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Author
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Topic: distinguish-SOUL & SPIRIT?
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aqua
Knowflake Posts: 1085
From: dreamland
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted May 11, 2005 04:42 AM
 
i have looked for it in but have'nt got the answer,any suggestions?
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beebuddy
Knowflake Posts: 393
From: illinois
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted May 11, 2005 05:00 AM
some say that the physical body is none other than spirit. it could be said then, that there is no such thing as "transcendence" of the physical because the physical is none other than the spiritual. the only thing keeping one from "realizing" this would be furious mental activity that ceases only in deep sleep.IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 1186
From: North Carolina
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted May 11, 2005 07:30 AM
In Star Signs and in Gooberz, Linda gives a very simple explanation of the differences between the Soul and Spirit. There is the physical body and there is the Spirit body - the lower self and the Higher Self. In order for communication to occur between one and the other certain vehicles are necessary, thus we have the Mind and the Soul. Your Mind is the part of you that thinks, analyzes, draws conclusions, etc. and operates through your physical brain. Your Soul is the part of you that feels, intuits, retains memories (karmic and otherwise) etc. and operates through the pineal gland ... though some suggest the energy is more heart centered. You can see them as bridges between your Spirit and your physical body ... sort of as a relay station where things get filtered, translated, and retransmitted in order for you to understand them better. Understanding how the energy flows both up towards the Spirit and down towards the body is essential ... as above, so below? Anyway, that's just my interpretation of the Soul/Spirit differences and frankly, I think it's very important to distinguish between the two. It gets so confusing (for me at least) when everyone refers to their Mind, Soul, or Spirit as their "soul". I also think this lack of differentiation between the terms can be connected to alot of the seeming differences and misunderstandings between various religious interpretations of life and the "after" life. If you haven't read Star Signs or Gooberz, it might be a good idea to do so now since she explains it very well. It might also be worth looking into some of Rudolf Steiner's works because he also distinguishes between the Mind, Soul, and Spirit body although he is a bit of a tough read at times.  ------------------
"This above all:
to thine own self be true,
And it must follow,
as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false
to any man." - Shakespeare IP: Logged |
beebuddy
Knowflake Posts: 393
From: illinois
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted May 11, 2005 07:37 AM
ahhhh,
thanks eleanore, i thought there might be something i was missing context-wise. i havent read too much of Linda's work (nothing about this subject from her), so the "bee" post is slightly out of context.  and you are right on point that there should be agreed on definitions when using words like "mind" etc... it can be suuuper confusing (in a conversation) when the words are understood differently. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 11, 2005 08:39 AM
I will not add to Eleanore's information on this matter. I do however want to mention a manuscript my husband and I are working on for a book on this and more specifically about, where do we go when we die, what happens from the point of view of the incarnates and the discarnates, and also the person going through the process. Much of it has come from the discarnate friends we work with, and play with. They are our family so to speak. We have been on many death watches, helping people leave this physical life without fear and helping their families through this natural process also. The book will also deal with what happens once one has passed through from physical life to discarnate life. It will explain, without mystery, without the often typical, but not very informative; "and then a miracle happens". The stages during the dying process and then through to discarnate living, and reincarnating, ie; the process from discarnate life to rebirth. We explain the variables, the things that trauma, and the actions/emotions, of the living(incarnates) have on the dying or now discarnate's release into freedom. We explain hauntings, and other types of so called ghostly behavior. There is also an interesting section on why one should be careful about "sending" someone to the "light". That involved alot of very strange psychic research and was actually somewhat dangerous. I had a temperature drop to 90 degrees and went into convulsions during part of that phase of research. We explain by way of our own experiences and the stories told to us by thousands of discarnates, what is an aura, what it does, when do we aquire one, when do we have one and need to have one, and where/when, we are existing within one, and more. We explain the body and soul connection. We explain what is a spirit, and it is not what people have been led to think of it as. We explain anomalies that occur, and much more. We have interviewed hundreds of incarnates, asked them what questions they have and thousands of discarnates, with access to billions of others and their information on these issues. This has taken many years of extremely serious research and usually hours of daily, active communication, with incarnates and discarnates to compile what is to date, the makings of a very very long book. I would love to talk more about it here, but I can not. We have had several incarnate people read the manuscript, and ALL say it makes sense and that they are so happy that someone is finally writing a book that answers their questions...without the hype and mysticism and the standard, "and then a miracle happens!". They say, "hurry up you guys! The world needs this! I've never seen anything like this!". We are in the process of finishing this first book on this matter. There will be more in a later book, that goes into more detail with personal stories from many individuals, and rescues and so forth. If anyone is interested I'll let them know when it is published. Thanks for hearing me out. I will answer any questions I can that will not give away too much of the content of the book.     
