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Author Topic:   Mom 'Cooks me in Oven'
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 08, 2009 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear God, the world has gone insane.

"Mom cooks me like a turkey in the oven," she told police.

Hamtramck woman calls police herself, is charged with torturing kids, 4 and 5 years old.
Christine Ferretti / The Detroit News

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090206/METRO/902060381/&imw=Y

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Eleanore
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posted February 09, 2009 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is so horrible. Those poor children.

It's hard for me to fathom how parents do things like this and yet child abuse happens all the time, all over the world.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted February 09, 2009 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Eleanore, this is shocking, horrible, disgusting and contemptible. To strike out against the innocent, the powerless charges in your..generic your...care has to be the lowest level to which a human can sink.

We are reaping the whirlwind for devaluing human life and for our permissive culture which countenances atrocities like the murder, rape and torture under the Soviet Union, North Korea, Castro, Saddam and more recently, the Sudan and past atrocities such as Rwanda and UN inaction or direct action of UN personnel in raping and trading food for sex and the child porn rings which sprang up among high level UN personnel.

This is not intended to be a "political" statement but rather a recognition that the world we knew has gone mad...as in insane...even here.

I'm equally certain there will be those who will claim this woman is a victim.



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Mannu
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From: always here and no where
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posted February 09, 2009 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am so glad that I don't have kids

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MyVirgoMask
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Posts: 3480
From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 09, 2009 04:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Man, what the hell! This crazy broad needs some serious help, or something.

So, the kids are in foster care... I've heard that's no picnic either, but at least they're out of that hell. What a screwed up way to start life. I hope they find good parents, and aren't too messed up by then.

And everything was 'seemingly' normal to the outside...and how was this hidden from the father? How come he's not getting custody, unless he's under some kind of investigation?

It really ****** me off that there's no test to become a parent...any psycho can pretty much. Hate to say it, but some people ought to be neutered.

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Happy Dragon
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posted February 09, 2009 09:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
** the world has gone insane **
rekon it's always been that way ..
we just get to hear about it all sooner these days ..

hey .. at least she called and confessed to the cops ..
could have been loads worse ..
( not that i want to belittle the horror those kids went through )
on average in the uk .. one child per week
is killed by parents or members of their own family ..
pretty nasty statistic is that .. :-(((

** It really ****** me off that there's no test to become a parent.**
i'm with you on That one ..
but wonder what that would lead to ..

.. copper to lady with pram :
" have you got a licence for that kid m'aam ? "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
more insanity ..

re fires in australia
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/asia-pacific/7878106.stm~
" Police believe some of the fires were started deliberately .. "

~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/south_asia/7878240.stm ~
" A female Tamil Tiger rebel has blown herself up, killing 28 people .. "

N halts Gaza aid over 'thefts'
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/middle_east/7875171.stm ~
" t was the second incident in three days. On Tuesday, 3,500 blankets and more than 400 food parcels were seized at gunpoint from a distribution centre in Gaza, the UN said. "

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Ariefairy
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From: neptune!
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posted February 09, 2009 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ariefairy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 09, 2009 10:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
horrific. her husband should be punished too. you don't burn a childs eyelids with a screwdriver and not leave visable marks. sometimes i have to break away from watching the news as it really upsets me. crimes against children really upset me. what saddens me even more, thinkiing it is a cycle and the mother was probobly tortured as a child herself. it is truly heartbreaking.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted February 09, 2009 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"I'm equally certain there will be those who will claim this woman is a victim."

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 09, 2009 10:13 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry i had to be that guy, jwhop....thinking that the mother endured horrific things too.

i just can't see how else a person could have no value for human life. i mean who would do such a horrific thing?

i have to wonder how many home schooled children are being abused also. there are no other adults checking on these children and keeping them home to abuse is so much easier than sending them to school where an adult might questions bruises and burns.

there needs to be a way to at least twice a year to test home schooled children publically, to make sure they are alive and well.

sometimes i wish i could just shut my mind off.

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 09, 2009 10:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and in no way do i think whatever life she lived excuses her from accountability.
not at all.
i think everyone is accountable no matter the circumstances. period.
i was just pointing out it is a cycle.

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MyVirgoMask
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From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 09, 2009 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
". copper to lady with pram :
" have you got a licence for that kid m'aam ? "


LOL. It would make things interesting, you must admit. Not to make light of the light of the situation

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katatonic
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posted February 10, 2009 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
unfortunately it's scenarios like this that make government invasion and supervision of even our homes more acceptable to caring people...its a rock or a hard place.

you are right, jw, our world is in a very bad place. we are headed for a "watershed" moment for sure....

how did no one notice this? are the kids isolated at home? no school or friends?

