posted December 03, 2002 07:54 PM              

why'd you have to get so defensive? I'm not sitting here telling others that what they think about the current administration is wrong, I'm just stating my beliefs, I'm not endorsing them as superior to others.

There are a lot of people who think that Bush is an awful presidnet, there are a lot of people who are just as scared as I am that he's in office..LIKEWISE, there are a lot of people who are quite happy with him.

I do not trust him, I do not like him, I don't care how high his IQ is, I just don't like him. It doesn't make me right or wrong nor are your beliefs right or wrong.

The reason why it is advised that people never talk politics is because people get VERY defensive.

I really shouldn't have responded to this thread in the first place becasue I K-NEW what I was in for...so this will be my last post to this thread.

posted December 03, 2002 08:44 PM              

financechick, I agree that Clinton was without morals but I think he was a good pres. I don't agree with the cheating, but hey, that's Hils problem and she don't seem to care all that much. Our economy was strong, we were without a national debt for the first time in years, he did wonders for reforming the welfare system. Now we have a debt again, the economy is in the dumps, which can only partially be blamed on 9/11. The rest is pure Bush. And we are gonna end up in a war, whether we like it our not. And while I don't like Bush in office, I have already said that he did a good job in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. And I happen to be a quarter Cherokee, too.

rotflmao Carlo, yeah he sure came in the office didn't he, wink wink.

posted December 03, 2002 09:57 PM              

Sheesh. You folks keep it friendly, and although that's refreshing, I really didn't expect any less. I DID hope that it would be less of a who did you did lovya Dubya Diggin Clinton yak yak blah blah.

posted December 04, 2002 02:47 PM            

I wasn't getting defensive, I was just expressing my opinion. What I wanted to get across is that there are republicans out there, like me, who don't fit the mold. I think that is has become almost chic for certain crowds to bash on conservatives without even realizing what the party stands for, but is has become so popular.

My point is that I think we need to really look at what is going on and make a difference where we can, regardless of who is dem or rep or green. I have gotten so much crap out here and with certain groups of people because it is perceived that if one is artistic, mystic or educated in the least, then they cannot possibly be a Republican because it is assumed that we are all fat, old, ugly, rich men.

Really, I am not attacking anyone at all. I think that there are good and bad people in all occupations, but I see more attacks on the conservatives and not on others. I really do enjoy hearing other peoples views and expressing my own.

------------------
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will."

posted December 04, 2002 04:11 PM              

So this is just liberal insanity, I know, but all this the economy! save the economy! stuff gets old. We're not going to end up like some backwards third World country anytime soon.

posted December 09, 2002 10:31 AM              

(re: North Korea): But its admission last month, faced with damning American evidence that it had been enriching uranium for a second illicit bomb-making programme (it first tried secretly extracting plutonium from reactor fuel) has given offence all around.

I mean, I had known this b/f, but seeing it in print again got me thinking: the US is most likely letting Iraq make a spectacle of itself on the world stage by claiming "no weapons of mass destruction" b/c US intel has solid evidence that it does; Am can then claim material breach of the newest UN Resolution &, well...hell, we already have 10.000 troops in Kuwait, & Turkey said that Am can use its southern bases.

posted December 09, 2002 07:51 PM              

Yeah Boondocks.

And for the Reps/Libertarians among us:

posted December 10, 2002 01:17 AM              

From a humble Aussie's point of view...

Fundamentalism in any form is dangerous, the basis IMHO of this whole damn mess is a shocking mix of religious zealots with too much power and the JOKE that government is actually the voice of the people. Most of the population here does not want a war but our illustrious prime minister (hack, cough, barf) is following bush like a pathetic lapdog as we are such a pissant country we wouldn't be able to stand on our own if an attack were launched against us.

Sorry to any sensitive Americans out there but it seems that there is a massively inflated sense of `we lead the free world and will do as we damn-well please - UN and the rest can go jump...you are either with us or against us'. As I said though...this is not necessarily the voice of the people.

The whole thing stinks of propaganda and power struggles and hippocracy. I also get the feeling that Bush is not only a puppet with several hands (much smarter than his) up his clacker making him hop and jump to the tunes they compose, but is looking all-too-keenly at making a big mark for himself in the history books. it also seems that the US has been very selective in where it steps in in the name of human rights and justice - ie...where the US has something to lose in material terms...and Australia follows right along with it!

The kneejerk response to 9/11 was mostly revenge/politically motivated, and I fully understand the outrage that ensued from this horrific act. But as a previous post so validly mentioned...more weeds will spring up to replace the uprooted ones. How many innocents did the US knock of in poorly aimed missiles? And not just in THIS conflict either!

