posted December 23, 2002 06:09 PM            

Sure am glad we sold that rope to the Soviet Union that Nikita Khrushchev said they would use to hang us----helped our economy

Frist a racist?? Hey isn't Frist the physician who makes trips to Africa and volunteers his surgical services to their sick citizens? As usual, Hillary has her foot in her mouth. Better she should question the Revvvvvvrend Jessie Jackson about his Hymietown remark.
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/12/22/224714
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/12/22/222850
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/12/20/215339
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/12/20/214002
http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/12/18/221738

jwhop

posted January 15, 2003 05:41 PM            

You are free to express yourself (although insults do suck). I understand where you are coming from in your views and I, of course, have my own.

My views / beliefs / opinions would not keep me from hearing you out or getting into a spirited debate with you. I would also not discount you as a person even if I didn't subscribe to your belief system.

I hope your holidays went well.

Take Care,

Shawnee

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"Lahn dádzaayú nahikai leh ni' nyelíí k'ehge," Goyathlay (Geronimo)

posted January 25, 2003 09:16 PM            

I think about the women that have to hide their faces for fear they will either be beaten or stoned to death for merely making eye contact.

I think about the young girls that grow up knowing they live in a country where they are worth less than the grains of sand that make up their desert country.

It has to be more than about oil.

How is it this country can fight for the right of the spotted owl in Oregon, but we no longer care about the human being in Iraq?

We spend so much time and money arguing over how detrimental God is to this country, so we have to take Christian references out of the public, but we won't think twice about letting children grow up knowing they can die if they voice their opinion at all?

When is it right to fight? When it only concerns us, here, right now? When is it right to get involved? Should we topple Saddam, do you really think we will get so much in oil did we set up lucrative oil fields the last go around or did our best and brightest put out the oil fires and save the Kuwaiti economy?

Big oil gets only a fraction of their money from the US. Most of their money is made overseas in countries that have nothing to do with us.

It is just too easy to point a finger at oil and say that is why we are fighting.

I am more concerned, right now, with the people that are trying to throw away their lives to become a human shield. They do not understand the brutality of the people that they are up against. It will not be big oil or the US government that causes them harm, but it will be the people that they are trying to protect.

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"Lahn dádzaayú nahikai leh ni' nyelíí k'ehge," Goyathlay (Geronimo)

posted January 26, 2003 04:32 PM              

Donald Rumsfeld, that today defends an attack to Iraq, it is the same Donald Rumsfeld that in 1983, traveled to Iraq to support Saddam Hussein in the war against Iran, that gave weapons to him, like this he could kill his own people...
Who armed Saddam was the United States of America ...I'm sorry to say that, but i'ts the truth !

Now I ask: Who are the American allies in this senseless war ? Nobody... only Tony Blair, and I don't speak about the English people, but the English Minister...

Iraq is not the only dictatorship in this world, we have China, Iran, Korea, Saudi Arabia ,etc, etc, etc... why this concern just with Iraq ?
In what moment Saddam threatened the United States ?...I really don't remember...

Governments don't defend populations of other countries, governments defend their own interests in other countries.
This is a fact and against facts there are no arguments...

posted January 26, 2003 04:37 PM              

Sing to the tune of "If you're happy & you know it clap yer hands..."
If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq.
Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's good enough for me
'Cos it's all the proof I need
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
(And he tried to kill your dad),
Bomb Iraq.

