posted March 29, 2005 01:46 PM            

quote:

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No matter what you think of Terry's decision through Michael, you have to admit that this is a personal decision, and that Michael is her legal gaurdian. It's not something that the entire country should be opining on.

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Facts established by hearsay testimony are not legally sufficient to be considered facts. Therefore, I do not have to admit this is Terri's decision. It's clearly Michael Schiavo's decision and he's been trying to kill his wife for years. Further, he received $700,000 for Terri's rehabilitation and spent NONE of it on rehabilitation. Instead he spent more than $500,000 on legal fees to kill her.

quote:

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This is the classic "Spy vs. Spy" strip and all the Demorcrats doing right now at this point is being entertained through pure observation!

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To all the democrats being entertained by the prospect of a totally innocent woman being dehydrated and starved to death...this must be your finest moment.

posted March 29, 2005 02:56 PM            

Given to the concideration, most people believe that defying Constitutional laws and/or changing them at a whim to suit our own personal beliefs is not something that I would concider to be an act of honor as an American citizen, whether or not your either a Scorpio Demorcrat or a Republican Leo! This is an act to observe what is actually there and what is actually there is a stature of government that is not was seperated by three branches i.e. legislative, executive and judical! Needless, most of the Republicans have been mistaken to believe the fact that just because they got the White House, Congress and Senate that they can either just change the laws to they're liking when ever they want and/or just veer around them if they don't get the majority of the vote in either the House or Senate. Even if they do change a law or make new ones, that still goes to that of being a "due process". A Demorcrat(s) is not going to change anything anymore faster and Congress has learned the hard way for voting in on any bill without taking a look at it first. All ready the Republicans screwed that up by not presenting the bill to most of the Demorcrats in the first place for them to even take a glimse at it and even without the Demorcrats, the bill was mostly denounce by members of the Republican party for the fact that the bill calls for a "de novo" review and that right there is the direct violation of the Bill of Rights against a Judge and his ruling to be denounce and/or disregarded by Congress without presenting that Judge Greer had a record of "bad behavior" pending on him or the Terri Schiavo case!

Plus it was Jeb Bush that wrote up and signed "Terri's Law" without a review from Congress which can also be issued a violation against Congress itself, a bill that was a phoney! For if it really was real, it never got the chance for not only a review, but no president would be able to veto it, just another lemon to sell to the Bush fan club, just because it was a Bush that said so!

Jeb finally realized his limits!

Now you want to talk to me about morality?!

Bring a halt to the due process of God's own will to bring Terri home was a bad case enough, but without realizing it, the medical profession thought that maybe they can see if they can save her, originally, but it didn't happen, for the fact that this is not a "brain damaged" woman, it's about most of her brain is gone and if the religious-right would stop trying to halt stem cell research and was to allow science(willingly) to "harvest" human cells into a mass that can duplicate any part of the body as desired(coming right out from our very own cell formulation)Terri's tube would have stayed inserted and she'd be up and about within a few years time(as what?), that is yet to be seen, but we know that it now can be done!

I think that some people of God are going to need to make a choice of what to do, but they can't have they're cake and eat it too!

Maybe one day if I loose an organ, I don't have to wait in line for someone elses, all I'll have to do is wait for it to be fully grown inside of an incubator that was from my own genetic makeup in the first place!

Mind you, that would also be my choice!

Now that's being independant!

posted March 29, 2005 03:37 PM            

quote:

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Given to the concideration, most people believe that defying Constitutional laws and/or changing them at a whim to suit our own personal beliefs is not something that I would concider to be an act of honor as an American citizen, whether or not your either a Scorpio Demorcrat or a Republican Leo!

---

What Constitutional principle, rule, law or code is violated by maintaining Terri Schiavo's life? What constitutional principle was violated by congress directing a De Novo review of the state court decision by a federal court?

quote:

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Plus it was Jeb Bush that wrote up and signed "Terri's Law" without a review from Congress which can also be issued a violation against Congress itself, a bill that was a phoney!

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posted March 29, 2005 05:33 PM            

quote:

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Congress doesn't review state laws. Federal courts "may" review state laws upon an appeal but the Congress does not have that power of review, though congress may pass legislation requiring a federal court to review a matter. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

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ABSOLUTLY! And that is pretty much the answer to your question:

quote:

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What Constitutional principle, rule, law or code is violated by maintaining Terri Schiavo's life? What constitutional principle was violated by congress directing a De Novo review of the state court decision by a federal court?

