posted December 08, 2002 11:04 PM         

Has anyone had occasion to delve into the English Cabalah by William Eisen? These books are fairly advanced, and based on the teachings of a discarnate entity called Agasha, Master of Wisdom.

Like Lexigrams and numerology, I have found many of the things in these books fascinating, if slightly vexing. Like anything else, I can't say I'm in 100% agreement, but they have inspired a good amount of spiraling here.

Would love to discuss them with any other knowflakes who may be familiar with them.

Pax et Bonum...

posted December 10, 2002 09:38 PM         

Well, I have all 4 of them, and have had them for almost 20 years!! And do you know what? Everytime I sit down and try to get a grasp on them, I end up putting them back on the bookshelf, thinking I will get back to them another time. Well, time has just flown by and I still haven't gotten a grasp on them. Guess I am just not ready for them.

posted December 17, 2002 01:59 PM         

Well, I honestly do not know much of the Kabala, and I certainly do not know about the English Cabala. What is the difference? I did notice that Agasha is ah,saga backwards, and the Qabala is certainly a saga (of sorts) of epic proportions!

I knew much of this in the distant past, but the knowledge has become just a shadow of lives past. I abused the powers of the Sephiroth, using them darkly on the Left Hand Path, which I suspect is one reason I have somewhat avoided the practice in this life. But it has always fascinated me. I love the way the energies work in a fractal-like manner, becoming as complicated or as simple as one would make them, never ending, yet always complete.

Why do you think Linda spelled it Kabala?

How many Sephiroth are there? Linda, and most others I suppose, numbered them seven, but the book I have numbers them ten.

To what extent do you practice? Or know?

I am afraid I will not be able to hold an intelligent, knowledgeable conversation about this, but I would certainly like to know more! Perhaps it is time to re-awaken this knowledge and energy that I am so attracted to.

Thank you for stirring up this thing within me that has been awaiting realization. I think I will dig up some of my old books!

posted December 17, 2002 04:34 PM         

I just want to say that I have not delved into the Qabbalah at all and did not even know there was an English version but would be honoured if you could explain all you understand about these books.
This has been one subject I have just simply avoided and I think its because every time it came to my attention I turned the other way...because I did not feel ready to understand it, I think?!

Donna, I too have a book that sits on the shelf brand new, every time I think I am ready something comes up and I have to put it away. This is interesting...I guess when we are ready we will both finally read these books

Aselzion could you please explain the concept of the Qabbalah to me...I am intrigued!

posted December 17, 2002 04:41 PM         

Thanks for the honest and personal reply!

Linda spelled it Kabala because of the numerology. 2+1+2+1+3+1=10 She liked the Isis and Osiris connection of the number 10, among its other meanings.

In terms of what I know.. well, I hear the call of the Qabalah (1+1+2+1+3+1+5=14 and I like the Angelic aspect of that number) thundering to me from a distant past as a Chaldean/Hebrew High Priest.

What I know of the QBL in this lifetime I have learned mostly from the works of Paul Foster Case and Dion Fortune, both one time members of the Order of the Golden Dawn.

Their work was entirely based on Hebrew QBL. But as Linda discusses, I think that English is at least as powerful a language. It may not have been the FIRST... but I think it is where language is evolving to... if this makes any sense. Take for example, Lexigrams: as Linda states, I believe that they only work the way they do in English.

The English Cabalah as presented by Eisen examines the mysteries of the 2 universal numbers Pi (3.14159265) and Phi (1.618034). Pi is related to function and Phi is related to form. (according to one of my Teachers) Phi is that number referred to as the Golden Mean... (hmmm as I think of this I feel that it might be worth Lexigramming that phrase; The Golden Mean)

I don't know why I chose to address that query to you.. ostensibly it was because you appear so well read in metaphysics... but now I think there may have been another reason... Time will tell. Do you sense it?

In terms of Sephiroth, I number them 10. As the Sephir Yetzirah states: "Ten Sephiroth of Nothingness, ten and not nine, ten and not eleven. Understand with Wisdom, Be Wise with Understanding, Examine with them and probe from them..." However there is also what is known as the Invisible Sphere, Daath... but that is a mystery of which little is written or spoken.

Seven I number to be the major Chakras of the spiritual body, though the astrologer in me wants to number them 12... and more.

Pax et Bonum...

Aselzion

posted December 17, 2002 05:41 PM         

Let's see...

