj your sun, and mars and sun returning to there positions.
You have jupiter (asc ruler) opposing your saturn/venus conj in the 8th.

---

Nothing scary, just an unfolding of your core beliefs, value system and getting a more concrete sense of who you are.With pluto entering the picture it may not be a bad time to consider counseling, as this planet has a tendency to drudge up the muck in our minds, presenting them to us to be dealt with.

With pluto opp rising, you'll experience some sort of transformation in your belief system, likely to occur through a relationshhip and effects your self image,perhaps even your body.

Your saturn conj sun echos this in that it falls in the house of beliefs and religion, and shows that you will be building an identity while forming up a belief system. Your values are brought to your attention and you will have a better sense of who you are.

When jupiter hits your sat/venus, I would think this brings about some sort of opening up in this sexual area where you have been very closed. Again things point to a relationship bringing this about, and a value system that expands,becoming more positive.

If I may ask, are you heterosexual? The reason I ask is that it is one of the possible interpretations of your chart: that you are confused about your sexual identity and fearful of expressing yourself, etc. Both planets that represent women are aspected in a way that could represent this. Is it possible you are struggling with your sexual identity?

posted January 20, 2009 04:52 PM         

It's funny because it did cross my mind... if I became a lesbian it would be much easier because I would never have to face my terror to penetration or men in the romantic/sexual aspect... But the only thought of it puts me off... No, no... I'm into men... and that's the real issue, because I desire them and fear them at the same time...

This cousin who keeps appearing in my dream was very close to me when we were children. We were like sisters. In fact she felt more like a sister than my own. We were brought up together. We have grown a bit apart over the years now...

Now that you say that we did play together a couple of times (completely dressed though) when we were young teenagers... It was quite inocent, kind of curious discovery of sensations... and that was it... We have been close friends for many years... We used to share our stories about men...

posted January 20, 2009 10:28 PM         

If it is the physical act, chances are if it even does hurt, it will only be brief and so minor. [and if I may speak frankly, you could alway eliminate that obsticle yourself]

Fear usually blows things out of proportion. But you probably already know this, in your head. It's more likely a feeling that over rides what you logically know to be not that scary.(and I know from personal experience that any fear is not to be laughed at because to the person who has it, it is very real)

Is there no scenerio that you could think of that makes you say to yourself 'well, under those circumstances, it wouldn't be so bad...'?

(if I get to personal you can just ignore it and I'll understand)I'm just one of those people who has no embarassment talking about anything.

Is your guy nice enough or trustworthy enough that you can talk to him about your concerns? You are missing out on a lot of pleasure.

posted January 21, 2009 02:29 AM         

What if when I get very close with a man, when we are almost there, I retreat in panic and he becomes impatient? What if he, not understanding, pushes, forces me?

But there is also an spiritual component to this... It's also fear of being abandoned, of being stripped off my purity, my integrity... As a Virgo that has always been vital... I've always identified that with sex... Nowadays, most guys only want to have fun without compromise... and you only find out when they got what they wanted. You naïvely build your own story of neverending love and they suddenly fade away.

I don't know why I'm so terribly scared of being abandoned. For me, virginity is not only physical but emotional and spiritual. I will be very vulnerable the day I hand it over. I know I will, even more due to my deep fear... It will be like surrendering, trusting a man to the limit... I fear of being abused, not only physically but spiritually... because I will lose control of myself to blindly trust someone who could scar me off forever... Saturn has to do with self-containment, with boundaries, with integrity... in the sex house... with Venus...

Yes, my guy is very nice. When it comes the time, when sex is a posibility, I think I will be able to tell him... I'm not sure he will understand being a man, I'm sure he didn't come across something like that in his life. Specially because I may panic when we are getting close to the moment... I don't fully understand either... It's a lot to ask to a man, especially when most girls are so easy to get nowadays...