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Futhermore we go to the regards of...:

"There may be additional paths of judicial appeal in some cases, provided all appeal paths internal to the administrative group have been exhausted., In general, such appeals are usually not based on the determination of fact (unless relevant evidence was not allowed to be presented), but rather on some legal theory that the administrative body exceded its statutory authority, or that the administrative body did not follow its own established rules of procedure, or that the authorising statute itself or the subsequently derived rules are defective in some way, for example by being an unconstitutional infringment of some constitutional right. In these cases the case may be remanded to the authority for further examination and determination under the new rules established by the court or the administrative decision may be declared null and void with prejudice."

Congress' request for a de novo was assumed under the guise of "new evidence" in the case of Terri Schiavo, which turned out to be more of something that was already reviewed, give and take bring right into the "Palm Sunday Compromise" which is absolutely bogus and totally unfair to the Terri, her parents, her husband and the rest of Americans in this country and the direct violation to the U.S. Constitution!

NOBODY ELSE CAN EVER BE GIVEN THAT RIGHT TO THE "PALM SUNDAY COMPROMISE" LAW!

posted March 29, 2005 06:35 PM            

According to the definition of life support radical leftist democrats wish to use, Christopher Reeves should have had his plug pulled...since he couldn't take care of himself.

What you don't know about American government is shocking.

Careful Ozone, someone may declare you to be in a persistent state of something undesirable, something that falls below their standards of life quality and ship you off to the extinction center. If that happens Ozone, no moaning and groaning because you've already sanctioned it for someone else. I can see it now.....

QUALITY OF LIFE COMMITTEE

VS

OZONEFILLER

posted March 29, 2005 09:54 PM            

As for her wishes ... there is no record of what she wishes. What we do know is that she is a Roman Catholic. It doesn't matter how we feel about dying ... the Roman Catholic Church feels that assisted deaths, suicides, murders, etc. are sins ... ending your life is a mortal sin. So even by just considering her religious values we have a conflict with what Michael Schiavo says she wanted. Her parents also disagree with him. Why wouldn't her religious beliefs and her family's beliefs about her desires be enough to at least shed some seriously needed doubt on what Michael says Terri would have wanted?

From what I've gathered from a lot of different people that have spoken about this around me ... it seems that some people just feel sorry for a disabled woman like Terri and think she would be better off dead because they "know" that if they were in that situation they would rather be dead. Pity doesn't seem to me to be a good enough reason to kill someone and certainly not in a way that is considered to be a war crime. Well, then, I guess anorexia isn't so bad after all ... starvation makes you "beautiful" and it's completely painless, too.

posted March 30, 2005 09:59 AM            

Why don't you tell everyone in here that if you were in the same circumstance as Terri Schiavo, that you would choose your next 15 years living like her?! Yeah, that's right! It must be nice to look outside of her situation and to think to choose as much as it is best for her as I to think what is best for me!

I'll tell you what I think! If I was in either one of Reeves' or Schiavo's condition, I wouldn't want myself to live like that, no matter what! I don't think that living that way is any kind of life at all, just to sit there and not be able to do anything for yourself, not to be able to go outside, not to be able to scratch your nose where you might have to itch, not able to do anything that you can ever think of that we all can take for granted so easily, that we don't even realize it in our conscience states, not until you can not longer do it anymore, not to be able to have a normal relationship with anybody, not to able to even hug someone you love, I mean the list goes on!

Are you asking me what I like to do? Well to be like that of someone in that kind of condition, I feel strongly that it would be no life at all and want to shorten it ASAP, but like I've said before, it must be nice to look from the outside and concider it all "the quality of life"!

GOOD FOR YOU JW!

I wouldn't want to be in they're shoes for all the tea in China! But hey, that's me and most of the American people today!

Nobody knows what Terri is going through, nobody knows if she's in pain and I dont think that neither does she!

Nah! The conservatives just want to look good and that's about all they want. The Chistian-right want total control over the private matters of every living human being on this earth, just like the Muslims do! It's not a "Holy War" out there, all it is as it happens to be is a power fight for world dominance, regardless of anyone's indivisual freedoms, not to think for yourself, not to explore different possibilities, just to obey and do what they tell you through the word of what someone else has written with little regards of the changing conditions of the world at large!

Here's a question, why(if the Rich feel so strongly now-a-days about the word of God) why do they continue to not only hold they're money so tightly, but try to find ways to be even more wealthy, through tax break insentives, outsourcing jobs from this country, pushing to further the course of NAFTA, etc, etc ,etc. WHY? Why don't they give more of they're money to the needy if they believe in God and Jesus so, so much? I wish I had the answer to that question of course, but I'm not rich!

Why do we worship someone that would sit and eat with sinners, but all we want is to put them to death?

