posted March 12, 2005 12:17 PM            

Well, a Florida Court has ordered the execution of a woman totally innocent of any crime by starvation. So, the question is, where is your organization? Nowhere to be found on the issue. Of course, you would be protesting, beating your breasts in impotent rage if a court ordered the execution of a convicted serial murderer by starvation..now wouldn't you?

In fact, you were outraged when the US military kept some terrorists up past their bedtimes, gave them a timeout in the corner, failed to keep the temperature exactly right for them and embarrassed them...but when a totally innocent woman is scheduled for execution by starvation, you are silent.

This only proves what I've always thought about your organization. You are a group of politically motivated professional protester media hounds with no desire to protect human rights and therefore worthless.

posted March 12, 2005 04:21 PM            

Not that the method is the only issue. The other issue is executing the innocent which the courts are supposed to protect.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

posted March 12, 2005 06:30 PM              

quote:

---

Well, a Florida Court has ordered the execution of a woman totally innocent of any crime by starvation.

---

I am OUTRAGED by this!!!!

I pray she'll get a reprieve....

posted March 12, 2005 07:50 PM            

Bush also sent the Florida Department of Children & Families into the case to investigate but the judge basically ruled they were just trying to get around his ruling.

posted March 13, 2005 01:39 AM              

Circuit Judge George Greer http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/06/Tampabay/Quiet_judge_persists_.shtml

Judge W. Douglas Baird http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/03/Tampabay/Eyes_on_judge_in_Schi.shtml

and the Second District Court of Appeal...(mostly bush appointees)

and the entire florida supreme court(including 3 appointees of bush) who unanimously struck down terri's law........

there is more legislation being written now , i believe......perhaps it will be in time.....

posted March 13, 2005 05:29 PM            

I only love it when in this forum, we can talk about the injustices in the court system, but did anybody ever come to think about the main character that is involved:Terri Schiavo herself?!

This is starting to sound more and more like that of the Republican Political treatment rather that of any actual medical treatment that Terri can ever recieve!

At least for the fact that I haven't seen yet of anybody posting her current condition or her prognosis right now at this time, if we can even call it that much!

--------------------------------------------

Ultimately, Terri's case is understandable, though painfully so. If you take away the "evil" allegations that have been leveled against everyone, it's easy to see what you're left with.

You're left with a woman who suffered a heart attack 15 years ago, who essentially died but was resuscitated, though not entirely. Her brain had suffered enormous damage from the heart attack. As time passed, her brain further deteriorated -- to the point where much if not most of her cerebral cortex (the portion of the brain that controls conscious thought, among other things) was literally gone, replaced by spinal fluid. Doctors hired by Terri's husband say the deterioration of Terri's brain left her without thoughts or feelings, that the damage is irreversible, and that Terri's life-like appearance is merely the result of brain stem activity -- basically involuntary reflexes we all have. An independent doctor hired by the court reached the same conclusions. Doctors hired by Terri's parents did not dispute the physical damage done to Terri, but they claim there are new therapies that could improve her condition. In two separate trials, the trial court found such claims of potential improvement to be without merit. Terri's body continues to function without her cerebral cortex. She is sustained by a feeding tube surgically inserted into her stomach. She cannot eat through her mouth without a strong likelihood of choking to death.

You're left with a husband who lived with his in-laws following Terri's heart attack, who apparently provided care and therapy for years but who later came to believe Terri would never recover. He believes she would not have wanted to be kept alive in this brain-degenerated condition by a surgically implanted tube. He is apparently willing to continue his fight to achieve what he believes Terri would want despite ridicule, hatred, expense, and threats.

You're left with parents who were once allied with Terri's husband in an effort to care for Terri and restore her but, unlike Terri's husband, they never lost hope. They believe Terri reacts to them and has conscious thoughts. They believe Terri would not want, and does not want, her feeding tube removed, and that some cognitive function could be restored through new therapies. Terri's parents are willing to continue their fight to achieve what they believe Terri would want despite ridicule, hatred, expense, and threats.

You're left with judges who have been placed in the utterly thankless position of applying Florida law to this impassioned situation. Florida law calls for the trial court to determine what Terri would chose to do in this situation, and after a trial hard fought by Terri's husband and her family, where each side was given the opportunity to present its best case about what Terri would do, the court determined the evidence was clear and convincing that Terri would chose not to continue living by the affirmative intervention of modern medicine -- that she would chose to have her feeding tube disconnected. In a second trial, brought about by Terri's family's claims new therapies could restore her and that the existence of such a therapy would make her "change her mind," the trial court again heard evidence from all sides and determined that no new therapy presented any reasonable chance of restoring Terri's brain function. The propriety of these decisions -- from the sufficiency of the evidence to the appropriateness of the procedures used -- has been unanimously upheld on appeal each time.

