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Author Topic:   The Butterfly Effect
steelrose
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posted December 24, 2004 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
I recently watched “The Butterfly Effect” and the film got me thinking...

The last passage shocked me deeply... After many failed intents to put everything right for the girl he has loved all his life, swithching from one lifetime to another, he gets to an option where theyīve never known each other... He drove her apart from him to save her from a paedophile father, a brother who will turn a sadistic murderer, a suicide, a life of prostitution and drugs... He then crosses her on the street... They donīt know each other in this lifetime but there is an instant connection of souls, of acknowledgenent... But it goes away, and even when he loves her so much, he chooses to pass by... Still to save her from the possibility of messing her life again as he did before... He renounces to her, he does a conscient sacrifice...

Maybe thatīs what other important people in our lives do with us... When you know they love you so much and even so, they choose to leave you alone... You never understand why they never tried, why they made that decision without giving you a chance... When you can feel that is a sacrifice...

Maybe they know something... Maybe they remember something... Maybe they are trying to protect you from what may happen if you reunite... Maybe itīs an instict. Maybe they love you even more by letting you go.

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maya-v
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posted December 24, 2004 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maya-v     Edit/Delete Message
Oh steelrose ... you made me cry with that post. Thank youfor such a beautiful post in this season of tears.

Love and hugs

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Yin
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posted December 24, 2004 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Maybe so, steelrose, but maybe not. Have you read Karma Diagnostics? Maybe you can find an answer to your question there.
http://istina.rin.ru/eng/para/text/637.html

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steelrose
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posted December 24, 2004 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Maya-v... Have you watched the film? Do you think what Iīm saying could make sense?

Several years ago I lost someone very important for me. He chose to let me go. I still believe he was my Twin Soul or at least someone very close to that... Iīve met him before, in another life/lives I donīt remember... He felt that special bond as well... But he chose to let me go before even trying. He used to say that would be better for us, especially for me. I never understood why. That film made me think and I wanted to share with all of you...

Yin, Iīve read that article... Would that mean that behaving that way just offers a momentary improvement? That doesnīt solve the problem, the karma is still there, is that what you mean?

Actually, thatīs what the main character in the film tried to do, quick fixes that were no more than botches and will lead to even worse consequences... Only by renouncing to her, he ensures she is OK, at least temporarily... We donīt know that because thatīs the end of the film...

I agree that the only definite solution is love. But isnīt it loving what he does when he renounces to her to try and save her?

Karma can be cancelled when you learn the lesson... But one thing is how karma works and another if we understand it... Maybe that conscient letting go and renouncing will only lead to new encounters when your karma tries to push you together... But maybe that sacrifice is part of the lesson.

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Yin
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posted December 25, 2004 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Steelrose, I meant have you read his(Lazarev) books Karma Diagnostics - there are at least 4 of them as far as I know.
They all talk about karma and how it is connected to previous lives, and how the author can actually see where the bad/good karma is coming from, and how to fix the problem. It's much more than temporary patching, it's an involved process of energy work including prayer, meditation and so on. Not to mention that sometimes you are supposed to go all the way through the tough lessons and there's nothing that can save you from your misery.

The Butterfly effect only suggests that karma cannot be fixed, but at times I get annoyed by Hollywood's attempts to talk about something important while they are trying to entertain you.

Merry Christmas!

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Randall
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posted December 26, 2004 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
That was a great movie!

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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steelrose
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posted December 26, 2004 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Randall! Hi Yin!

I know what you mean, Yin, about how Hollywood treats important issues in a frivolous way just to make money out of the masses... But I suppose thereīs always some light hidden everywhere... Maybe the message I got from that film was completely different to what the vast majority got... You have to be a bit trained in these matters to see beyond the apparent fatalist message... I think his sacrifice made a difference, that it was part of the lesson... and also that they would meet again...

No, Yin, unfortunately I havenīt read any of those books... And Iīm really interested... Can you recommend one of the four to start with? I havenīt read much on this subject... So, which is the simplest and more practical of all? Which one did you like the most? Any other book you would recommend?