WHY?

Oh BTW!

quote:

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Of course, Terri is not and was not on life support at any time.

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posted March 30, 2005 11:02 AM            

Who the hell are you to decide what is best for someone else Ozone? I don't give a rat's @ss what you would decide for yourself but in the absence of a document...a signed, well drafted written instrument detailing Terri's wishes in dealing with issues of life and death in certain circumstances, then the presumption of the right to life must always prevail and is not subject to attack by hearsay testimony in a court of law.

The fact is, you don't know what Terri Schiavo's true condition is...because in all these years there has been no effort to rehabilitate her, no MRI scan, ( Magnetic Resonance Imaging and no PET scan, (Positron Emission Tomography).

What there has been is a 45 minute examination by a so called expert with a set of car keys which he dangled in front of her....whose findings are disputed by other so called experts and an active campaign by her so called husband to deny her any therapy whatsoever and attempts to put her to death. To date, her so called husband has spent about $565,000 of the $700,000 proceeds of a court award for her rehabilitation on legal fees to have her put to death.

There is also the issue of sworn affidavits by former nurses, nurses having no connection to Terri's parents, who swore, under penalty of perjury that Terri talks, interacted with them, felt pain and was otherwise aware. Those nurses marked Terri's chart with comments to that effect....which were erased by the nursing home administrators. One of those nurses went to the police when she found evidence of Terri being injected after her so called husband's visit and found a vial of insulin in the trash...insulin which would have the effect of putting Terri into shock and possibly killing her. That nurse was fired for attempting to protect her patient.

So Ozone, when the Quality of Life Committee makes a determination that you are in a persistent state of something they find disqualifies you from further life and orders you to an extinction center....smile because you and those who think like you...namely that others know what's best for you in life and death situations and possibly what's best for society in general....you and those others are laying the very ground work to make that possible.

PS: A feeding tube is not considered life support. Further, it was Terri's so called husband who fordade any attempts to feed her orally....some of the nurses fed her orally anyway and swore to that as fact.

posted March 30, 2005 12:36 PM            

To many, it still means the same thing they thought it meant when they took it.

I, Michael, take you, Terri,
to be my wedded wife,
to have and to hold from this day forward,
for better for worse,
for richer for poorer,
in sickness and in health,
to love and to cherish,
till death do us part.

posted March 30, 2005 01:49 PM            

I think that your just blowing this all way too much out of proportion, now your claiming that I would assign anybody a feeding tube the death sentence?! Do you realize how wierd your sounding?

First of all, I'm not the one to decide what is best for anybody, but the case that might be over the fact that Terri(just like the rest of us)never thought that she would ever had to write up a living will and probably thought to herself that just telling her husband would be sufficient and is only that I would suppose, but this thing about nurses giving Terri food orally shouldn't be put to death, but being terminated because of it is good enough, for it is against doctors orders! If I was in the hospital and the doctor made out a special order not to give me a certain type of food(for it could be fatal to me)and a nurse decides that it's wrong for the fact that she believes that the food is good for me and makes me eat it against my will(which in Terri's case, that's exactly what that is)that it could kill me! What that nurse did was take it upon herself to disobey an order from an MD and she's lucky that she wasn't sued for it! For that, I wouldn't trust her to follows mandatory proceedures as a nurse in the care of a patient, how am I suppose to believe her on whatever she says afterwards? How do I know that she's not making it up just to protect her @$$ from public dissapproval or to blackmail Michael Schiavo, the doctor, or the hospital itself?

I don't know, as much as the same that I don't know about Terri's condition and thus to go to the fact that I also don't know why this Michael Schiavo can have some sort of power over the hospital, the judical system, the government, the media.... I mean, who is this guy that he can have so many powerful people on his side that no celebrity, no governor, Congress, the crowds right outside the hospital that Terri's in and not even the president can circumvent this man's wishes? How can he be so impervious to either attack or any possible or political reciprocal that has been acted by almost all forms of the legal system? I have a hard time believing that any ordinary person can have that kind of influence, unless of course he took sips out of the same mysterious cup of water that George W. Bush drinks out of every morning.

I get a kick out of this:

quote:

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So Ozone, when the Quality of Life Committee makes a determination that you are in a persistent state of something they find disqualifies you from further life and orders you to an extinction center....smile because you and those who think like you...namely that others know what's best for you in life and death situations and possibly what's best for society in general....you and those others are laying the very ground work to make that possible.