You're left with a public that is much confused. Some see video clips of Terri moving, appearing to make eye contact, and making sounds, and they assume such are the product of conscious thought -- that Terri's "in there." Some believe Terri's husband has been motivated by money. Some believe that no heart attack occurred -- instead, Terri's husband beat her nearly to death and has been trying to end her life ever since. Some believe he is a bad person because he has taken up with another woman and has children with her. Some believe Florida's judiciary is corrupt or inept, to the point where death threats have been made against the trial judge. Some are sad that families would fight like this. Some believe that removing Terri's feeding tube would cause her pain and is inhumane (I'm no doctor, but the medical information I've seen on this subject uniformly says the opposite.) Some are disappointed that the law does not allow someone in Terri's condition to be kept alive perpetually if a family member is willing to care for him or her. Some believe no life should be permitted to reach an unnecessary end unless irrefutable proof, or at least written proof, shows the person wanted things that way.

All of these positions are understandable in some sense, though if you've read my posts over the years you know I am particularly sensitive to the judiciary's position of following the law correctly and yet being so horrifically misunderstood by many.

Is there hope? Well, if you mean hope to keep Terri alive any longer, there is some. Terri's family continues to launch new legal battles, and to appeal old ones, in hopes a court somewhere will give them another chance to prove Terri would not want to discontinue her feeding tube, or in hopes they can win the authority to care for Terri themselves. There is a new legislative measure under consideration that could prove to be a repeat of 2003's "Terri's Law." How long can these efforts forestall the tube's removal? Can they stop it altogether? I can't say. But I don't think anyone with knowledge of how the legal system works would have foreseen several years ago that Terri would be with us in 2005, yet here she is.

I continue to hope that when this saga ends it will be the ending that Terri would have wanted.
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#init

--------------------------------------------

I can't believe that I live in a country that justifies going into a country, just to kill innocent men, women and children just to get at a man that once worked for this country!

I can't believe that the same people that live in the same country then that as I do, find it OK to assume then snag Muslim men out of other countries, then put them into a different countries to be tortured and abused and being one step away from being like that of an Auschwitz for Muslims, then be released without even getting anykind of criminal record for it, for whatever reason of crime that they might have caused!

I can't believe that I'm listening to a bunch of people that think that they are so righteous enough to aggress to the suffering of those that are servents of the legal system of such to find the most merciful ways possible for a person that is nonetheless suffering so much and then some!

One final note, this is a recent letter from a celebrity that feels condolences for the Schindlers:

http://www.terrisfight.org/

Of course he feels mutual about this, he too is out of his mind as well!

posted March 13, 2005 06:57 PM              

but if jwhop wants to go after the judges too i thought he might want to know who they are....

maybe he should send a copy of his email to the U.N. and PETA as well....i dont know that amnesty international or human rights watch take any stance at all on right-to-die issues....maybe they would suggest some kind of painless injection......

posted March 13, 2005 09:35 PM            

The only things that is really keeping her alive at all is a feeding tube, the Bush family political agenda, gravity and God's will to take her home!

Why do we have to bound this poor woman with a body that is really not bringing her back and all she is at is tossed up lost between two worlds?!

Why can't we just let this poor woman finally rest in peace?!

Besides Petron, nothing for nothing, but what makes you think that if the husband gave legal access to the parents of have full guardianship over to them, that they wouldn't have the "plug" pull out on Terri instead, just to get all that money, in insurance policies?

posted March 14, 2005 07:25 PM              

but micheal has been with another woman for years now and they have two children together....despite that he is still married to terri.....

posted March 18, 2005 06:48 AM              

Members of Congress went to the U.S. Attorney in DC to ask for a temporary restraining order to be issued by a judge, which protects Terri Schiavo from having her life support, including her feeding and hydration tubes, removed... Developing...
http://www.drudgereport.com/

posted March 18, 2005 09:58 AM            

In order for her testify to any kind of count order(congressional committee, any higher court,etc...), she would have to be mentally and emotionally sane or sound, which we we all know that she is not and is totally illegal to force such a person under such circumstances to comply!