The ideal scenario would be that I'm sure that the man is there to stay, that he has been there some time proving that he loves me... that I'm not just fun... that I'm special... that he can wait for me... I need to feel that he loves me and will love me whatever happens. Then I think I will be able to physically relax enough to bear it the first time... It's tension what would make it more painful... If I get through the first time and he remains there with me, I think I will be fine...

posted January 21, 2009 01:40 PM         

I understand what you mean when you say there is a spiritual component to sex.I would say that no one can strip way your purity (of your physical purity- yes, but there is a purity of self that is yours and doesn't leave because of sex or love)But if you believe that, then it must be true for you.
Then I would ask why not wait for marriage? Then there will be no fear (or at least less) of abandonment. If sex is so symbolic of exposing yourself and being so vulnerable, why would you not wait for marriage? You said you thought it is a lot to ask a man, to wait. It is only a lot to ask of a man if the attitude toward sex is casual. It is not a lot to ask of a man who loves you. Waiting for marriage is a good way to find out if he truly loves you.
When sex is so important to you, you can't just give in because there is a line of willing women just outside the door.

You said you are not sure he would be understanding, being a man. But if he is not, then he is not the man for you. If you have such deep and strong ideas about love you need a person who is like minded or you will be disappointed.

posted January 21, 2009 06:15 PM         

But marriage hasn't anything to do with that... Sex outside of marriage is not a sin, sex outside of love is...

Waiting for marriage? Hmmm... That would be the safest option... but I think it's unfair to force someone into something with religious connotations that may be against his principles and beliefs just to proof his love. There should be many ways to prove love... It's my fault if I'm irrationally scared... It's too much to ask... I need to trust the one I love... my only concern is that the price I will pay if I fail is too high... but it's my price to pay...

In fact I don't believe in marriage myself, it feels too much as a contract, as a warning, as jail... You should remain with someone because you love each other, because you wouldn't want to be with any other... not because you got married... I suppose it gives you only a false sense of security... I know that if someones wants to marry you shows that he's not after a casual sex, of course but... Love and marriage is not the same thing, it's not fair to link them.

I don't think any man in general terms would wait to have sex after marriage unless he has his own (religious) beliefs, which I'm sure I would not share in all the rest of aspects. Not nowadays. Sex is natural for mostly everyone... Not even women understand the way I feel and why I remain a virgin. I tend to hide it, I'm as much secretly proud of it as I'm embarrassed.

Regarding my nice guy, he's quite open-minded and liberal, not the religious type... but he does appreciate a not-easy-to-get woman, a serious and faithful partner... I can give you his date of birth if you want to look at his Saturn position... 31st January 1974 in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria (Spain)... I don't know the time though... We have known each other for three years now but when flirting became real interest (at least on my side) was 2 years ago. I'm waiting for him. He wasn't ready for a relationship, he has traumatic stories to overcome... but asked me for same time... and I did, I still am, because I love him... We are not dating yet... It's weird because we behave as if we were a couple but hardly any physical contact... The time is coming, the time he needed is ticking away, it's getting closer and closer, I sense it... I suppose that if I waited for him I'm allowed for some patience on his side... I suppose that if I could do it without asking questions, he should give me some credit...

Do you really think guys like virgins? Because I imagine it's a big responsibility, that they don't enjoy sex as much... because you are tense, because they are tense not wanting to hurt you... because you are very inexperienced...

I'm not expecting perfection the first time... only not being hurt... only patience and understanding... only tenderness... only time... a lot of cuddling... and a next time... the certainty of a next time.

posted January 21, 2009 06:33 PM         

I don't remember much of the dream... There was a train, we were getting somewhere... Then there was a party with my workmates... There it was this man from work, an old boss I don't especially like... someone who in real life is stern and rigid, not only personally but also in the way he moves... Some people were giving him presents, as if trying to please him to get his approval or rewards, but he wasn't very impressed... Then he turned and faced me... he smiled (something quite unusual) and gave me a gift!!! "This is for you... You have deserved it" I was so surprised... It felt so good... it was completely unexpected... I felt so proud, a bit overwhelmed with pleasure... because I knew I did deserve it...

posted January 21, 2009 11:07 PM         

It's bed time for me now, but I will look at his chart and we'll see what we find.

posted January 23, 2009 12:48 AM         

I don't know anything about the astrology aspects to your situation, Steelrose, but you and good girl have a wonderful dialogue going on here, and I do agree with much of her take on the symbology aspects of the dreams. There is some wonderful healing happening, and it is heart warming to see it all unfolding.