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Yep, we're all working together to create the ultamate socialist system to make sure that all those that render useless after a certain number of years or to be found handicaped in anyway, should be put to death! But I like your idea better, we should make all those that incapable of of motivation to the utmost extreems be made to live forever with they're disabilities till the last stable human being can no longer provide care to them, hook them up to a fully functional machine(not to ever ultar they're disabilities for the better) until they get the reckon with the end of time! But I think that it's best that we continue to just do what we can to find a way to see if we can do what I've said before, do further research into harvesting human organs from the genetic makeup of people like Terri and forget the idea that it might be wrong morally! If God didn't want us to have it, he wouldn't have put it here in the first place! I don't see how it would be wrong to do something that was possibly meant to save lives in all it's forms!

posted March 30, 2005 02:46 PM            

I have submitted your name to the Quality of Life Committee. For cause, I allege you are in a state of persistent and permanent fog. When they question you, I advise you to stand on your 5th Amendment right to remain silent...so as to not prove the allegation.

posted March 30, 2005 03:23 PM            

quote:

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Ozone, if anything you say ever begins to make any sense to me, I'm going to check myself into a mental hospital.

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posted March 30, 2005 05:34 PM            

This revelation from Michael Schiavo came almost immediately after a court award of $700,000 for Terri's rehabilitation. Until that time, he didn't remember any such statement and in fact, the statement is self serving because if Michael Schiavo had come forward in the beginning with the statement, there would have been no $700,000 award for rehabilitation of Terri Schiavo. Why rehabilitate someone who is going to have their food and water shut off?

Judges, either state or federal are not Gods, they are not infallible and they are not the last word on the truth or the law. In almost all cases, they are attorneys, many of whom were corrupt and continue to be corrupt. They attempt to interject their personal feelings and beliefs into their decisions instead of following the clear rules of the law and the State and Federal Constitutions.

Certainly judge Greer is not infallible, he's barely out of a persistent vegetative state himself. This is the same idiot judge who denied a protective restraining order to a woman whose husband stabbed her to death about 2 weeks later. His excuse...well, how did he know the perpetrator and object of the restraining order had access to a weapon. Hello....who doesn't have access to a knife?

You win Ozone, you're far too clever for me to debate.

posted March 30, 2005 09:05 PM            

Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:37 p.m. EST
Schindlers: Impeach Fla. Judge

A spokesman for the family of Terri Schindler Schiavo said Wednesday the Florida judge presiding over her case "ignores the state’s laws and orders the premeditated killing of a disabled Florida woman by her husband."

Pamela Hennessy, media director for the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation, in a press release Wednesday called on disability and eldercare advocates to press for Circuit Judge George Greer’s "immediate impeachment."

"If there is a single person following this who doesn’t believe Judge Greer has legislated from the bench, trampled Florida’s laws and deprived Terri Schiavo of her retained rights, they are simply not paying attention," Hennessy said in a statement.

According to the foundation’s press release, on Tuesday and Wednesday Greer issued three orders that the foundation said all but assures Schiavo’s death. First, Greer ordered that the family may not introduce oral nutrition and hydration following the removal of Terri’s gastric feeding tube.

The foundation pointed out that Florida Statute 744.3215 (Rights of Persons Determined Incapacitated) requires that incapacitated people cannot be deprived of food and water.

"Ordering that Terri Schiavo may not receive nutrition or hydration naturally is against the law, in the opinion of the Foundation," it said in a statement.

Second, according to the foundation, Greer ruled that no further neurological tests may be conducted on Terri, using functional MRI to determine if she is in a "persistent vegetative state," as Greer found in 2002, or if Terri is "minimally conscious."

The foundation pointed out that Florida Statute 765.404, which defines persistent vegetative state, requires that the condition be determined and diagnosed as permanent prior to the withdrawal of life-prolonging means. Also, Florida Statute 765.309 prevents mercy killing and assisted suicide.

The foundation said that unless the "true neurological condition of Terri Schiavo" was determined prior to the removal of the feeding tube, Greer’s order amounts to "a directive for her guardian to commit either a mercy killing or assisted suicide."

And third, "Greer denied an order from a judgment based on his error in dismissing pertinent testimony in 2000 that would assist the court in determining Terri Schiavo’s true end of life wishes," the foundation added.

It pointed to Florida Statute 765.404, which says that clear and convincing evidence of the ward’s intent for medical treatment must be established.

"The only evidence in support of removing Terri’s feeding tube was the self-serving hearsay testimony of her guardian (which is not admissible under FS 90.602) and hearsay from two members of his immediate family," the foundation said.