Thanks!!!

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Yin
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posted December 26, 2004 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Steelrose, as a member of the vast majority, which I'm afraid you count me to be a part, I'm going to refrain from making any deep or profound statements.
You saw something in the movie which apparently was very close to your heart.
You lost someone and you believe there is a reason for that. There probably is one. I lost someone and I wanted to believe there was a reason for that. I still cry in my sleep, dreaming of dying just to be with him.
I know one thing - if you want to find an answer, a reason, an explanation, you will - maybe in a movie or in a book . You can also find it at a mall, in a conversation at the grocery store or while doing number 2 in the bathroom.
I don't mean to be rude. Just realistic.


Lasarev's books are all in the same series. Start with Karma Diagnostics 1

Steelrose, good luck to you. You are blessed when you find peace within.

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steelrose
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posted December 27, 2004 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
I didnīt mean you were part of the vast majority... When I say the masses, I refer to people who are not familiarised with these subjects, such as karma, astrology or other metaphysical studies... When you are a little bit in touch with them, more or less entunned or aware of them, like you, me or any other person in this forum, when you do not dismiss them as mickey-mouse pseudo-sciences for the credulous and gullible ignorants you are more likely to find hidden meanings...

I donīt mean all of us are going to undertsand things in the same way... Itīs like paintings, they tell different stories to different people... But they are more likely to “talk” to the trainned eye... Itīs like looking through a prism... But if you wear dark glasses, you wonīt see a thing...

I saw what I explained in this film. It came as a sparkle, as a deep realisation in an instant of a second... Like a tiny piece of light... I wasnīt looking for it, it came to me... I though I understood or at least accepted my loss... But this new hint felt more natural to me... Maybe I saw that because of my personal experience, maybe I missed other things people see... I just wanted to share it with you all...

Thanks for the recommendation about the books... I will try to get them

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sesame
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posted December 28, 2004 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I loved that movie. However, it goes a bit deeper, and maybe shallower. On the DVD there are alternate endings - they kept the one on I guess that they thought would appeal more to people, or even tested the endings as they do, but on the DVD you get to see how thing's could be different. The one I saw ended with Ashton clutching his umbilical chord to prevent living completely. Remember in the movie that his mum already had miscarraiges? Also, there was references all the way through that he shouldn't be alive - the spitual reader etc. So he finally realised he had to prevent life completely which is a really nasty thing to comprehend really - that you're not supposed to be living. But it also explains other things like SIDS etc. I mean, they're just theories, but in the end, life is hey?

I met someone I thought was my soul mate, and did everything in my power to destroy the relationship. I still wonder what might've been, but like I said, life is. Live now. That's all taht really matters.

Heaps of Love,
BTW, Welcome Maya-v! ,
Dean.

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steelrose
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posted December 29, 2004 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
WOW, thatīs amazing, Dean... I didnīt know there were alternative endings... Thatīs even deeper in a way as the film gives YOU also the power to change the end... But I also consider it dangerous, because nobody knows ultimatelly who should live or not, not even yourself...

I sometimes considered the posibility of being alive when I shouldnīt be... Not because I harm others with my existence, I get out of my way to help and give my light to people... When I was born, I was very close to die, then I almost became mentally retarded, doctors thought I could be blind or deaf... But I survived... And Iīm perfectly normal, pretty bright to be honest... But I donīt feel Iīm living a life for me, my life is great but doesnīt feel mine...

In moments of crisis, I considered the posibility of not being supposed to be alive... What if I wasnīt meant to be here? What if I should have died after birth?
Even then, I never considered to end it. If it was an accident or a miracle, there must be a reason for it... Iīm grateful of having this chance, so I will live even when sometimes I donīt want to.

May I ask you a question? Iīm curious... Why did you fight so fiercely to destroy your relationship with who you thought was your Soul Mate? Iīve been the other party and I wonder why someone would do that...