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iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 912
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted May 11, 2005 02:11 PM
Interesting fayte. Let me know when the books out. I have a question:
Why do people chant divine names when a person is on death bed? Does it help at all in the after journey?
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 11, 2005 03:10 PM
iAmThat! Hello! OK... You asked: "Why do people chant divine names when a person is on death bed?" I split your questions, to better clarify my answer. People chant/pray under these circumstances usually because of what they have been taught, or believe in, based on their religion(s). It is, from what I have observed, a ritual that serves mainly, to make the grieving ones feel that they have some control over the inevitable demise, of the one they chant over. It can also be of comfort to the person who is dying, "if that is also their belief structure", and "they have accepted", their own leaving the body. As a general rule, this usually causes no harm, and can in fact, bring much comfort, and a sense of doing something meaningful themselves, and a last gift to the person who is experiencing the process. This leads me to the next part of your question:
"Does it help at all in the after journey?" As much as people would like to believe it helps, it only helps in respect to the departed one's ability to feel that people cared. This can be a calming influence in the early stages of the process. Later on into the afterlife experience, it has little meaning or effect, as the departed one is kept very busy!
The danger comes into play when the people chanting, or praying, do not want to let the person go! This can severely impede them on their journey! It can even cause them to be unable to leave this world, once they have left their physical body. It is a very sad and disturbing thing to experience(and observe) when one who has left their physical body, is "chained by grief" and or "guilt"(their own, and or the living, who mourn for them)to this world.
A person "must be free to go on after physical death!" I can not stress this point enough, as this is the natural way! "Anything" that causes them to linger, or stay, is very unhealthy for them, and those they have left behind. It is best to "let them leave", to help them feel some joy in it all, as strange as that may sound! If they can leave calmly, and under loving, but peaceful and supportive conditions, they often will "choose" to visit the incarnate world and those they knew: at a later time, once they have acclimated to their new life; and before reincarnating again. So the most important thing here is that: no matter what your personal beliefs or rituals are, concerning the dying process, and your afterlife perceptions/preconceptions; "it is vital, that you freely, and with love, ALLOW THEM TO LEAVE!"
I hope I have not offended or confused you, or anyone. Thank You for the very good questions!
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amisha121877
Knowflake Posts: 331
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 11, 2005 04:39 PM
heart is to body
as
soul is to spiritIP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 11, 2005 04:51 PM
Kinda...
depends on your definition of each,IP: Logged |
SunChild
Moderator Posts: 1848
From: Oz
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted May 11, 2005 05:06 PM
Eleanore That's exactly what I was going to say but you explained it very clear and better than I! That's interesting amisha! ------------------
"The dream was always running ahead of me. To catch up, to live for a moment in unison with it, that was the miracle." Anais Nin IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 912
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted May 12, 2005 02:34 AM
Dear Fayte,
Thanks for your response. So you mean that its not important. I wonder why almost every culture has a tradition to bury or cremate dead bodies with rituals. The belief there is the soul remains with body if its not. Do you believe this? If not aren't we in contempt of tradition ? What about people who take their life (suicide) and have no mourners? Can they make it to the other side. I heard one wise man say, that suicide is only a temporary relief. The soul would reincarnate and continue the karmic experience. There is no short cut in life 
Do you agree? Regards,
IAT
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iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 912
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted May 12, 2005 03:06 AM
Spirit is uncorrupted. It consists of consciousnes. The Soul consists of energy and hence contains matter. The spirit never dies. A soul can be recycled. The spirit is parmatma (the pure essence of you that is really divine). Weather does not affect it, fire does not destroy it. It is always in the eternal NOW. The soul powers your body. It is what moves your 180 pound body with ease. Your soul is subject to karmic influences. Your spirit is not. It remains hidden until an awakening happens. In my opinion ofcourse IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 12, 2005 03:25 AM
iAmThat..
Good questions! I'm not going to go into a whole lot tonight, I am very   !!! But I will give you the quick versions and get back to you in the later morning. Ok..The rituals are as important as you feel they are, your belief structure, your societal and personal views on them dictate to what degree or not you have and or do them. Emotionally it helps the grieving and the one who is/has departed.