The Qabalah, whose disciplines include the occult sciences of astrology, numerology and tarot, forms the basis of the Western Mystery Tradition. It is a system of mystical knowledge and spiritual development; a diagram that represents a blueprint of the the universe and the human being, containing within itself a description of all possible relationships and phenomena.

The diagram is called the Tree of Life, and basically it gives us a place to hang all our combined knowledge and data. It consists of ten spheres called Sphiroth, and 22 paths that connect and interconnect these spheres.

in a way it can be the 10 planets and 12 signs.. it can also be the 22 keys of the Tarot's Higher Arcana plus the 10 planets.

I find it very interesting that if one takes the 22 Higher Arcana of the Tarot and divides by the 7 classical planets (Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury and the Moon) one gets a very close approximation of Pi.. the number of FORM.

22/7= 3.14(285) PI

In fact, that method of thinking is the essence of Qabalah. In Hebrew each letter was also a number. In fact, in most other languages, the symbols for the NUMBERS were THE SAME as the symbols for the Letters... so each WORD was also a NUMBER. So, if that is the case, the Qabalists deduced that each word that represented the same number were interconnected.. or interchangeable.

Ok.. now I'm babbling. If this makes any sense, feel free to question further. It's a very complex system.. but it's also very simple, as Ra has stated. But this is a start. If it sparks something, I'd be happy to discuss it further.

Bright Blessings and happy spiraling...

A

posted December 18, 2002 01:54 AM         

Thanks, but it isn't a matter of "leagues". It's basically like being in different grades in school. Some just are born earlier and get to a particular grade BEFORE the younger ones, that's all.

I am by no means an expert, and I'm always looking to expand my own knowledge base. Sometimes the newbies at something see more clearly than those of us biased by years, and perspectives and viewpoints.

Qabalah is not NECESSARILY the next step from astrology, but they do share much common ground. Behind it ALL is God.

One of my Teachers is not at all interested in Qabalah, and she encourages my meanderings there, but is unable to guide me in other than a rudimentary way. But when it really matters, she can whip an answer out of the ethers and astound me at her insight.. or the insight of her guides.

So dream away and ask away... if you are interested, I'll try to point you in the right direction...remember, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

Blessed be...

A

posted December 18, 2002 01:23 PM         

Indeed, time always tells, and sense it I do. Connected in some way we are, I knew it from the first time I saw your name. Perhaps we were Brothers in the faith, or perhaps we were forces opposed. I do get a vague sense of being in a student position in some way.

Anyway, interesting thoughts. I will certainly be asking for access into these records at some point. I have no physical teachers at this time, so I must rely upon the pointers given through other means - such as this.

Thanks for pointing!

posted December 18, 2002 05:55 PM         

Stella: The Chaldean alphabet was passsed on to the or shared by the Hebrews if I recall correctly.. it was called esoterically an alphabet of flames, as the Hebrew script almost looks like tongues of fire. And as I said, each letter symbol was also a number symbol so every word IS indeed a number too.

How that got translated into English is, I believe a matter of the way the letters SOUND when spoken... some of it I believe just evolved over time. But I am by no means a scholar in such things. I think that process is called transliteration.

I was aware that in Greek the letters were also numbers, but I have not yet had the luxury to explore that alphabet. However, I DO KNOW that the Greeks had their own form of Qabalah.

So in short, from Chaldean/Hebrew to English was a matter of SOUNDS.

Now, though Linda presented that as the only true and reliable numerological alphabet.. I have to disagree. I would say that it may be a tad more ESOTERIC or spirtually based. But all systems work if you KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THEM.

If we wanted to bring English in line with the other languages, another way of valuing the letters would be by their POSITION in the alphabet.. thus A = 1, B = 2, I = 9, S = 19, and Z = 26 etc.

So.. in that light we could interpret the number Pi (Greek letter, no?) as such:

3.14159265 = 3, 14, 15, 26 and 5
C. N OI ZE which looks like it spells C. NOISE .. we can talk about this more later.

another example:

1.618034 = 16, 18, 0, 3, 4
P ROCD which looks like it spells PROCEED. Now here we see that the 0 can be a space (NOTHING), or the Letter O, because of its shape!

As I say.. we can get into what that all might MEAN another time, just showing the PROCESS at the moment.

or the REVERSE:

GOD could be 7, 15, 4 OR just as easily
GOD could be 7, 0, 4 because the zero can also represent the letter O due again to the shape.

Confusing? Clear as mud??