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sesame
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posted December 29, 2004 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Well, at the time I didn't really mean to, but I think I attracted all these events that blew us apart. The issue came down to her being a Libran, and me a Gemini too - we can create cyclones. Pretty much effortlessly. She had a couple of issues which didn't bother me, but there was like this shell that I could never dream to penetrate. Also, I never understood what she thought about anything, but I also didn't give it much time. I dreamt of her before I met her, and the night I met her, I knew I would meet my soul mate. Of course, when I actually did see her, I didn't recognize her, until the next morning. The whole experience was ethereal, and obviously not meant to happen. I think there's a loop hole with soul mates. It goes like this:

"Once soul mates meet, they meet every life afterwards"

The loop hole is that they might not be comatible or spend their lives together, but they still meet, and I guess one of them understands, even if the other might not. I told this libran she was my soul mate which ruined it even more, as I've since learnt that Librans don't really buy into this - I mean, they need a multi talented person to sweep them away, not someone to just bump into them and pronounce "hey soulmate, what's up".

Anyhow, it just wasn't meant to be. Could also be laziness. I read our relationship would've been very productive, but maybe I didn't want to be productive this life. Who knows. Here's some other examples of people I've met who met their soul mates:

A male friend who was so emotional around this girl that he couldn't sustain the relationship. I think he thought it was too powerful or something.

Another woman I met went a bit insane from a soul mate. Not sure if he was a soul mate, but she just couldn't let him go, even though he seemed to treat her very cruelly. She was a Libran actually, but I'm not sure if she thought he was her soul mate.

I'm pretty sure my sister's married to her soul mate. They look so similar and are extremely compatible.

Now for the confusing part. My wife and I could be considered soul mates, but I met her when I was getting over my last one, so she knows everything about it. So I can't exactly use the term "soulmate" with her, but I think our relationship could be somewhat better for it. It's a lot lighter, with lots of love and laughter. I think my point is that soul mates can be a lot of work. I think they are very powerful relationships that should not be taken lightly.

Anyhow, as to the Butterfly effect, have you considered that all lives do happen? It's not necessarilly a choice of which life will happen, but could also portay examples of how one life can affect so many things depending on choices. At the end of the day, the events that transpire could be seen as destiny for that life regardless of choice, because all choices are taken simultaneously (no time). I mean, "there are more posiblities in Heaven and Hell, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies" (Shakespeare, though might not be an exact quote - just off my head).

What were your experiences (if you want outside opinions or whatever)?
Dean.

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steelrose
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posted December 30, 2004 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Dean,

If you are interested in my experience, you have a summary in: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001113-2.html

I gave more details also in: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/001132-2.html

Maybe you are right and it was too intense for him to cope... But I donīt think heīs scared of intensity, heīs a Scorp. The saddest thing of all was not being allowed to try... He awoke me to let me die alone... He may well be very happy now but I havenīt been trully happy since then. I had good times in my life obviously... but nothing close to the ecstasy of being loved by him... I had another relationship but it didnīt compare...

I never belonged anywhere... He didnīt either... But we did together... It was so easy, so magical... Analysing our comparison chart, there are cojunctions, trines and sextiles all over the place... He doesnīt believe in all this but still used to talk about a strange connection between us, a distinct link with me that he never found with anyone else... That silver-blue cord...

Iīve met loads of people in my life, even abroad... I have many friends... My strong Saggitarian influences make me very expansive and easy-going... Iīm sure many of my close relations have travelled with me before... I call them Soul Mates because they are my spiritual family... such as my two best friends, my first love, my dad, my brother... But he was special above all... I think he was my Twin...

It wasnīt a lot of work... It flew easily... It may have been a lot of responsibility, but not a lot of work... There was a kind of magnetism pulling us together, making things work with no effort...

Iīm glad you are so happy with your wife... But Iīm afraid I wouldnīt want something lighter... Iīd consider it not to die from loneliness... But Iīd never be as happy as I was, as happy as I could have been... And I donīt think I could never stand his presence like this... I think Iīve accepted his loss, somehow, but I donīt think I will ever understand why someone would sacrifice something so special for... a responsibility-free life? I must feel really empty.