If your corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.

~~~And here's my contribution~~~
If there are protestors in the streets, bomb Iraq.
If Fox News calls 'em stupid (bleep)s, bomb Iraq.
If your people are a' doubtin'
And Europe is a' shoutin',
But you don't want to be a' poutin',
Bomb Iraq.

posted January 26, 2003 06:47 PM            

Yes, we gave the lessor of two evils the weapons. Did we think he would use them on his own people? Did we think that the microbial and viral sample we gave to his scientists to develop vaccines would in turn be used to develop weapons of mass destruction?

There are other dictatorships, that is true, but how many of them are run by people so insane that they would actually launch nukes "just because" they have them? North Korea, China and others are not so stupid to think that they could take over the world by first annihilating it. Saddamn and Bin Laden are totally different characters.

Let me as this. What would have been the outcome had we not stopped Hitler? If we had not attacked Japan after Pearl Harbor, where would we be? I am not talking just about the US, I am speaking of the world as a whole. What would have happened if no one stepped in to defend the countries and those persecuted under the Nazi and Japanese Regime?

I believe that people like Susan S. and others would be carrying placards against the US and Allies inability to stop the genocide instead of carrying placards of peace.

How does one reason with a person that is insane and bent on destroying not only his own people but everyone around his country?

The children that died, are they because of America and the Allies? What about those killed when the Iraqi gov decided to test out the weapons.

Let's look at this another way. Say Saddam stays in power and his control grows. Say he decides to use England or Brazil as his testing grounds for his new small pox weapon. Would you fight then? Is it justified when it is on your turf? Would you want the Allies to them come to your defense or would it still be "peace" is the answer?

I am only asking because of what this man will do if he is not stopped. I don't want to see innocent people die either. No body wants that, except Saddam and his type.

We have already seen what can happen to a race of people when it's government or the powers that be decide to declare war on them for no reason. It happened here, I will bet my ancestors would have wanted someone to help in the fight and wage war on their behalf instead of watching them die and putting them on reservations.

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"Lahn dádzaayú nahikai leh ni' nyelíí k'ehge," Goyathlay (Geronimo)

posted January 31, 2003 11:38 AM              

Wow, I didn't know that - good point.
Question, though: does he mean that they actually produce 64% of ww oil, or that they have the capacity to produce 64% of ww oil in relation to what is currently being produced?

As for this:
"Because they (America) are so arrogant, they killed innocent people in Japan during Hiroshima and Nagasaki," he said referring to the two atom bombs the US dropped on Japanese cities to end the Second World War.

Well, hell - we didn't start it, and that's the only way that they saw to prevent an invansion of Japan that would've resulted in massive Japanese civilian and military casualties on top of staggering US casualties. Atomic warfare is a horrible thing - but so's all warfare...look at the firebombing of Dresden, just as many civilian casualties there.
Aaaaaaaaaand, before someone says, "The US atom bombed the Japanese but not the Germans b/c they saw Asians as 'less human' than Europeans..." or something along those lines - there were plans to drop 'em on German cities, but they surrendered.
Sorry. That's a pet peeve of mine.

posted January 31, 2003 04:52 PM              

No US didn't believe that he would use the chemical weapons against his own people, but against the Iran of the Ayatollahs... that was the deal...and if you make a deal with the devil, he will charge you later...

To compare Saddam to Hitler is an absurdity...Hitler was a crazy megalomaniac that wanted to dominate the world, Saddam is a crazy dictator that wants to stay in the power of his failed and unfortunate country...

For more than twenty years, I study the history of Second World War and its consequences, Hitler's life, his childhood, adolescence, his adult life and finally his road to the power, and believe me, this comparison with Hitler/Saddam and Iraq/Second World War doesn't make any sense...

The problem with this attack is that when the public opinion is confronted with the possible justification of a war, it waits for reasons that at least one of the parts in the conflict can claim real reasons as being of national interest and as being sufficiently strong for us to overcome the costs in human and material destruction that the war implicates.

I won't accept as reasons the purposes of small groups that, having acquired enough power to proclaim the war, they make it to continue their private interests.
The discomfort, perplexity or the riots of the world public opinion in the face of the next war against Iraq, elapses that up to now, have not been presented convincing reasons for an attack.

Let's see the possible reasons for an attack :
*First: Iraq was partly responsible for the September 11 and it deserves to be punished.
Along the last year, were made several attempts in the sense of tying Sadam Hussein to Bin Laden. For instance, one of the suicides of the attack to the WTC would have had encounters with the Iraquian secret services, but, what we know is that Bin Laden hates Saddam as much as he hates the USA.

*Second possible reason: Iraq is a threat to the USA.
Also in this case several attempts have being made and all have been failing. First, it was the anthrax that could have come from an Iraquian laboratory , yet, it was verified that it had been produced in the USA...

Now it is the possibility that Iraq it's producing weapons of mass destruction and could use against USA.
Also in this case the argument is not convincing.
In the eighties – when Hussein was a friend of the USA , and, with that support , he used chemical weapons against the Kurd ( his own people ) and Iran – Iraq was in fact developing nuclear capacity, a project that would have the support of Saudi Arabia, with the objective of neutralizing the 200 nuclear ogives of Israel.
Surprisingly, Iraq bought the technology of enrichment of uranium, in exchange for petroleum, from South Africa, that, for her time, had obtained it from Israel. But, everybody knows that The war of the Golf and the sanctions destroyed that project...

Indeed, Iraq was ignoring the resolutions of UN, just as Israel ( that refuses to accept inspection of their nuclear weapons ), India ( in relation to Kashmir ), Pakistan, and North Korea.
So, why this war is just against one dictator with a nuclear weapon ? Let's kill them all and clean the world !!!!!!

Before the inexistence of “reasonable” reasons, it only remain the reasons of the group that today dominates the government of USA. The oil reserves of Iraq are the second largest of the world and it is crucial that those reservations are in a friend's hands of USA , preferably under military occupation...

Since the middle of the 90s, Iraq, it's signing agreements with oil companies from German, French, Russian, Chinese and Japanese.