By the same token, something MUST be done about weapons of mass destruction...but GLOBALLY. It is not `defending' if you send a nuke over to retaliate against one sent to you. An eye for an eye makes for two blind people....and alot of dead ones. If we all put the money spent on offensive weapons into DEFENSIVE ones (what was wrong with the star wars' program?) then it would go further towards saving lives, which should be the aim of the game.

War on terror, war on drugs, war on whatever. Wake up world! Zero tolerance = fundamentalism and gets folk killed. But it well and truly out of the hands of the people...all we can do is sit back, watch and occassionaly ***** about it (as I am now ).

I `spose I haven't said anything that hasn't already been said by someone, somewhere before.

I hope to God (if he or she is listening) that a global collective consiousness suddenly emerges and we have no more secrets. People are so scared by what the don't know it drives them to do stupid things as there is a lack of trust all-round.

Fingers-crossed for the future,

posted December 10, 2002 01:54 PM            

If Jimmy Carter lived to be 1000 years old, he could never atone for all the misery he's caused in the world.

He sold out the Shaw of Iran and ushered in the radical Islamic terrorist Ayatollah Khomeini who along with the other radicals the Shaw had kept in check, instituted a regime of murder and human rights abuses rivaling those of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. The start of radical Islam started there and spread throughout the Middle East. Eventually, the radical Islamics stormed the American embassy and held 54 American Embassy staffers for more than 400 days.

He is also directly responsible for the overthrow of the Somosa government in Nicaragua leading to the Communist government installed by that little ******* Daniel Ortega, who totally destroyed the Nicaraguan economy. By the way, Ortega tried to export Communism to other Central American states which led to President Reagan funding the Contras, the Boland Amendment, Oliver North and John Poindexter.
Thank God President Reagan had the balls to chase that little ******* Ortega back inside the borders of Nicaragua.

Jimmy Carter is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people around the globe and repression of citizens by their governments to a degree that never existed before Carter intervened in their internal affairs.

Jimmy Carter damn near destroyed our economy during his 4 years in office. Interest rates were over 20% and every aspect of our economy was in the toilet.

Oh, but what a nice man. You might want to take a look beyond that toothy smile and see the reality of Jimmy Carter. Yeah, Jimmy Carter is quite a guy. http://www.chuckmorse.com/jimmy_carter.html

posted December 10, 2002 02:17 PM              

Peace, jwhop

posted December 10, 2002 02:59 PM              

Jakie

"Your children are not yours. They are the children and daughters of the desire of Life for herself.
They come through you but not for you ,and, although they can have been given, they don't belong to you.
You can give them your love, but no your thoughts. Because they have their own ones.
You can shelter their bodies, but not their souls. Because these, lives in the home of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, nor in dreams.
You can struggle to became like them, but don't try to transform them in what you are.
Because life doesn't walk back nor it is arrested in the past."
Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet

posted December 10, 2002 11:38 PM              

But it looks like you FULLY agree with me , as I said that `Do as I say, not as I do' was NOT the voice of the people...

and you're totally on track in saying that it is almost irrelevant who is in power...the puppeteers always seem to get the strings attached nice and quick. A lose-lose situation for the pacifist majority I'm afraid...

Yours in hope,

posted December 11, 2002 12:11 AM            

OK, peace

Seems Jimmy Carter never misses an opportunity to give advice on International affairs. Which is comical considering his failure to get anything right during his Presidency.

There haven't been any preemptive strikes by President Bush. So far, he's laid out exactly what would happen and then followed through. However, if there were proof that Iraq was about to sell or give chemical, biological or nuclear weapons to terrorist groups, I expect there would be. Some people seem to not understand that the President's primary duty is to protect the citizens of the US.

I too found it funny, weird, disingenuous and fraudulent when Bill Clinton claimed the economy under President George H.W. Bush was the worst economy in the last 50 years, i.e., a bald faced lie.

It is true the US economy started to unravel in 2000 during the Clinton Administration and by Feb 2001 the economic indicators were down and the stock market headed south---big time. The 90's are often referred to as the decade of greed---again on the Clinton watch and it should be noted that Robert Rubin, Clinton's Treasury Secretary was and is a Wall Street guy.

It should be further noted that it was Robert Rubin who approached the Bush Administration about bailing out Enron. The President stiffed them. So much for the liberals attempt to tie the Enron, Global Crossing scandals, et al to the Bush Administration.

Yeah, Nicole is a real cutie