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sesame
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posted December 30, 2004 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I remember that thread (with AquarianGirl). I thought you seemed to have it sorted. I know it seems crap to love life knowing it's not prefect, and even worse to experience how it could be, but eh, that's life. My dad always said it wasn't fair. Linda is awesome though in teaching the magic that's possible and how to deal with the world. I just wish I read most of that stuff before I ruined everything, but life does go on. Believe me, you'll meet someone. I was the same, thinking that no one will ever come close or give me the magic, but you realise that their are more immportant things. If he's gone, then he's gone. You're alive now with infinite possibilities for the future, so embrace this. Life is awesome no matter what happens. WE ARE ALIVE!

Yeah, it's lame to say that knowing it could be better, but so be it. ALIVE = VAIL, VALE, VEIL, or VEAL. Hm,
Dean.

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purple_scorp
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posted January 02, 2005 05:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for purple_scorp     Edit/Delete Message
Hey steelrose,

We meet again (to discuss soul mates).

There are plenty of movies (like The Butterfly Effect) that stir me at a deep soul level. Then, I have ANALYSE and DETAIL in my name, so I am always looking for a message in everything. I can be thinking deeply about some movies for days after, whereas other people just walk out of the cinema and move on.

I was so moved when I saw The Butterfly Effect, that I also posted a thread on it (on another forum). So I can totally understand how you are feeling. Unfortunately, I can't post you the link, because it was a in a subscriber section. I think you would have enjoyed the conversation there.

Dean spoke briefly of the alternative endings on the dvd and I wanted to elaborate further. Do you remember in the movie, the father had a mental disorder and was institutionalised? Towards the end of the movie, we learn from the mother that the father used to speak of a similar ability to go back in time(but everybody just thought he was crazy). We also learn that the disorder is genetic and more like to be passed on through male genes.

In the director's cut, the main character kills himself in utero (this means he chose to never be born and therefore never has to deal with this mental disorder). And, we know that the mother has had several miscarriages. So, each of her babies may have had the same disorder, lived similar lives, and then repeated the same death process, deciding that not being born was a better option. I just wanted to spell that inference out, just in case you missed it.

Now, back to your soul mate problem. I still feel a little shell-shocked about my own experience. It was only three months ago that I met him, but somehow, it feels like a lifetime ago. I think I probably posted this in my other thread but......soul mates don't have to be forever. If your agreement was to check up on each other in this lifetime, it fits in with your life's story now. The job is done, the destiny has been fulfilled.

I can't remember if I told you about this book, "Hot Chocolate for the Lover's Soul" written by Arielle Ford. ISBN 0-00-711642-X

steelrose, the book is a collection of stories written by ordinary people, about finding (and sometimes losing) their soul mates. I really think you would get something out of that book.

Dean, I am wondering if the relationship with your wife is the beginning of a new soul mate relationship? We always think of connections being something from the past but, they can also be for the future.

purple_scorp

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steelrose
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posted January 02, 2005 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
Hi, Purple_scorp, itīs nice to meet you again! We seem to be attracted to the same kind of threads,huh? I like scorps, so Iīm glad to keep finding you around! Thanks very much, that gave me a different insight of the film...

I will try to get hold of the book ... As I live in Spain, I will have to try and get it through the Internet.

What do you mean “soul mates donīt have to be forever”? Check up on each other? We just made each other unhappy... Do you mean I may be here to lead an empty life without true love? Thatīs pretty sad... So if the job is done, what am I suppose to do now? I always thought with a strange kind of certainty Iīm about to find the one in the near future... That palm reader said “the one you always wanted”... I wonīt be able to live this life if this is it...