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Dervish
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posted February 11, 2009 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, plenty of children are bullied & abused by adults and kids in school. I forget the exact toll, but I think it's millions of those in school don't even survive it (most turn to suicide, but there are other causes of death).

My best friend was abused by her dad. Once, when he tore out part of her hair in a drunken rage, she took it to the school counselor to show she was being abused. The counselor, may he rot in hell, decided there needed to be "communication" and tried calling the father (this after he swore not to tell her dad that she'd told on him, at least not until she was safe). This was done without her knowledge or consent. Luckily, their phone was out for the bill being so outstanding so that her grandparents got the call instead. So very, very lucky.

Kids in school aren't at all safe or protected, not even from abuse at home.

And I don't trust people checking on homeschoolers to make sure they're safe either. Especially if their funding is dependent on finding victims.

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 13, 2009 01:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
of course there is a huge defense of home schooled children. I would expect no less. nevermind the murdered children in the baltimore area, or in the atlanta area, or the boy kept in the chiminey for years. Not only do I believe it is a way to hide horrific abuse, I also think it is a way for lazy parents to do a whole bunch of nothing. I remember myson in 3rd grade withhis home schooled friend, I wouldn't let him play until his homework was finished and I asked his friend if he knew that math, nope, I asked his friend to write his name, and guess what, at 9 yrs old he could not even do that. his older brother took his test while his lazy mother slept till 12 noon every day.
how can parents with no college education do the job of dozen of educated teachers?
They can't.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted February 13, 2009 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In general, home schooled kids are far ahead of public school educated kids in reading, math, history and science...oh, and writing. It should be considered a criminal offense to send kids to a public school.

And then...there's this...for those who think homeschooling is geared to covering up child abuse.

Feb 9, 2009 10:48 pm US/Central
'Painful Lessons': Abuse At Chicago Schools
Hundreds Of Kids Beaten, Whipped, Even Choked By Teachers, Coaches Reporting
Dave Savini CHICAGO (CBS) ¯
CPS Takes Action On Corporal Punishment (10/7/2008)
Painful Lessons: Students Face Corporal Punishment (9/24/2008)


Hundreds of students have allegedly been beaten by teachers, coaches and staff at Chicago Public Schools. 2 Investigator Dave Savini continues his ongoing investigation involving the illegal use corporal punishment.

Treveon Martin, 10, is afraid of a teacher at his school.

"I've seen him hit five of them in the classroom," Martin said.

Martin says he and others have been hit, grabbed and even struck with a belt.

"He's threatened almost all the kids in his classroom," Martin said.

He says it happened at Robert Emmet Academy in November but a Chicago Public School investigator didn't talk to him until last week - 70 days after the case was reported, and not until after we started asking questions.

"He holded my arms and he picked my body up, and then he just slammed me on the desk," Martin said.

An exclusive CBS 2 investigation discovered Treveon Martin is one of at least 818 Chicago Public School students, since 2003, to allege being battered by a teacher or an aide, coach, security guard, or even a principal. In most of those cases - 568 of them - Chicago Public School investigators determined the children were telling the truth.

"I'm thinking that I don't really feel safe," Martin said.

The 2 Investigators found reports of students beaten with broomsticks, whipped with belts, yard sticks, struck with staplers, choked, stomped on and pushed down stairs. One substitute teacher even fractured a student's neck.

But even more alarming, in the vast majority of cases, teachers found guilty were only given a slap on the wrist.

CBS 2 informed former Chicago Public School CEO Arne Duncan of our investigative findings shortly before he was promoted to U.S. Secretary of Education.

"If someone hits a student, they are going to be fired. It's very, very simple," Duncan said.

Before heading to Washington, he vowed to take action.

"Any founded allegation where an adult is hitting a child, hitting a student - they're going to be gone," Duncan said.

But that's not what happened under Duncan's watch. Of the 568 verified cases, only 24 led to termination. Records show one teacher who quote "battered students for several years" was simply given a "warning" by the Board of Education.

And another student was given "100 licks with a belt." The abuse was substantiated, but the records show the teacher was not terminated.

Alderman Pat O'Connor is on the City Council Education Committee. He wants all these cases re-examined including the way Treveon Martin's was handled.

"I'll tell you what it is - it's deplorable," O'Connor said. "I really believe that the Board has dropped the ball in this instance."

He says this information was never brought to the committee's attention until now.

"You rely on them to follow the law, and clearly here, it doesn't appear that they have," O'Connor said.