In fact, in order to have Terri Schiavo testify, she would have to be legally issued a subpena by the court that is handling her case, which of course at best, most definitely would be overturned by Judge George Greer, at worse, would just be simply denied and the Judge can follow up on retro-charges against whoever is so responsible in Washington of the "corruption of the legal system and/or courts of law"!

The only real power that Washington has(when it comes to court cases) is to issue a pardon from execution or release from prison(and that is only ordered by either the president and/or governor, etc...), the only problem is, Terri Schiavo didn't commit any crime and this is not a death sentence(even if it might seem that way), she's not convicted or incarcerated either.

This is all just a waste of time really!

posted March 18, 2005 01:36 PM              

By MITCH STACY

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) - A state judge on Friday temporarily blocked the removal of the feeding tube for severely brain-damaged Terri Schiavo as legal wrangling continued over efforts by congressional Republicans to keep her alive.
Pinellas Circuit Court Chief Judge David Demers ordered that the feeding tube remain in place past a 1 p.m. deadline while fellow Judge George Greer, who is presiding over the Schiavo case, deals with conflicting legal issues.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050318/D88THK4G1.html

posted March 18, 2005 02:16 PM            

The thing is the I really do feel sorry about Micheal Schiavo is the fact that he cannot divorce Terri, even to the parents request and none of these policians even care who's the one that has to pay for all the expences to keep her alive!

Terri's parents are not doing it, Congress hasn't even thought about discussing about it, I don't see anybody offering money to keep her alive for another 50 years in the state of Florida!

It's all on the husband and this will nonetheless be a three ring Republican political circus yet!

What do they want to know from Terri in the first place, a verbal request to die?!

posted March 18, 2005 03:04 PM              

i think the subpeona is simply a legal loophole to prevent micheal from removing her feeding tube again

posted March 18, 2005 03:22 PM              

JUDGE RULES TERRI'S FEEDING TUBE CAN BE REMOVED

Judge Orders Schiavo Feeding Tube Removed
Mar 18, 2:38 PM (ET)
By MITCH STACY

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) - The presiding judge in the case of Terri Schiavo ruled Friday that the feeding tube keeping the brain-damaged woman alive must be removed, despite efforts by congressional Republicans to block the move by seeking her appearance at hearings.

Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer refused a request from U.S. House attorneys to delay the removal, which he had previously ordered to take place at 1 p.m. EST. Greer determined that it should go forward about an hour after another judge issued a temporary delay blocking the tube's removal.

"I have had no cogent reason why the (congressional) committee should intervene," Greer told attorneys in a conference call, adding that last-minute action by Congress does not invalidate years of court rulings.

posted March 18, 2005 03:32 PM              

btw ozone.....have you seen the videos of terri at http://www.terrisfight.org/ ??
in particular...watch the one of terri watching as a balloon is moved over her....she is clearly tracking it with her eyes...

posted March 18, 2005 06:34 PM            

I heard about a woman named Kate Adamson on another board, and here's what I found concerning her experience:

http://www.katesjourney.com/

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031408.html
Recovered “Vegetative State” Patient Kate Adamson Speaks Before Schiavo Rally.
Withdrawal of food and water was “one of the most painful experiences you can imagine”

http://www.blogicus.com/archives/kate_adamson_fights_for_terri_schiavo.php
Kate Adamson Fights for Terri Schiavo

Kate Adamson is the mother of two who suffered a double brain stem stroke and was in a coma for 70 days. She was completely unresponsive to stimuli and was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state. Doctors finally pulled her feeding tube and, for eight days, she lay dying. Instead of being unconscious as the doctors believed she was aware of everything.

During an interview on the O'Reilly Factor in 2003 she recounted the dehydration experience:

O'REILLY: When they took the feeding tube out, what went through your mind?

ADAMSON: When the feeding tube was turned off for eight days, I thought I was going insane. I was screaming out in my mind, "Don't you know I need to eat?" And even up until that point, I had been having a bagful of Ensure as my nourishment that was going through the feeding tube. At that point, it sounded pretty good. I just wanted something. The fact that I had nothing, the hunger pains overrode every thought I had.

Bob & Mary Schindler have invited Kate Adamson to address the Florida State House Committee on the Judiciary and share her remarkable story. Adamson, author of "Kate's Journey" and a renowned disability rights activist, hopes her story will change the way Terri is being perceived by those who hold her life in their hands.