I have the greatest hope and expectation that you are going to conquer this issue.

Thank you, Steelrose, for sharing these dreams, and these intimate parts of your life. You are healing yourself, and perhaps helping others who are curiously following this topic to do the same.

And thank you, good girl, for your invaluable insight and astrological assistance. You are making a difference.

posted January 23, 2009 01:45 AM         

Yes... This is healing... Talking about these things brings them to the open so you can think about them and analyse them... fear is less powerful when you expose it to the rational mind... knowing that you have a problem helps to solve it... I'm willing to work on it... I've been hiding for too long... and now life is saying that is time to change that... It has become a kind of nightmare to live with it so even if it hurts, I'd better try something...

Another dream tonight... This is actually shocking because I don't usually dream / remember dreams that often... specially during the week, that I'm so exhausted and sleep so few hours... and all these appear to follow a thread...

A group of friends in a foreign country. For some reason I wanted to go to the doctor. I think I wanted a vaccine for some kind of illness you could get in that place... or maybe it was cutting down on an illness that we already had which could ruin the trip... This old boss in my previous dream was there!!! He said that we would need a glass to take the vaccine and told us where the doctor's practice was... He gave us a paper cup, but he didn't have enough so two or three of my friends didn't get any... but they weren't concerned about the illness...

We went out and started walking on the street... got a bit lost trying to find the place... some were saying that it was far, that we would not get in time anyway, that we should forget about it and go somewhere else, something more fun to do... I kept pushing them to go...

I don't remember this part... I think we did get to the practice... There must have been that huge and absolutely empty house that we got in... A cold house... We all ended up entering a very small room, the only one that was warm in the house... and waited there... was that the practice waiting room?

And then this old boss received us outside...

The medicine was something liquid that we needed to drink... and he said that the ones that didn't have a paper cup should drink it in a plastic bag... but we all should drink it...
Then he collected back the paper cups... but I don't remember drinking anything... I'm not sure if he got the containers to provide us with the medicine...

posted January 25, 2009 03:55 PM         

I think the group of friends in a foreign country reflect your friends here at Lindaland and this forum. I think that you want to go to the doctor shows that in real life you want to be healed of this thing that holds you back.I'm unsure what to make out of the rest of it, but it seems positive and that your psyche is unfolding things for you.I think if you keep dreaming, they will eventually get clearer on the meaning and suggest a solution.

posted January 25, 2009 06:10 PM         

You are very right about my special one... Freedom is a must... It won't work if I don't give him plenty of space... And that is fine because I'm also very independant... I don't chase, I'd rather be cased... However, our "relationship" is so loose that we don't have a relationship!!! It's weird because we behave as if we were an item but we are not... No sex, no compromise,( not even kisses for God's shake)... He calls in when he misses me so I warm him up and off he goes, to fly out there in his cold free world... At the beginning it fit me perfectly... he was so detached needing so much freedom that sex was completely out of the picture in the short term so I never felt threatened... which is what ruins all my potential relationships... that men's urge scares me and puts me off so I run out of reach in seconds... This one was so gentle that my guard was down too long... so I ended up falling in love...

posted January 25, 2009 06:15 PM         

The thing is that my cool attitude regarding his freedom may disappear when sex is involved... My insecurity will turn me into a touchy, clingy and hipersensitive creature fearing to be abandoned... when he may only be going off in one of his freedom trips to get fresh air after a quite intense emotional experience... I may not be able to control it, especially (almost solely) the first time...

