posted August 31, 2004 08:45 PM         

It would be great if the enlightened ones wore their haloes (or Golden Angel backlighting a la Touched By An Angel)for us all to see, but unfortunately, unless one is Gifted with The Sight, we often miss that sign of enlightenement.

So, I'd say:

"By their fruits (deeds) ye shall know them!"

It's very easy to talk the talk! I respect more the people that walk the walk! Or at least walk their talk!

Hope that helps a bit.

In the Light...
A

posted August 31, 2004 10:27 PM         

I would have been here sooner, but I was busy shining my halo!

Actually, I was helping a friend start moving to her new home... by the time I got in, decompressed a bit and then had a chance to write a reply, you must have been doing the same thing... on the other side of the world!

The Great Mind thinks alike!

In the Light...
A

posted September 01, 2004 12:01 AM         

You know, as synchronicity would have it, I just went out for lunch to read more of "Conversations with God" where God says:

quote:

---

Enlightenment is understanding that you have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you are being right now.

---

so I guess that's all of us, right? Of course understanding is the question now...

posted September 01, 2004 10:45 AM         

An intriguing question & one I certainly have asked mys-elf and others..

We can agree Christ was an Evolved/Enlightened Soul Yet, only a handful recognised him.

As we hop from text to text looking for Soul Evolution/Enlightenment, are we searching for the Christ/Enlightenment to be Known thru the authors knowledge, words or concepts?

Or as the Disciples, Soul recognition is how we know what we Know?

For me, my answer is: know the state of your Soul then you can see the state of others. Our intellectual state doesn`t hold the answer, our Heart & Soul does.

One onion among many

Dean, you said :

quote:

---

Enlightenment is understanding that you have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you are being right now

---

I apologise in advance for being thick headed, but it isn`t clear to me. Would you elaborate on it for me?

Love,

posted September 01, 2004 06:46 PM         

Therefore, being you is axactly what you're meant to be. If You are unhappy about that, then change it, but God loves you either (and any) way. It's a very inspiring book

Juni, your head is in no way thick ,

posted September 01, 2004 09:54 PM         

Upon reviewing the original question let me say that perhaps enlightenment is nothing more than mere perception. Not just "able to be seen", but depending on the situation.
One person may be pondering something for a long, loooong time and then some random, ordinary guy says something that makes complete sense to the one who has been mulling over his question.
Suddenly the man has his answer and he swears that the ordianry Joe is enlightened when all he really needed was to step out of his line of thinking and assimilate another perspective into the matter.
(meanwhile Joe thinks this guy is nuts because he was just walking down the street eating his hot dog he got at the gas station and this dude who was sitting there all day is suddenly calling him a genius!!!)

A group of Native Americans were sitting around a fire. One pulls out a feather. He describes his observations of the feather to the others then passes it to the next guy. That guy does the same. Eventually the feather has gone around the entire circle and everyone has a larger, more complete perspective on the feather. Each man wiser than he was before. Perhaps that is true enlightment.

posted September 02, 2004 02:55 AM         

Interesting...

posted September 02, 2004 12:02 PM         

Are you saying that God is ambivilent, and does not care less what we do? He only checks in on us occasionally?

That is not how most parents are with their children. Yes most parents do still love their children unconditionally no matter what mistakes they make, but that does not mean they will sit back and allow them to do whatever they wish without consequence, or without caring. When my children make errors I do not love them any less,and nor does God love us any less when we err. BUT I do CARE about what they are doing and what they are being and so does God.

Enlightened...to be filled with light. To see. One in whom the light within is visible.

"So awake, reflect, watch, work with care and attention. Live in the way and the light will grow in you." - Buddha

" If therefore your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly full of light, as when the lamp with its bright shining gives you light.” -Jesus

A teaching story, which my teacher gave to me : )

There was once an Idiot, we will call him the Beloved Idiot because he is the real teacher.Anyway,the idiot lost his key, and he was in the back garden going through all the rows of plantings, when the villiagers asked him what he was doing he replied "looking for my key" They said.."idiot..how did you lose your house key in the garden?" and muttered "fool" under their breath.: The idiot replied"Your the fools, I didn't lose my key in the garden, I lost it in the house".The villiagers broke out in loud laughter..."why then, you ARE a fool, why are you looking for your key in the garden when you lost it in the house?" Our idiot replied "because there is more LIGHT out here you morons!"

Enlightened...to be filled with light. To see.

posted September 02, 2004 07:03 PM         

I used to be in a Bible study group with a bunch of Baptists. They were all very beautiful people. Very supportive and loving of one another. Very much a small family (within a larger one of course). There were about ten of these guys. We met every week and had tea and discussed the Bible. I also had private sessions with one of them on Sundays after church. I loved these days. The sun was out. We discussed many things. But anyhow, one day I heard that quote from Jesus regarding him giving to you before you pray (I can't remember where it is, but I'll try to find it). So I exclaimed "That's awesome, Jesus gives before we pray? Then why pray? That is POWER! To KNOW what we want and desire before we do! To give to US before we even understand what we wanted! Jesus is AWESOME!" One person remarked "That was like a meteor coming out of nowhere". I stopped attending the group not long after that. Not because of this remark, but because every time we discussed the Bible, my thoughts were always different. It's like they never understood, or I didn't. In any case life moves on, and I moved away anyhow. I missed them all as they were beautiful, but I guess it felt as if I didn't learn anything through those meetings, or maybe the fact I couldn't really discuss them. One day they were going through different religions, and I asked if I could give a "lecture" on Astrology/Numerology and how it fit into the grand scheme of things. I was denied. I didn't really care. I realised they were happy knowing what they knew, and discussing them. Who was I to disturb their peace?