Due to a catastrophic brain stem stroke, Kate was dependent on a feeding tube for all her nourishment and had the tube turned off for over a week. She, unlike most others, can understand what Terri is going through. Doctors had given up hope that Kate would ever recover, but she is now fully functional except for some paralysis on the left side of her body.

"I have a unique understanding of what Terri is feeling. I could feel everything that the doctors did to me, and I could do nothing. I was at the complete mercy of others, and they couldn't hear me. I have been given the opportunity to speak on behalf of one that has been robbed of her voice. We are praying that God will move on the hearts of Governor Bush and the Florida Legislature to stand up and protect the right of Terri not to be starved to death."

http://www.discardedlies.com/entries/2005/03/kate_adamson_speaks_out_on_terri.php

By the next evening, however, Kate was in an intensive care unit, totally aware of her surroundings, but unable to respond. As she laid there, she listened as doctors, who assumed she could not hear them, were discussing whether or not to treat her. Kate had suffered a double brain stem stroke and her life hung by a thread. "If she lives," her husband was told, "she will be a vegetable."

Kate's husband, Steven Klugman, was key to her recovery. Kate says, "My husband chose to weigh in on the side of the sacredness of life and the law. He was the best advocate one could have." Steven clung as tenaciously to Kate's life as she did herself. He spoke to her expecting that she could hear him. He left praise music playing for her continuously. He fought the insurance companies who wanted to give up on her. He refused to have her transferred to a skilled nursing facility (nursing home) and instead got her transferred to a hospital with rehabilitation facilities. He even shut down his law practice so he could be by his wife's side as she recovered. "They said he was doing this for his own reasons," Kate said. "They thought he was insane."

When asked about Terri Schiavo, Kate answered, "I believe because of my chance for recovery, the right environment and love, I was able to thrive. Terri deserves that opportunity. This is a woman who has had no opportunity at rehab. Who knows what she can do?"

posted March 18, 2005 06:38 PM            

He should give guardianship to her folks and move on with his new wife.

I don't believe it, that you can kill someone on the word of their spouse, without an advanced directive or living will in place...she's not even on life support, she just can't eat on her own. I believe in Euthanasia, but not under these circumstances.

The same people who believe in Micheal's right to starve her to death don't believe in capital punishment (democrats/liberals in the FL gov't and courts).

OZ - The words I have for your typical level of complete and utter ignorance would get me banned from LL.

posted March 18, 2005 09:59 PM            

What that of the classic case of Karen Ann Quinlan? What about the fact that she breathed without the help of a respirator and thus lived for another ten years? Needless and par to the course, I know that Terri doesn't have a chance that she would ever live any kind of life in spite of her ever really living at all!

It's just like of what Adamson said, that she was at least able to blink and think, but this totally different I'm sure!

OK, say that this Michael Schiavo is a total dirt bag and all that he's looking out for is to get the money, I think that it would be only fare to grant an award to him(by the courts), for his loss and let the parents remain as the legal guardians to Terri and then everybody will be happy and go they're own merry way! If this is what he wants, so be it! If this is what they want, ditto! If anything comes out of this congressional hearing dated on the 25th and 28th of this month, I hope that this would be the case scenario, I mean "why not?", no matter how much you look at it, it's going to cost money either way, hopely this way it can be towards all's happiness, but minus "one's" life part!

But you said that her feeding tube was removed again Petron, when did this happen? I like to know, I was hoping that maybe this idea would work out better, but if this was what I thought that it would be with what I've said before with trying to defy the court system by the government, then I guess that I was right about that part of it and Washington overstepped it's bounds!

I know that court orders cannot be legally overstepped without an an appropriate appeal by a lawyer that represents the one that protests the order, in this case, the Schindlers and that can still be overturned.

Washington doesn't have the kind of power that we all like to precieve, no representative of the government can overrule a court order of a judge without probable cause, the judge would have to do something illegal within the legal system and be disbanded by a higher court, at least that is how I've remembered it to be and that hasn't been the case either.

So what can we do? That's America!

Hey Isis, I haven't said this to you in a while: "Whatever!"

posted March 18, 2005 10:29 PM            

We do treat animals better than this and would never let a dog / cat starve to death as a human way to die. Mr Shaivo is a horrible wretch that should be sentanced to the same, as jwhop suggested. The fact that he won't even allow the parents to take over guardianship - not even for money- is even worse.