posted September 19, 2004 10:48 AM         

Thankyou for the link - very interesting.

So at which level do you think we have to reach before being considered to be enlightened? How do we define this?

Love

posted September 19, 2004 11:42 AM         

I think that enlightenment is relative to the perspective

Someone of a lower level will view someone of a higher level as enlightened.

From a personal perspective i would say that the seventh level was only the beginning of true enlightenment illustrated in the words of Rumi at the bottom of the page

"If you could get rid
Of yourself just once,
The secret of secrets
Would open to you.
The face of the unknown,
Hidden beyond the universe
Would appear on the
Mirror of your perception"

This suggests a whole new world opening up to that person; which would need to be explored.
What lies beyond that?
Would you then go full circle and have some other part of your self take on a dominant roll, in order to experience that piece of you?

------------------
-------------------------
you kill a man in my name
when all i teach is not to mame. --unknown--

posted September 19, 2004 12:32 PM         

How do you know if someone is enlightened?

How would we ever be able to tell if someone is truly enlightened, when it is ever elusive to tell if we ourselves are?

The moment that you see yourself as more enlightened.....in the next it will be revealed that you are not.
It's an everchanging interlude of the Soul.
There are steps forward.....and then there are steps back. I'm not sure if I believe in levels....but it is interesting to think about.

The way people project themselves is not always a true reflection of their beings.
Some are better at projecting themselves as enlightened with lofty thoughts and interjections that make you believe it is so.
Whereas the quiet man who never says a word about it, may be more intune spiritually.

Human personality is subject to facade. I don't believe it is something one can tell in another. Even their actions may be deceptive and self-indulgent, if they have decided that the Image they hope to project is as an Enlightened One.

Perfect example is the Beatles' sojourn to India, where the Yogi they believed could transform then turned out to be a fake.
What lessons that must have taught them at the time.

Guess what I'm trying to say, but not as coherently as I would like at the moment, is that to seek enlightenment from others is an invitation to disillusionment,
for enlightenment is only ever revealed through a sojourn into OneSelf.

posted September 19, 2004 12:58 PM         

I have limited time at the moment, but have managed a quick read of your post

The words which spring to mind from what you have said are ;- Know yourself, know your Lord.

I will check back later to see where other people's thoughts are spiralling to.

posted September 19, 2004 01:15 PM         

About your quote "There are steps forward.....and then there are steps back."

I remembered something, journey to God can be desribed as steps that one takes one after the other. The step that was last taken dissolves under your feet.

You are right, I think this post must be renamed "What is enlightement?"
as the question "How to know some one is enlightener" is a more subjective question...

We have to be objective in our thoughts to realize the beautiful nature of enlightment and not subject it to superficialities of the world.

posted September 19, 2004 02:10 PM         

That is a Powerful story and lights the Path a little brighter doesn`t it?

Thank you for sharing and I`m certain others are contemplating the message as well

posted September 19, 2004 02:52 PM         

Heart and soul, I agree with what you are saying about people with lofty thoughts etc. I imagine a truly enlightened being would have no need to try and prove who/what he is. And the quiet man.........what do they say about still waters???

iAMthat, I think you are right the subject we are now discussing has changed it has become a different thread to the one started. Perhaps what we are trying to define is something indefinable by our limited concepts?

Juni, thankyou its always a pleasure to share with friends. So often people overlook the little stories I post

posted September 20, 2004 02:27 AM         

Also, have you noticed how subjective concerns often accelerate enlightenment?

Trauma, loss....the most painful experiences in life most often shake us out of the complacency that hinders our growth.

Trauma draws us tightly inward for a spell.....so tightly that we can see no world outside our own subjective concerns.....
we dwelve so intensly, with such force of energy it seems the objective view is pulled into us as well and realized
and that's when the Ahhhhh! occurs.

Experience is a road to enlightenment.
Walking on and on with your footsteps dissolving behind you.

For a subjective example.....my own prominent natal Neptune influence granted me the naivete' to believe only in the goodness of others. It took life experience to be revealed deceptiveness of humanity....much to my horror.....but hence the 'enlightenment' of learning to only seek within.

It's both subjectivity and objectivity I believe. Too much of one is no good without the other. Surrendering to OneSelf and then Reaching outwards for understanding of "why?"

Perhaps that is why we are here.....experiencing each moment on this spinning orb here and now.

Tomorrow never knows.

Hello Orchid
Far out in the ocean where it's most still....you'll find your deepest waters there. There's nothing more to do but Listen.

posted September 20, 2004 01:31 PM         

mike I am scared to go to that website because usually I go to a new website and I get like 50 pop - ups and then my computer goes slow and I have to restart it so if I say or ask you something that is covered by the webpage that you posted - don't be mad.
I think that control of the self is very important but I think that much of the time when one hears the word control, they think that it means to keep the thing in question under wraps and I don't feel that this is correct I think that to control something (in this context) is to know
how to manipulate it (not the negative connotation) and like you said change it, that is powerful...but never destroy.

I think that the ego is good because when you get to a certain point you may still feel certain impulses but you would be able to see how it will serve your "reason and judgement" and then it will be working in concert with these things not dominating and the ego will not be left behind as you "evolve": it will be transmutated too and I think, that can only be the true evolvement when all things are preserved, illuminated and used properly.

posted September 22, 2004 10:30 PM         

I don't remember I told you, but I do liked the story you posted. Personally I think stories have a powerful effect on human mind. They are easy to understand with great hidden truth.

posted September 22, 2004 10:47 PM         

I would like to consolidate your own thoughts in to these words.

Yes ofcouse we do learn from observance or put simply experience of others. Remember we are here to learn as much as we could and return to the light, we will continue to be cycled and recycled till we are fit to enter the next level of existence.

Our higher self, knows all about us and what we must learn in our life. It influences the people we are supposed to meet in our life and etc etc...based on where we are in this journey of life.

The more painful the experience is, the more you will be grasping the lessons learned.

When we make jewelery don't we heat the gold in fire. The more we heat the more it will shine.

I also do have a neptune influence in my chart. I dream a lot. Sometimes its good sometimes its bad. I have to learn from my mistakes. About feeling deceived by fellow brothers or sisters, I too and I am sure everyone in their life must be feeling it at some point of their life. Live it to the Creator to rebuke that person. Remember experiences both good and bad are part of the learning. If you have learned the lesson well the bad experience will not destroy you. In short time it will dissapear with no trace. Keep the faith. Its important to catch the lesson you learnt in that experience. If you do not learn it, that is worth crying over for.

Regards.

posted August 15, 2006 01:50 PM         

Well anyhow....
On topic....

posted August 16, 2006 12:05 AM         

quote:

---

I also do have a neptune influence in my chart. I dream a lot. Sometimes its good sometimes its bad. I have to learn from my mistakes. About feeling deceived by fellow brothers or sisters, I too and I am sure everyone in their life must be feeling it at some point of their life. Live it to the Creator to rebuke that person. Remember experiences both good and bad are part of the learning. If you have learned the lesson well the bad experience will not destroy you. In short time it will dissapear with no trace. Keep the faith. Its important to catch the lesson you learnt in that experience. If you do not learn it, that is worth crying over for.

---

posted August 16, 2006 12:56 AM         

I had somehow missed what you had written , back when I was Heart&Soul, don't know how. (Spacey Neptune? )
Anyway...
I dream a lot too. Wild, blissful, heart-wrenching vivid dreams, always.
Thanks for what you wrote. Maybe I was better meant to hear it now anyway.

Profound and well-noted, my friend, Mannu, thank you.

Fayte and Mirandee, profound as well.
Intriguing quote, Wednsday.