These agreements are for the exploration of petroleum, immediately after the end of the seizure of UN. But, American and English companies were left out...

Also, it doesn't interest to maintain as the enemy nº 1 an difficult target to abate. Unlike Bin Laden, Hussein has an address and the success of the war against Iraq can have the power to forget the failure of the war against the terrorism.

The Iraquian army is the only one that can threaten Israel.
The conservative right that dominates the White House – we remember that Dick Cheney was one of the few members of the Congress that was against Nelson Mandela liberation– intends to show unequivocally that they are on the side of Israel, like this, the powerful Jewish lobby, stop supporting the Democratic Party.

This same right intends to reduce the power of the moderate line of the republican party, humiliating his more outstanding representative, Collin Powell... and we know that his appeals has failed.

These are the reasons that the world public opinion refuses to accept…

Scott Ritter, former-inspector of weapons of UN, rejected the accusations that Iraq would be developing destruction weapons in mass: “The attack would be a historical mistake ”. But the “historical mistake” continues deceiving...

Saddam is in the power for more than twenty years and his power, up to now, arrived just at the neighbor's house Kwait... and if hypothetical speaking, his power grew until the possibility that he could or want to attack any other country, including mine, I would say PEACE !

Pidaua, at that time of the cold war, the largest fear of US was that the countries of Latin America followed the example of Cuba and put a second Castro in the power, for this reason my country suffered in the hands of a dictator's government for more than twenty years.
Brazil, Argentina, Chile... all these countries had during decades military governments and dictators supported by the American government and you have no idea of what is to live like this...
I was born in a dictatorship where young people died because they were against the military government that didn't allow any type of opposition ...
That's why I know that the poison and the antidote comes from the same snake....

Believe me, I love your country from the bottom of my heart, as I love the American people also...but this war is a huge mistake with consequences that neither you nor I can even imagine...

“The military confrontation will open the gates of the hell in Middle East”, said Amir Moussa, general secretary of the Arab League .

Love
Jakie

posted February 01, 2003 01:43 AM              

Yep, couldn't agree w/ you more. I mean, after all - Saddam's a secular leader in the Middle East, an anathema to all that Bin Laden and other Wahhabis/extremists stand for.
But, still, I wonder how much the phenomenon of conflict breeding strange bedfellows could possibly come into play...
after all, Bin Laden did accept aid from the US when the Afghans were fighting the Soviets. In his mind, it may be that God will deal with infidels in His own time (that is, after their aid is superfluous to the efforts of his True Believers).

posted February 01, 2003 05:21 PM              

War IS hell, it will always be hell; back in the days of the World Wars, people had seen so much bloodshed that they decide that they weren't going to have wars anymore. Since, we've forgotten how gruesome war can be. War is disgusting, brutal, gross, base; it causes a tremendous amount of pain and suffering and accomplishes so little.

War is not worth the cost.

posted February 03, 2003 02:19 PM            

My taxi driver was a nice man from Baghdad, Iraq. I had just arrived on the tail end of the State of the Union speech delivered by our President. The cab driver was so intent on listening to the speech that he accidently drove me to the wrong hotel. We laughed and started on our way towards Opryland.

He started to tell me how important the speech was to him. I asked him what he thought about everything. He said that his people are living under an oppressive and evil man. He escaped Iraq in 1992 but his family had been broken up and some were already executed.

I never told him my stance on any action towards Iraq, I wanted to hear from an Iraqi what it was like to live here and deal with what was happening in his home country.

He stated "Bush needs to get Saddam out. He is a horrible man and kills children. People here do not get it. So maybe 1 Million people die, then 21 Million people are free. Right now all 22 Million people are hostage under that man and he doesn't care about us. What you see on TV is not the Iraqi people, if we do not do what Saddam says, then we will kill our families. We need to kill him so that Iraq can be what is once was".

Then we talked about how great Iraq used to be as it was one of the major meccas for philosophers, artists and great minds.

Many times we fail to see their side. They are living life as prisoners under a brutal man. It is too easy to say it is about oil. What about Bosnia? What about our part in Somalia to free people at the hands of warlords.

Nelson Mandela was wrong about what we did with Japan. Anyone with access to a history book would know that. Japan was prepared to lose 10 Million of their own people while trying to take down 2 Million of ours by fighting hand to hand if that is what it took. We didn't get involved in the war until 12 years after Japan had already started to take over China and Hitler had pushed into Europe. After 4 years of fighting we finally dropped the bombs.

The final toll was less that 200,000 people dead compared to the 12 Million that Japan was willing to sacrifice. Even Japanese school girls were willing to kill for their country and made bombs attached to balloons that flew overseas (Check the info out in the Oregon and Wash Archives. I have been to the old forts that defended the west).

Japan was bent on destroying the other Asian populations and routinely tortured the Koreans and Chinese. When they captured Americans they performed live dissections of the soldiers.

Once we convinced the allies to turn off the oil to Japan, they then bombed Pearl Harbor. We answered back.

In the early years we ignored Japan and Germany. We were called isolationists. We turned our backs on the murders, the invasions, in the name of peace. Too many had to die before we actually jumped in. Is that what we want to do again? Countries cried out to ask for our help.

The terrorists (linked to Saddam) planned to blow up the Eifel tower in France. They planned on releasing Ricin in England to take out a large portion of the military.

Now that I have heard from an Iraqi that lived through it and lost family because of Saddam, I tend to go with his words. He supports the war. We have no idea what it is like living under that regime.

I don't give much credit to Mandela, the ultra commie, who appointed his little commies buddies once he got back into the swing of things. He is killing his own country, and yet we should listen to him?

This has nothing to do with a conservative or democrat slant. It has to do with a Humanitarian slant. So many of these celebs are against the war because they had Bush and Rumsfield. Where were they when we went into Bosnia or when Clinton bombed Iraq?

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"Lahn dádzaayú nahikai leh ni' nyelíí k'ehge," Goyathlay (Geronimo)