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26taurus
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posted January 02, 2005 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Hi,

I havent read this whole thread just wanted to say, I loved that movie. And steelrose, here is a great article I found on soulmates. I dont know your whole story but, I do believe we all have many soulmates. Hope you enjoy the article. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/001239.html

26

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purple_scorp
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posted January 02, 2005 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for purple_scorp     Edit/Delete Message
Hey steelrose,

maybe we are at a similar point on our paths in this life??? Maybe this is the effect of having met a soul mate and not having things work out???

Hmm, there are many theories on what I wrote, I'll outline a couple here.

When I said, “soul mates donīt have to be forever” I meant that sometimes in an incarnation, you develop a strong bond with someone - a soul mate (could be a friend, a lover, a family member, a work colleague etc). You love this person (not necessarily romantically) and your souls agree to meet in a future incarnation (again not necessarily romantically). Maybe it's just to check up on the other soul, to see that each other is doing okay. If that's the agreement that you made with your soul mate, then the encounter in this incarnation need not be a lengthy, or meaningful one, and the obligation is filled. Like for instance, it could be as simple as somebody serving you at a supermarket checkout. They see you are doing okay and their job is done. There is no need to have a relationship/friendship with you in this incarnation.

I've also read, that before coming into an incarnation, souls agree to perform certain roles in your life, to help you learn your lessons and reach enlightenment. Meeting a soul mate is very powerful and when things don't work out, often there is a lesson which we don't automatically see until later.

Have you been able to determine the lesson of your encounter with this soul mate?

As 26T pointed out, there are many different levels of soul mates. Here's another article. Apologies if I've already posted this link in another thread:
http://groups.msn.com/Masternumbergathering/soulmates1.msnw

Sometimes, things are not what they seem. Here is a post from the Masternumbergatherings forum where a member tells of meeting her twin flame, only to lose him and then to find love with his brother:
click here

steelrose, I can't say for certain if you will find a true love. Sometimes I wonder if I'm meant to be alone. Well, obviously I'm supposed to be alone right now, otherwise I believe I would be in a relationship with another. You can be alone, without being lonely. I have chosen to celebrate my solitude - it has given me the opportunity to find, develop, and nurture my spirituality.

Have faith, my friend. I'm sure the Universe has some lovely plans in store for us .

with love
purple_scorp

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steelrose
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posted January 03, 2005 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks 26T... I did look at that thread when it was around

Purple_scorp, that article is very good... Level 1 is what I always called Twin Soul... I always understood there was only one, your other half... Then, level 2 is what I call Soul Mates... I always thought they were many, the ones you were born with, your spiritual family, your brothers and sisters... And then Level 3, what I called angels or gurus, more enlightened souls that come to help the rest of us...

Maybe I will understand later... Maybe this man I talk about is only Level 2... And my Level 1 is to come... as the palm reader said... Weīll see...

That second article was powerful... Thatīs the kind of thing I meant when I started this thread, a soul who sacrifices itself for your best interest... because he/she knows something... In the case of this woman, to give way to and make the reunion possible with her Twin Soul... Beautiful...

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sesame
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posted January 04, 2005 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
"There are more things in Heaven and Hell, Horatio, than you have dreamt of in your philosophies" (I think Shakspear)

Firstly, Purple_scorp, I hope you don't mind, but I edited your post - the click me represents the massive url you pasted in. This way the thread isn't so wide. I just thought it might be easier.

As for Karma and Soul mates etc. I just can't help but think every single theory is completely possible (except all the weird ones). I mean, how do you truly prove this stuff? It's impossible. I used to believe I could live peascefully and full in love with any girl out there. But then I realised they might not understand me. And then I relearnt that I am not a one-size-fits-all chemical. In the grand scheme of things, I am more compatible with my wife than anyone else out there. Even though it is "relatively light". Sometimes you can drown if you swim to deeply. You should appreciate the sun and trees occasionally, don't always chase the see-through sea horses. Yeah, they're beautiful, but so is life in its simplest form. Learning and experiencing is underrated. Go out and fall in love. If you fall back out, then fall again. I have no doubt that you could meet very magical relationships, but what of the ones that don't "appear" magical. Given time, magic could be found to manifest in every breath. In fact, I believe every single breath is a fated thing. Why must one event be fated? My point is that all breaths lead to the last regardless of events. Of course, that last one (as with all events) is completely optional.