There is nothing wrong with doing the rituals and they can be as I will state again, of deep emotional benefit to all concerned. The tradition of burying, or cremating the dead has many reasons behind its origins. Firstly, in more primitive times, one woild not want to simply leave a body laying out in the open where the odor of it would serve to attract scavengers, and far worse...some rather nasty preditors to your cave, or other place of abode. I will explain the more spiritual aspects and history concerning such beliefs and practices later. I hope you don't mind. It is complex. Suicide...they cross over just like anyone else, for the most part. There are exceptions, but again it is mostly caused by the guilt and even anger and grief brought on by the suicide and the reasons for having done so. They will have more reviewing and learning to do before reincarnating or being able to visit the incarnates they left behind, It is not a punishment. Yes it can affect their Karmic experience. But while on the other side if they are able to come to terms with why they did it, and learn that it is not the natural way to leave ones body...since it was not a natural death from age or illness, or even an accident...but rather an actual conscious
choice they made to terminate their life themselves...they will have to try and learn something from their action, or yes, they will have to in some way deal with it in their next incarnation. Most choose to learn and understand and to grow beyond it while on the other side however. But this does delay their returning to incarnate life, but it is better to have to wait a bit longer than to deal with the mistake once back in a body. Please feel free to ask any questions you want to of me. I am happy to answer. I hope I have been lucid enough, I am falling asleep, so I'll get back to this after 8 am or so. and edit it if I made any typos or didn't say something clearly. Good night, or should I say, good morning!  IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 961
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 13, 2005 03:02 AM
Here's something I wrote once: http://www.megspace.com/science/porsche911/astrology/Spirit.html Dean. IP: Logged |
ScotScorp
Knowflake Posts: 447
From: Saint Louis, Missouri
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted May 13, 2005 02:00 PM
Thank you Fayte.m for posting some information. Looking forward to reading more.  Angela ------------------
Scorpio/Leo/Leo "All things are bound together. All things connect." Chief Seattle IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 13, 2005 02:07 PM
ScotScorp! You are most welcome!
I'm not very good at astrology yet, but I think this is me:
Scorpio
Moon in Aquarius
Venus in Scorpio
And a Capricorn ascendant.
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 13, 2005 02:40 PM
sesame! I read what you said at your webpage. Some aspects I agree with in part, some not at all. I do not want to go into that at the moment. It did appear to be that you had given the matter alot of thought. I would like to know if it was what you learned by experience, or from books and other people.
Also(and again I don't want to get into it on this thread too deeply) Did you ever notice that in Genesis there are actually Two creation stories, and the second with the restrictions is not simply a recap of
the first, the one without restrictions on the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom? The first one involves the creator, GOD, the second, a jealous and unpredictable LORD entity, who supposedly put two people in a garden/zoo, a gilded cage so to speak, while the first, God, gave the race of beings on this planet the entire planet, no restrictions. And, read very carefully, the LORD entity kicked only Adam out, not The woman/Eve. Then there is the problem of just who were these people in the Land of Nod, where Cain(who was not evil, Lord had provoked and taunted him unfairly, because he had been doing what Lord had said he was too do) where Cain found his wives, and all.
From the first creation? Ok..enough on that matter for now.
As to elf etc. in lexigrams. This might interest you...
My married and middle name anagrams to:
My Real Life.
It also lexigrams out into some neat things.
I am elf
Elf I am
Elm fairy
Fairy Elm
My flair
I am a Male elf
I am Female elf
And my full name:same, plus more:
I am a fairy
a rare elf am I
I am myself
A fairy elf am I
And a whole bunch of other neat things!
My husband's name lexigrams to:
elves are alive
I live as elves
as elves I live all lives
And a whole lot more for him too!
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amisha121877
Knowflake Posts: 331
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 13, 2005 03:39 PM
fayte.mi have this discussion with my younger sibling every now and then - your depiction of what happened seems along the lines of what we believe and answers a lot of questions if you strictly relied on the theory that there was only one creation instead of two. I mean, just the ousting of cain would raise an eyebrow on the theory there was one creation. "the first, the one without restrictions on the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom? The first one involves the creator, GOD, the second, a jealous and unpredictable LORD entity, who supposedly put two people in a garden/zoo, a gilded cage so to speak, while the first, God, gave the race of beings on this planet the entire planet, no restrictions. And, read very carefully, the LORD entity kicked only Adam out, not The woman/Eve. Then there is the problem of just who were these people in the Land of Nod, where Cain(who was not evil, Lord had provoked and taunted him unfairly, because he had been doing what Lord had said he was too do) where Cain found his wives, and all."
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 13, 2005 05:33 PM
amisha121877! Thank you for your reply! I have been considering starting a new topic here, a new thread on the contradictions, and descrepances found within the so called good book. I also want to post the things that they do not teach you in church or Sunday school, and then see what kind of replies I get. There is something(s) very just not right about those stories and skewed history. There is alot of good, but unfortunately also alot of just plain nastiness, murder, rape, bigotry, incest and more, within its pages. The scary thing is that these things were supposedly condoned and or ordered by Lord, LORD God, The Almighty, and a dozen or more rather egotistical names...names that a creator an omnipotent being would not need to use or even have a desire for.........ok....I'll stop! It is just that this matter is so infuriating to me! Thanks for letting me rant, and as I have said before, I hope I have not offended anyone!