There is a state law that bans corporal punishment. But as our 2 Investigators first exposed in September - students are being hit by coaches too. Paddles were confiscated, and CBS 2 exposed gym security tape at Simeon Career Academy showing a coach paddling volleyball players reportedly for missing serves.

Martin says the teacher injured him after he got into a scuffle with a classmate over an eraser.

"My back really hurted, and then at the end of the day, I had to go the hospital," Martin said.

His mother, Courtney Smith, says he was taken by ambulance and treated for a contusion on his back. It is children around his age who appear to be most at risk. The 2 Investigators found the students with the most complaints are in kindergarten through 8th grade.

"He doesn't have very much faith in anyone at his school," Smith said.

"He hurt my feelings," Martin said.

So why did it take over two months to look into Martin's case? School officials say it's because they have many cases to investigate. But just a few hours ago, an investigator determined the allegations against the teacher were unfounded. We are also told only two students were interviewed.

Incoming Chicago Public Schools CEO Ron Huberman is troubled by all these cases, including the case of Treveon Martin and promises to further review them, and that includes the process by which they are examined and investigated.

Alderman O'Connor is drafting a resolution and will bring our findings to the attention of the entire City Council this week.
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/Painful.Lessons.Abuse.2.931134.html

So naturally, Barack Hussein O'Bomber appointed the Chief of the Chicago School System, Arne Duncan to be Sec Education in his cabinet...to go with the tax cheats, thugs, pay for play artists and the rest of the corrupt in O'Bomber's administration.

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 13, 2009 03:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ah, so you think that is the norm? DId youever hear of school of choice, parents pick the school, get off thier lazy @sses and transport thier kid to a decent school. you seriously think home schooled kids are ahead acedemically? Do you seriously think more abuse is in public the an hidden behind closed doors? you don't think for one minute that it is possible that MANY of home schooling parents make lunch with thier kid and call it a lesson in nutrition, and that might be the only lesson they get that day? I know lots of families that home school and for the most part, I see a bunch of lazy @ss parents who can teach more bigotry than math and reading. I have a college education and forget algebra, so you tell me how a parent that did not graduate college is going to teach advanced math or two years of a foriegn language...oh, online cirriculum, no? give me a break. and your little story about chicago public schools makes no sense. PArents don't even hit thier kids, all it would take is one parent to sue the crap out of the school and trust me they would get the hint pretty quick. I know there are attorneys in chicago. But with school of choice you simply go on line find out the best school in your area and get your lazy @ss up and take your kid to school every day. Home schoolingp arents should at theveryleast have to take proficiency exams to prove that they are knowledgable enough in all subjects to provide a standard eduaction, then with annual physicals to check on these kids I might rethink my position. as it stands I think probobly a large percent are lazy, not dedicated to the educating, and a percentage of them keep the kids home to hide abuse and neglect as we have all seen in the news.

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 13, 2009 03:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
or are you saying who cares about the education the kids may or may not be recieving, lets keep them out of public school to protect them ....and raising a bunch of idiots doesn't matter? please clarify.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2009 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hahaha Let's talk facts shall we...instead of displaying emotional buttons.

RESULTS
Academic and demographic information from the largest national study of home schooled students

How do home schoolers measure up?

Home school students do exceptionally well when compared with the nationwide average. In every subject and at every grade level of the ITBS and TAP batteries, home school students scored significantly higher than their public and private school counterparts (Figure 1).

con't

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted February 13, 2009 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Con't

Because home education allows each student to progress at his or her own rate, almost one in four home school students (24.5%) are enrolled one or more grades above age level (Figure 2). It should be noted that home school scores were analyzed according to the student’s enrolled grade rather than according to the student’s age level. In other words, a 10-year-old home school student enrolled in 5th grade would have been compared to other students in the 5th grade, rather than to his age-level peers in the 4th grade. Thus, the demonstrated achievement of home schoolers is somewhat conservative.

On average, home school students in grades 1–4 perform one grade level higher than their public and private school counterparts. The achievement gap begins to widen in grade 5; by 8th grade the average home school student performs four grade levels above the national average (Figure 3).

Con't

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted February 13, 2009 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Con't

Another significant finding is that students who have been home schooled their entire academic lives have the highest scholastic achievement. The difference becomes especially pronounced during the higher grades, suggesting that students who remain in home school throughout their high school years continue to flourish in that environment (Figure 4).