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

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Lilith1075
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posted January 04, 2005 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lilith1075     Edit/Delete Message
Amazing movie, and I prefer the alternative ending. Sad, reflective, introspective, yet calming. The character (I forget his name) showed absolute selflessness, which makes me feel as if there is a huge weight on my chest (not of guilt); plus Ashton Kutcher proved that he can handle dramatic roles. He was amazing, and the script and direction was just... phenomenal. It's one of my favorite movies I think, at least in this genre. A similar movie which I just saw this past week is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Not exactly the same, I know, but I was reminded of The Butterfly Effect. It gave me the same kind of feeling and I was drawn to it in the same way; I felt a similar connection. The script for ESofSM was better. So... I thought I'd chime in with that connection.

-----
~*Pisces/ Leo asc/ Virgo moon*~

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You raise me up... to more than I can be.

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purple_scorp
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posted January 05, 2005 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for purple_scorp     Edit/Delete Message
Hi steelrose, I categorise the three levels the same way you do .

Dean, that’s cool regarding the editing. That’s what moderators are there for. One day, I’ll get savvy with html language and do a better job myself. Actually, there’s another forum that I frequent that allows you to click quote and see the code behind the post. Makes it easier.

Dean, I understand your point regarding the beautiful seahorses too. Can you just go out and fall in love? I don’t know. If it is so simple, why haven’t we done it yet? I’ve recently been giving a lot of thought to this. Can you grow to love somebody, or do you need the initial spark? I’ve always thought I needed the spark, yet, my relationship track record on sparks - it always fizzles.

Hi Lilith, I didn’t even realise the actor was the guy from “That 70’s show”, until it was pointed out to me. Somebody asked me about his transition from comedy to straight acting. I thought he was brilliant. Must check out that other movie.

purple_scorp

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Tigerlily
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posted January 05, 2005 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tigerlily     Edit/Delete Message
Keep in mind: The Universe is perfect and everything in your life is unfolding perfectly, in the right time and sequence.

You'll find your true love when you stop seeking it.If your eyes are only on the quest for your Twin Soul you might miss out on a beautiful and magical love that could be awaiting you right now.

If you have a strong Neptune influence in your chart you might cling to an idealized vision of love that is unrealistic but nevertheless compelling. For those who will accept nothing less than your Twin Soul, check your charts and see how Neptune factors in. Once you open yourself up to true love and let go of unrealistic expectations you'll find something better than you've even imagined.

I had given up completely and had resigned myself to being alone forever when I met my soulmate. Deep down I always knew it would happen that way but it was hard to stop seeking that idea of perfect love. I was alone my whole life but I'd always had this strong belief that I'd have a love that was truly special and rare. Hard years went by. Life forced me to give up on love completely by that point. I "knew" then that I was meant to be alone in this incarnation and I reconciled myself to that and began living life with no expectations. And it was then that my soulmate and I reunited. When I let go of the dream, that's when the dream came to me and became a reality. And the love I have now is bigger and better than I'd ever dreamed (and I had big dreams!).

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sesame
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Posts: 660
From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted January 05, 2005 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Purple_scorp, you can click edit on any post to read the underlying code, even though you need to be moderator or above (or the initial poster) to edit it. It's funny that the urls need the code [ url ] (without spaces) but if you don't do it that way, the page does it for you, but then puts the entire url in the tags. Make sense?

quote:
Dean, I understand your point regarding the beautiful seahorses too. Can you just go out and fall in love?

As I've said before, seahorse are also hidden in chaos theory. Well, I don't know either, sometimes it seems like you can (go out and find love). I always think I won't, and there've been times when I didn't, but I always question the underlying meaning too. Like if I meet some goths that take me back to their place and talk about handcuffing me to chairs, then my lesson is the world is a vast place with many possibilities etc. Also, life can be interesting.

quote:
I don’t know. If it is so simple, why haven’t we done it yet?