"Greer systematically ruled that testimony from Terri’s friends and family was unreliable or not credible. His failure to consider all evidence of Terri Schiavo’s attitude towards life-prolonging measures, in the Foundation’s opinion, is a clear violation of Florida Statutes," it concluded.

CNSNews.com
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/30/183942.shtml

posted March 30, 2005 10:59 PM              

Condemned to die
....Oh tell me why
........she has to go this way

What has she done?
...has cruelty won?
.....does mercy have no say?

Her mom and dad,
...with hearts so sad
.....ask, on this the thirteenth day

Save Terri's life,
....relieve this strife,
......we beg, we plead, we pray

Falls on deaf ears,
...as death draws near,
......where helpless Terri lay,

And so she dies
.....midst futile cries
........the "judge" has final say!

She fought the fight
.....against the might
.........but karma says "they pay!"

Good-bye Terri....You didn't deserve this...

posted March 30, 2005 11:23 PM            

Either the Florida House is going to start impeachment proceedings against this moron judge or we will elect a clean slate of house and Senate members who will in the next election.

They may think that when Terri Schiavo dies it's going to be over and all the dust will settle. Business as usual...I don't think so. There is more outrage over this than I can remember about any internal state issue I've seen since I've been in this state.

posted March 31, 2005 12:27 AM              

Judge Greer is certainly not a very popular man, is he?

I wonder if he is having second thoughts?

My little verses for Terri might have been premature...but it really looks like there is no hope now....

Her parents are turned away again and again, whichever way they turn!

I CANNOT BELIEVE THERE IS NO ONE WHO COULD HAVE HELPED TERRI!

For this to be happening is unreal....I don't know how her parents can stand it...to be denied the right to feed their daughter and keep her alive....It's the most cruel and inhuman thing to put anyone through...*sigh*

It's still hard to believe that this is actually happening.....here in America!

This girl lies there...dying a slow death...because nobody will feed her...*sigh*

posted March 31, 2005 12:37 AM            

quote:

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they have accepted Michael Schiavo's assertion that his wife would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially.

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She wasn't being kept alive artificially ... she wasn't on any form of life support. All she needed was food and water. She had a feeding tube inserted. That's all. There are reports by the people who actually cared for her (who, it can be reasonably argued, probably know their medicine better than Michael Schiavo) that she could indeed eat a little on her own as long as someone fed her. That's not being kept alive artificially. There are many more things that keep people alive that are artificial, like pacemakers, than simply needing someone or something to help feed you.

posted March 31, 2005 10:08 AM            

quote:

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I don't know whether or not that Judge Greer would be impeached over this matter, but the fact remains that it would not have gone this route if it wasn't for Washington and Jeb Bush to get heavily involved with trying to redirect a court order, by changing the laws at whim once the Republicans didn't agree with the verdict under the court of law.

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That's sooooo deep I don't even understand what you're trying to say Ozone...or at least I don't understand how the words line up with reality.

You must be in possession of information I don't have. On the surface, it would appear a brain dead judge issued an order from the bench to starve and dehydrate Terri Schiavo to death. At that point Republicans AND Democrats got involved and attempted to stop it. The courts upheld the brain dead judges order.

Do you have secret information that IF the Florida State Legislature AND the US Congress AND the President AND the Governor had not gotten involved....then the execution of Terri Schiavo would not have gone forward....as it did go forward?

I have just heard on the news that Terri Schiavo HAS now been executed. That should cheer you and all who wished for her death up considerably.

posted March 31, 2005 10:58 AM            

quote:

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I hope the US Congress who really could have intervened and the State Legislature who really could have intervened and the President who really could have intervened and the Governor who really could have intervened....any and all could have intervened constitutionally to protect the life of a US citizen...so, I hope all those people are ready for the political firestorm that should erupt in the next election cycle.

---

Oh yeah, then why didn't they do anything? That's because they realized that they can't change a court order without an appeal!

quote:

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I have just heard on the news that Terri Schiavo HAS now been executed. That should cheer you and all who wished for her death up considerably.

---

I'm not happy about the fact that anybody ever gets executed by law when they are innocent, but I'm now happy for Terri that she is no longer a prisoner in her own body and that she was finally set free! I believe deeply into God too, just as much as those freaks that have been in the protests for Terri to even drag handicaped people in on this(like as if they thought that they were going to be next, whoever gave them that idea, I wonder), but I have a different opinion about the way that God works, so it's not all about them, not about you and not about me! God obviously wanted Terri home, that's the overall answer!

Thus, God is great! Greater then anybody here on this earth!

Amen

posted March 31, 2005 12:04 PM              

Judge Greer absolutely is not a Nazi. If you seriously make that comparison you're out of your mind.