Again, just a taste. Please feel free to question anything and everything.

Blessed Be...

A

posted December 18, 2002 08:24 PM         

Pi is the Greek letter "p"...now in the English alphabet "O" is the 15th letter and so it is in the Greek alphabet, the 15th letter! So in both alphabets the 15th letter is "O"!
In the word GOD, 7 0 4 you say 0 can stand for nothing or everything.
So we know that God is everything since I see the zero as all/everything/neverending/complete!
I understand the number 7 to be very spiritual and the number 4 as the physical manifestation of the spiritual.
Adding 7 and 4 = 11, which is a master number.
Well the number 11 is so prevalent in my life and the numbers 7 and 4 are very signifcant in a very special relationship of mine...won't get into that right now.
You know its amazing how God and the Spirit work...

Ra, hope you are reading this too, in my reply to my dream you interpreted the other day I mentioned the master numbers 11 and 22. I see 11s everywhere as messages...sometimes as answers to questions...this has been going on for several years, and now I find myself drawn to the mystery of the Qabala and the first discussion we have, you Aselzion, give the example of the word GOD (who is my everything)!
Okay, forgive me please everyone if I am just bubbling around not making sense but this is how my mind is thinking right now....so to continue on my train of thought, Aselzion, my Neptune is conj my MC exactly! (I know many must have this aspect) but for me it feels like I am sitting on a mountain talking and wanting to learn so much from God...I see God everywhere in everything and I know the guidance I receive through my studies in astrology, numerology now and going deeper and deeper into the occult...now beginning with the Qabala. There is a very big message in here as well.
I am going to do some research on the net as well so I don't scare you away with too many questions
You are right Aselzion when the student is ready the teacher appears...your energy attracted me when I first saw your name ...as many on this board have as well...but with you there is something more beckoning ....umm how can I say...not as earthly or mundane (oh dear hope I haven't confused you I mean this with my highest and purest intentions and I hope you understand. So once again I see my Neptune calling out....I am going to sleep on all this again but I believe you are playing a roll in this mystery I'm trying to delve into, and I do feel you amongst others to be my guide. This will definitely be a very interesting thread!

Stella, thank you for getting us both started here...hugs to you my Virgo friend and "filakia" to Ellas!

theFajita, as always you are sweet

I will see you all tomorrow, now I

Thank you Aselzion

posted December 19, 2002 01:07 PM         

I can't tell you much about the Greek Qabalah as I have not studied it, nor do I know even it's most basic components.. I would however refer you to 2 books by Raymond Hulse called The Key Of It All vols. 1 and 2, available I'm sure through amazon.com or any other online source. He does discuss the Greek Qabalah in some detail.

I think that Linda's system should probably only be applied to English words and phrases, and that to perform numerology or Qabalistic permutations of words and numbers, in Greek you would HAVE to use the Greek letter/number equivalents.

Hebrew Qabalah in HEBREW must use the Hebraic values of the numbers, which are NOT the same as their English equivalents. And though the Hebrew Alphabet does only contain 22 letters to my knowledge, there are I believe Five or Six FINAL LETTERS, which are variations of their regular form when they are found at the END of a word. Their numerical Value is increased by tenfold.

As an example in HEBREW... the letter Tzaddi which is roughly equivalent to the English sound Ts or X has a value of 90. When at the end of the word it becomes FINAL Tzaddi and has a numerical value of 900.

I know this sounds confusing and as I say, I am not an expert in the field. Do try to read Hulse's books, he discusses many different Keys from Hebrew to Greek to Latin Qabalah, to tarot and astrology. Very interesting reading.. if a little dense.

I hope this makes sense, but if not, just keep chipping away, and I'll try to help you where I can.

The take home message for this post I guess is you must stick to the numerical system for the LANGUAGE and ALPHABET that you are working with. Trying to make the English values work on Greek words/numbers would be like comparing apples and oranges. It don't add up! (pun intended)

Blessings in the Light...

A

posted December 19, 2002 01:33 PM         

Hmmmm... I can see that Neptune influence, but you also have a Fire vibe going on in the nativity somewhere I'd imagine. If NOT.. then you may have a LACK of Fire, which would make you seek to incorporate the Fire energy into your being.

I try to follow Linda's advice and keep one foot on Earth and one foot in Heaven... but I have a tendency sometimes to become too heavy footed in first one side and then the other.. of course that would be a relection of my own nativity!