Well, that's a question you need to ask yourself. What are you truly attracting? What are you desiring to experience? What are your expectations? If we are all one, then we all have many things in common. We are unique and hence have many different aspects, but in the end, we are human. Also, we are affected by our surroundings, so if you meet someone who you intially think is OK, and you learn that they have a shell and are exiting this, then you may grow a bond, which may strengthen. Then (and here's my point) you may change. That person changes you as you change them. This change could make you closer or more distant depending on your choices going through the change. If you resist, then it could still strengthen so long as the other person sees this resistance and changes to adapt to that. You get me?

quote:
I've recently been giving a lot of thought to this. Can you grow to love somebody, or do you need the initial spark?

Well, I personally think the main factor is communication (I'm a gemini). If you can talk and feel completely relaxed, then the worlds your oyster. But then, they may have traits that completely annoy you, and here, you also have to communicate. They'll stop. Sparks are completely subjective when you think about it. Many factors go into them. Synchronisities, astrology, emotions, mental states of mind, etc. In the end, it may not be as serious as it seemed, but you may not see this through the initial event. You may always think it was magical. Love is blind and love is all, so all is blind

quote:
I’ve always thought I needed the spark, yet, my relationship track record on sparks - it always fizzles.

Yes. There needs to be more, and maybe less. Less expectation? More flow? Best of luck to you,
Dean.

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steelrose
Knowflake

Posts: 119
From: Spain
Registered: Sep 2004

posted January 05, 2005 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
I must agree with you, Purple_scorp... I donīt think you can have just a magical relationship just with anyone just by opening up... Of course you can grow love for everybody, but that is not comparable with the right kind of spark...

Iīm talking from experience... Iīve been there... And no matter how much I tried to make it work, it never did. It wasnīt meant to be...

I initially rejected him... The chase lasted 2 years... I was too idealistic and I was getting over the loss of who I believe is my Twin Flame... He didnīt fit any of the requisites to start with... But then I thought of the sea horses and the sun and trees... And I thought I could give him a chance... I thought I could learn to love him... And I opened my heart... And I did get to love him, but it was never the same...

Things started to go wrong after a couple of months... We never had the same goals, interests, values... Everything was a misunderstanding... I tried desperately to communicate with him, to find common ground... It was painfully impossible... Our priorities were so different... We loved opposites. The relationship lasted for almost a year and a half and was the most difficult thing I have ever dealt with... My life force and direction was directly opposite to his... Trying to grow and develop we stepped on each otherīs happiness and development.

He just hurt me without wanting to. Iīm sure I did the same... We did grow together, changed together, to see the otherīs world and realise we coudnīt share the same life, learn that we couldnīt survive like that and communication was fruitless.We were like a bird and a fish... I learnt I wouldnt have anyone like him again.

He was clearly a mistake. He wasnīt even close to what I need or want and I canīt give him nothing he needs or wants. I did love him, donīt misinterpret me... I still do... But just opening up just didnīt work. He was never mine... The same as I was never his...

Funnily enough our comparison chart is full of oppositions and squares... I felt that my love could change it, that weīll find a way if we fought together... That was a waste of time... I suffered for so long, I sacrified so much trying to adapt... But nothing worked. It broke my heart leaving him behind, especially because he asked me to. But now we are apart, I feel so relieved. Being together was hell.

We are trying hard to remind friends... Physical distance helps (we now live in different countries), we have set strict rules in which subjects we can talk about to not hurt each other unintentionally and we only chat once or twice a week... I hope we will always have each other... But this is the only way.

Tigerlily, you are soooo right... Neptune is very powerful in my chart... Itīs in its own house (12th) and in conjunction with the Ascendant... And Iīm at that giving up point you describe... But deep in my heart I know there is someone waiting for me around the corner...

But as I said, now even more than before, I believe thereīs no point in trying to adapt. If itīs not meant for you, it wonīt work...

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