Differences were also found among home school students when they were classified by amount of money spent on education, family income, parent education, and television viewing. However, it should be noted that home school students in every category scored significantly higher than the national average.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/rudner1999/Rudner2.asp

Another benefit of homeschooling is that home schooled children aren't being indoctrinated/propagandized in Socialist bullshiiiit by Socialist bullshiiit artists.

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Dervish
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posted February 14, 2009 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Abused kids generally don't have to be hidden at home.

Dangerous Schools : What We Can Do About the Physical and Emotional Abuse of Our Children by Irwin A. Hyman and Pamela A. Snook explores the emotional (and sometimes) physical damage done to students on an ordinary basis and fully within the laws & rules. (This even includes undercover police officers that get teen girls pregnant and get away with it.)

Kids schooled outside the system also tend to be better socialized. Even Julie Webb researched homeschooled students, and found that their socialization skills were often better than their peers. Since she did her research for 1989 Educational Review, I consider it unlikely that she came to her conclusions out of a desire to "create propaganda" for the promotion of homeschooling.

Kids who are homeschooled (I include all types, not just the standard way of doing it) are often involved in other social groups, from the Y and Scouts or Camp Fire USA, to groups for them specifically. For example, there's the Not Back to School Camp:
http://nbtsc.org/

It's also common for colleges to require freshmen to take "bonehead" courses because their education is substandard. This is less of a problem with homeschoolers of various kinds (they have different problems in getting in, but these problems have become much less over the last few years, just as it has become harder for those that graduate from a high school to get in).

In many academic contests, it's not unusual for homescoholed students to win over those in a public or private school.

Also, you don't need a college education to teach. In many states, all you need to be able to do academically is pass what's about as difficult as the GED to get credentialed (this is usually enough for substitutes, though taking classes is usually required to make a career out of it--unless you just become an instructor at a college). Even when teachers DO actually know something about their subject, they're generally not allowed to teach it. Only what's in the textbook, as it's dangerous to one's career to do otherwise. Parents that homeschool have access to the same types of "keys" or "answer books" for kids, and are meant only to cover the basics (in some cases to be pointless).

See also, Stupid in America:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

You may have heard about Jaime Escalante. But after he left, the school he worked at destroyed all his progress. He eventually gave up trying to improve American schools and went back to his native country (other teachers, also disillusioned, are now encouraging homeschooling and even unschooling). Here's Escalante's story:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28479.html

Obviously, I speak of schooling in the USA. I'm aware it's different in other countries (though I'm not sure HOW different).

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sunshine_lion
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posted February 14, 2009 06:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop - i would believe those statistics if it werent possible for ANYONE to log in and take those tests. i am quite sure there are some like that illiterate child i spoke about, whose older siblings took his tests.
and of course socialization skills, learning how to be part of a group and work together with peers is important. substitute teachers, fill ins, do not have college education, regular teachers do. it is a requirement. if they had site testing requiring the presence of the child, i MIGHT believe those statistics. there definately needs to be more structured requirements for many reasons. anyway this is off topic, horrendous abuse can happen anywhere I guess, but those five kids in baltimore who are now dead at the hands of their home schooling mother will never get to see how they stack up academically against the kids who had a teacher for every subject.

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Dervish
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posted February 14, 2009 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sunshine Lion, are you saying that kids are unlikely to develop social skills outside a school? If so, why? (Or do you mean only if prevented from doing so?)

Btw, even with college, it doesn't make teachers smarter or more capable to teach. And there's good reason for the saying, "Those who can't do, teach."

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MyVirgoMask
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posted February 18, 2009 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think home schooling is great - not saying it can't be, but at the same time those I have met who are home schooled seem completely sheltered and naive. Sure, they can be just as well-educated (academically), but that doesn't mean they know much about social survival. And if you don't think social survival and adaptation is not an important to education....well. They may 'interact' socially within specific social groups, but that's just within groups that have a very well-defined and definite structure. What about outside of that box and into the world? No, the whole thing just reeks to me. Homeschooling is fine if the parents are diverse themselves and educated, but Sunshine is right. There's way too many people out there who want to keep their kids sheltered in a little precious bubble, whether to make sure they grow up into little bigoted replicas, or to keep them insular and away from the outside. At some point the kid's got to step out into the world, and the older they are, the harder it is to adapt. It's like people who never leave their own country or state and have no awareness of the outside world, and yet are so 'sure' their way are the only way. It doesn't work like that, the world's a big place. How diverse is it to keep someone completely sheltered away from life?

I'm not speaking about ALL home schooled kids...but I think home schooling in general is just too precious. I can understand if there's instances of abuse and violence in a public school, but that's certainly not the only reason parents home school!

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