That's a cool story orchidspirit. It reminds me of something. Types of stories used in Eastern religions to understand truths. I think it begins with a "K"?

posted September 03, 2004 08:59 AM         

silly baptists

"do you watch your children every second of the day?"
If we continue with the parent analogy, we could say that much more attention is given to an infant child than is given to an adult child. I don't have children yet, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't infant children require pretty much constant supervision? I will most willingly classify myself in the "spiritual infant" class and sincerly hope that I am being very closely supervised. Anyone wish to classify themselves differently?

posted September 03, 2004 03:18 PM         

Keep weighing them. When the number goes down, they've been enlightened.

Excuse me, won't you? I think I need to make a little trip to the bathroom right now for some enlightenment...

What?!? I always take a good spiritual book in there with me!

posted September 03, 2004 07:49 PM         

Dean, I`m still pondering on your quote

quote:

---

Enlightenment is understanding that you have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you are being right now

---

I can`t find the way it applys my life.

No where to go: My eye is on the prize and moving me towards the Essence of our Creator and my Divine birthright. I am "going" somewhere

Nothing to do: Service to others is service to God/sess, so I pray I`m always "doing"

Nobody I have to be: I am "being" a reflection of humanity and the Divine. My state of "being" is to seek the truths.

For me, it means if one has purpose, one has "something"

This reflects my life and I realize my answer won`t be an answer for all. All I can do is keep seeking.

Orchid, I love the Beloved Idiot story. Thank you

posted September 03, 2004 08:24 PM         

I was wondering about this because a lot of people strive for enlightenment and man I'm just trying to get through the day without being diminished and without diminishing others, and that's a balancing act, let me tell you. Everytime I try to strive for it, I learn something else that makes me feel like my tower is falling and that is was made out of sand or something anyway.

Anyway, I like your quote dean because that sounds like a very desirable thing to do or at least try. It also sounds like it takes a lot of faith. Either in the self or in God.

posted September 04, 2004 07:48 PM         

We brand words about sometimes without really thinking about their true meaning. People 'love' everything, from cartoon characters, to ice cream, to fashion.

Enlightenment can mean many different things, to many different people.

When you stand beside a true 'Enlightened'
Master, I can promise you, that you will KNOW
the difference. There will be no doubt at all. NONE.

It happened to me. When it did, my understanding of my own sense of enlightenment probably came to the level of his big toe and certainly no higher.

It was a big shock to me, of course it was. He didn't make me feel bad, it came from my own understanding of what I felt like in his presence. I kind of understood my own level.

The love was beyond human description. I can find no words that will ever come even remotely close. I didn't even have to speak. He anticipated everything that came out my mouth. He smiled so sweetly at me when I apologised about what a babbling idiot I was. He explained that it was the emotions communicating.

I suppose you could say I was enlightened, about my own enlightenment, on that particular day.

Gia

posted September 04, 2004 09:53 PM         

Well, all enightenment is truly Self enlightenment because we remember that we are not our Little "self" but rather a divine spark of the Greter SELF; or That Which Was, That Which IS and That Which Shall Be.. which truly is the meaning of the Hebrew 4 lettered name of God, usually transliterated as : IHVH or YHVH or even JHVH and often rendered into English as Yahweh or Jehovah.

Like anything else, I think we are here to experience ourselves as being What We Are... that may be musical, artistic, Loving, Healing, Forgiving, etc., etc. and so forth. It may also be that thing we call Enightened.

To know ourselves as What We ARE.. we must have something to compare or contrast it to... That Which We Are NOT. This is the Law of Polarity.

We cannot know ourselves as Tall unless we can compare ourselves to someone that is Short. We cannot know ourselves as Happy, unless we also know what it is to be Sad.

So also we may know ourselves as Enlightened... by viewing, or experiencing that which is Un-Enlightened! (Lord and Lady know we can experience that on a daily basis here)

Make any sense?

Blessed Be...
A

posted September 05, 2004 08:04 PM         

And yes, it was koan, thank you.

Juni, thanks for being patient, sometimes I'm not very clear, but all in "good" time:

quote:

---

No where to go: My eye is on the prize and moving me towards the Essence of our Creator and my Divine birthright. I am "going" somewhere

---

Now God made a quip about the nowhere word. He said Heaven is everywhere and nowhere, however, nowhere = now here. You have "now here" to go. You are there. I used to think when I was younger that life is relative in the sense that the shop comes to me as I walk towards it. If I don't look at my feet, then the shop is moving towards me. This world is a projection in my mind as things move around, my mind doesn't move. Maybe my feet do relative to the shop, but relative to my mind the shop moves. My point is you are exactly where you should be. God wouldn't have it any other way. However, trying to become closer to God is certainly admirable.

quote:

---

Nothing to do: Service to others is service to God/sess, so I pray I`m always "doing"

---

quote:

---

Nobody I have to be: I am "being" a reflection of humanity and the Divine. My state of "being" is to seek the truths.

---

OK, so the difference between Masters and Enlightenment. It seems Enlightent is the understanding while Masters carry it out. They understand what they feel and why, or even what they say and the impact of there words. They understand that life is about experience, but to transcend experience is to have more control over life. Masters can do many more things of which I'm not all that familiar, these are really just theories. It is true as Aselzion said that to understand one thing, is to have it and not have it to compare. However, Masters have the ability to understand something without necessarily experiecing both the having and not having. I think this is due to the patterns of all things. Once you truly understand your existance, may you transcend its limitations.