I'm also growing tired of so much detachment... because he expects me to behave as his girlfriend but I'm not!!! An unsaid promise is not a promise... He is not giving me any security... he may feel great, with all the space in the universe and having someone who is always there to receive him with a smile when he's tired...
Compromise makes him feel uncomfortable so he compromises without telling you... so you never know...

posted January 25, 2009 06:28 PM         

The foreign country may mean an unknown territory... Sex and intimacy...

posted January 26, 2009 08:52 PM         

I hadn't realized that the 3 in 1 dream was yours, but I went back to read it and it makes sense with what your going through with him.
It sounds nice that he's been able to get your guard down. It probably would be that you lose some of the cool attitude after sex, but that is to be expected. I would try to not be too clingy though because the thing with venus in capricorn is that they often want to have to work for love. They don't want it to just be given to them, they respond to a certain amount of holding back from the one their intrested in. Love means more when it is (I'm not sure how to put it but..) reluctantly given.(know what I mean?)

Yes, I can imagine that he would be concerned if you started to back off, because even though he wants so much freedom in a relationship he also has a moon in taurus and they NEED stability. So if you didn't seem so available then it shakes his comfort zone.

Have you considered asking him where the two of you stand? In a no pressure kind of way. Or have you ever hinted that your becoming sexually intrested?

I just don't know about those cups, or why your cousins/friends are always involved.
Does he know your family? Or do you know his?

posted January 26, 2009 09:40 PM         

He just finished a pluto opp. saturn transit, which probably manifested around Dec '07- Jan '08. This transit shakes up your security, it also triggers fears of loss. So he's just getting past this, it left in Oct 08. Did he lose his father, or job?
Because we don't have his birth time I don't know what house/area of life it falls in.

posted January 27, 2009 01:48 AM         

I know he likes the conquest... I exactly understand what you mean about reluctancy... It's exactly what happened... He sensed there was something that made me shy and reluctant... I have always been sweet and available... but if he pushed too much or was impulsive I trembled inside... so he had to be very careful... and be slow... I believe he liked me since he saw me but it was my attitude that really caught him...

I'm not clingy in a normal situation... but we are talking about my utmost fear... my irrational subconcious terror... It will require a lot of self control and I don't know if I will have it... When something is as painful as something like that, you termporarily go mad... I may cause the very effect that I have been fearing all my life only because I fear it so much...

I don't know how to ask where we stand without putting pressure on him... I tried 10 months ago and he panicked... I think he wasn't ready yet to even think of a relationship, he needed time, and I think he may be getting there now... No idea of what is a no pressure kind of way for someone reluctant to compromise... Yes, I did hint I was sexually interested just before Christmas but maybe it was too subtle... I do think he got it though...

He doesn't know my family and I don't know his...
The paper cups were the containers for the medicine... I couldn't have it without one... No idea of what it means...

posted January 27, 2009 03:16 PM         

He has been very insecure this year... He almost lost me in March 08, he though he had and was badly struck by it... What happened around that date, second half of March 08??

posted January 27, 2009 10:18 PM         

There isn't anything that I see in March 08, but there may have been aspects to the angles of his chart, which we wouldn't know without his birthtime.

Do your friends know this guy? You could have one of them ask him causually if you guys are a couple, then it doesn't seem like it's your idea.

Why do you think he didn't make a move if you gave him a hint? I would be going crazy by now if I was you!! But then I have never been known to have great patience!

Are you guys close as far as talking about things? What would he do if you told him you were a virgin? Are you afraid he would not want to be your friend any more?

Has your guy ever been married?

Sometimes the worst thing is having to wait while things play themselves out.

posted January 28, 2009 02:17 AM         

We are not a couple yet!!! We behave as we were... but we are not. Nothing said or declared, nothing in the open...

I would tell him about my virginity, but not now... When sex is part of the picture... We are not even kissing!!! He doesn't need to know until we are something more than friends. Nobody knows, not even the closest. That is my embarrasing secret.