I'd be happy to hold up the lamp for you where I can to shed light on your Path, but as I say.. I am still a student myself.. I think I will always be, no matter how much of a Teacher vibe I generate from time to time. Again I'd have to say that would be a reflection of my own chart placements.

That being said... I liked your observations about God.. I often talk to God and my angels and guides. I also tend to see God in many circumstances and what all... but sometimes I still get caught in the workaday world that leaves little time for lofty thoughts.

Hope I didn't miss any questions there, but if I did, please feel free to redirect!

Peace and magic...

A

posted December 19, 2002 03:28 PM         

The Chaldean/Hebraic letters are numbered in much the same way as the Greek system that you mentioned: 1-9, 10-90, 100-400 and then the finals: 500, 600, 700, 800 and 900 with the final Aleph numbered 1000.

It is my belief, that the original Qabalah was broght to mankind by the Angel Metatron and or Uriel. A clairvoyant once told me that I was also part of the angelic group that brought and protected Qabalah to the ancients. I can't say if this is true.. but it did seem to resonate in a part of my Soul memory. And that clairvoyant had no way to know that I was studying Qabalah at the time. Interesting !

History tells us that it was passed down by the High Priests as an oral tradition, and was not written down until MUCH, MUCH later. And still it is passed on as mostly an ORAL tradition. And much of what was written was in codes known as Gematria, Temurah and Notariqon. The Qabalists believed that by these codes, the Bible or Torah could be understood on a more Esoteric or spiritual level than the outward text appears on the surface. And of course this knowledge was jealously guarded to keep the masses "in the dark".

In terms of The English Cabalah I mentioned earlier.. it was brought forth by a man named William Eisen, who was a member of an esoteric group known as the Agasha Temple. I believe that it still meets in California to this day.

Agasha was/is a discarnate entity that started speaking through a trance medium named Richard Zenor in the early to mid 20th century... sorry, right now I'm too lazy to go dig up the book to get the dates! Eisens work on the English Cabalah was inspired by the teachings of Agasha.

Hope this helps.

Pax vobiscum...

A

posted December 19, 2002 03:55 PM         

Aleph 1 A
Beth 2 B, Bh
Gimel 3 G, Gh
Daleth 4 D, Dh
Heh 5 H
Vav 6 U, V, W
Zain 7 Z
Cheth 8 Ch of the HARD C (ck) sound
Teth 9 T
Yod 10 I, J, Y
Kaph 20 K, Kh
Lamed 30 L
Mem 40 M
Nun 50 N
Samech 60 S
Ayin 70 O
Peh 80 F, P, Ph
Tzaddi 90 X, Ts/Tz
Qoph 100 Q
Resh 200 R
Shin 300 S, Sh, Sch
Tav 400 T, Th

Sorry this looks like HELL, I tried to format it better, but when I submitted it kept coming out like this!

So we can extrapolate Cheiro's System.. that we call the Chaldean System:

1 = A, I , J, Q, Y
2 = B, K, R
3 = C, G, L, S
4 = D, M, T
5 = E, H, N, X
6 = U, V, W
7 = O, Z
8 = F, P

Now, Samech doesn't have a REAL English equivalent so we use Shin and the S is a 3 not a 6.

Tzaddi, doesn't have a useful English equivalent except X. But as Linda states the Chaldeans didn't use the 9 vibration because it represented the sacred NINE lettered name of God. So for some reason I can't explain, the X was allocated to the 5.

Teth is a T sound, but it's not the same as the TAV.. and it's also got a value of 9, so it wasn't used in the Chaldean System. They opted instead to use TAV = 400 = 4

I hope this helps a bit to see how Cheiro/Linda arrived at those allocations. All I can tell you, is from my experience the system works. Particularly in an Esoteric or Spiritual sense.

I hate to say this, but if you carefully read Cheiro's book, called Cheiro's Book of Numbers.. Linda played pretty fast and loose with the plagiarism. This is NOT a judgment call, but an observation. Her whole numerology section was almost a direct exposition of Cheiro's work.

All I can say is that she stated in Star Signs that the book was based on a diary she kept while in the mountains. So perhaps she copied the stuff from Cheiro into her diary, and then just copied the diary for publication, adding her own insights to his basic interpretations.

Hope this helps.

Aselzion

posted December 19, 2002 07:52 PM         

Don't understand how you saw Fire theme in all that I posted before...could you please clarify?

I too understand that as much as I would love to dwell in the spiritual realm, I am in a physical body which must comply to physical reality. With a preponderance of planets in Earth its quite a journey I have chosen because everything in my chart connects to Neptune-MC!
Do you have any suggestions on the energy of the 11 like I posted before?

Stella how about you? agalitsa apo mena

Aselzion, can you explain what you understand about esoteric study of astrology through studying the Qabalah...that is where I want to delve into now please.

So fellow student of the Universe I am taking you up on your offer to hold a lamp up for me on my path...(I can see the Hermit in the Tarot right now...) and will gladly return the favour if you ever need it from little me

posted December 19, 2002 08:45 PM         

Well 11 is a fascinating number, as it is pictured by Justice in the Esoteric Tarot. If you look at the 11 you can almost see two number ones staring back at each other, so it becomes a symbol of balance and equalibrium; two EQUAL but OPPOSING forces. When you add 1 + 1 = 2 it brings into manifestation the idea of DUALITY. Which only exists on the material plane.. or at least SEEMS to.

Why the 11 is JUSTICE and NOT the "Lion Muzzled" becomes abundantly clear when one lays out the numbers and/or thir corresponding TAROT Hihger Arcana cards. I'll show you one example, and you show me some more, ok?

Darn, I wish I knew how to format this better so I could center the digram, but I think you'll get the general idea.

posted December 19, 2002 09:12 PM         

Where I pick up Fire or its lack.. was in the way you seem to dive headlong into a subject, with great enthusiasm (Fire), and direct candor.. which I generally equate with Sagittarius.. more Fire. I also detect a wee bit of impatience to know it all now... dammit, that also kind of smacks of Fire energy. But I don't have your nativity in front of me either. So it was just an assumption.. and we all know what happens when one ASSUMES anything.

Well 11 is a fascinating number, as it is pictured by Justice in the Esoteric Tarot. If you look at the 11 you can almost see two number ones staring back at each other, so it becomes a symbol of balance and equalibrium; two EQUAL but OPPOSING forces. When you add 1 + 1 = 2 it brings into manifestation the idea of DUALITY. Which only exists on the material plane.. or at least SEEMS to.

Why the 11 is JUSTICE and NOT the "Lion Muzzled" becomes abundantly clear when one lays out the numbers and/or thir corresponding TAROT Higher Arcana cards. I'll show you one example, and you show me some more, ok?

Darn, I wish I knew how to format this better so I could center the diagram, but I think you'll get the general idea.

1....2....3....4....5....6....7
8....9...10...11...12...13...14
15...16...17...18...19...20...21

OK that looks kinda crappy, but as I say, I think you'll soon see the point.

See next post for conclusion (this is a test, I seem to be overloading the internet here)

posted December 19, 2002 09:23 PM         

Again, looking at the middle row of numbers: 8 -11-14. If you add the 14 and the 8 you get 22. Divide by 2 and once again, that brings the 11 into manifestation. Balance/Justice... LIBRA.

Ok, your turn.

Students of Tarot will note the missing 0 number/card which is the Fool. Anyone know where he fits in the scheme?

Now, you may ask, what does this all have to do with Esoteric Astrology? It starts to hint at why Libra is the only sign in the zodiac that is NOT pictured by a living entity. It's symbol has always been the Scales. The Balance. Ideas??

Spiral on this for a bit, and then we'll go a bit further. FAIR deal??

Sorry, having a bit of Qabalistic fun here now!

Love and Light...

posted December 19, 2002 09:24 PM         

Sorry about the confusion and the crazy posts... any way to DELETE that message TIMED: 8:45?

Thanks so much...

posted December 20, 2002 02:36 PM         

1....2....3....4....5....6....7
8....9...10...11...12...13...14
15...16...17...18...19...20...21

First thing I notice is that 7 (spiritual) is the difference btwn numbers in each row eg. 1 8 15 (the first numbers in each row)and so on down each row as you have typed them...7 (the 7th house - Libra)

Now another one...when you add 2 and 16 you get 18 which divided by 2= 9....sooooo you always get the balance in the middle row...3+17 = 20 which divided by 2 = 10 etc etc...

I am going to re-read your post because like you correctly perceived I dive headlong into something with enthusiasm...that dear Aselzion is my chart dispositor Venus in Aries...the only unaspected planet (by Ptolemaic standards), also domicile in 2nd.....would you have guessed?

Will be back soon...just got off work!

This is exciting
(of course I am probably way off track but had to share my thoughts when I saw your post)