PS. I am tired of people picking out the happy happy joy joy nicey nice bits from it, and denying or ignoring the terrible and illogical bits. Ok..bye again!
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aqua
Knowflake Posts: 1085
From: dreamland
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted May 14, 2005 11:08 PM
thanks Eleanore ,u make it quite clear , though i have'nt read gooberz (still waiting for it),i'll still look for more explanations.Sesame-that's a preety nice thing u wrote on this topic.it makes a lot of sence to me.
this is something i would like to share with all of u.i recently read in the Edgar Cyace's biography written by Thomos Surge.Edgar had explained from one of his reading about the sprit and the soul.he says that the subcontions mind or the soul mind recides with its spirit next to the heart and the logical thinking is done by the brain (the mind)
it again raises the question about the differences betweet the subcontions.what is the subcontions when we have the sprit and the subcontions when we have the soul and the spirit to guide us about what is wrong and write?or r the just synonyms? IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 961
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 15, 2005 09:26 PM
Fayte, what I wrote was mostly what I thought as common sense and what Linda seemed to talk about. I just thought I'd summarise it and have reffered to it a few times in LL when people ask what the difference is. If you like, we can debate this further over email? Or otherwise, continue discussions in LL. I don't check my email much at present, but it's sesame@linda-goodman.com . As for genisis, I haven't read it yet, but I like to think it's on my to-do list. Any thoughts you have are welcome.I have a couple of questions. Are there any "facts" regarding the spiritual world or are they all relative to the individal material entity or life aspect of the spirit concerned? What do you think of Edgar Cayce - ie has his theories been backed up or do you come across othe styles more often? Aqua, some interesting questions: quote:
what is the subcontions when we have the sprit and the subcontions when we have the soul and the spirit to guide us about what is wrong and write?or r the just synonyms?
Well, I wonder if there's a difference between the subconscious in our dreams, or when we act impulsively? Maybe this is what you're hinting at? I've kinda always thought the subconcious was like the soul responding to what it truly desires as opposed to the spirits overall plan. Hmmm, interesting questions anyway. Dean. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 15, 2005 10:00 PM
sesame/Dean!
You asked:
I have a couple of questions. Are there any "facts" regarding the spiritual world or are they all relative to the individal material entity or life aspect of the spirit concerned?Yes they are all relative, to everyone's opinions and religious belifs, but that in themselves, make it all suspect. Could you please rephrase your question?
Next; you asked:
What do you think of Edgar Cayce - ie has his theories been backed up or do you come across othe styles more often? Cayce was good, but I feel that much of what he got was filtered through his own personal belief system, and therefore suspect as to its accuracy. If it comes to you exactly as you want or expect, I myself would not trust it until I went past the "illusion".
The person whom I feel was very close,(in his therories and observations) was;
Leon Denizarth Hippolyte Rivail/alias-Allan Kardec. "The Spiritist Burr in the Spiritualist Saddle".
I feel that he still didn't "take himself out of the loop" enough either. But he did pretty good. His terminology is rather atiquated, and some of his therories not exactly right, but I feel he was the best, and no one has yet to surpass him. My sincere apoligies and regrets, but I do not feel it would proove much to banter over the meaning of a matter such as Genesis, until you yourself have read it. And read it from several different versions of the Bible, and not just the common ones. The Peshetta comes to mind and some of the non Christian creation stories, based in Egypt, Sumer, and of course the Nag Hamadi is a good source for such. Thank you for offering to discuss this by e-mail. I may consider doing so. If you are serious. IP: Logged |
aqua
Knowflake Posts: 1085
From: dreamland
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted May 16, 2005 04:50 AM
any clue sesame?IP: Logged |
amisha121877
Knowflake Posts: 331
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted May 16, 2005 10:25 AM
my best response to that, fayte.m, is people hear what they want to hear and they relate their own way to what they hear. now - sometimes, by picking up someone else's relativity to the situation (preachers, priests, evangelists, and such) sometimes it helps people to understand the message behind it, a little more clearly or directly. sometimes, it doesn't help because it's glazed over way too much. i went to church most of my youth and that would have to be the biggest issue i could see with it - glazing over reality, as a lot of us seem to do to account for our relativity. i think relativity is the key word in all of our understandings and doings, include the one to which whose image we were made from. the "great" book mentions mercy..................mercy doesn't make me think of a totally giving, henpecked, nice,nice being who is like a genie granting wishes and such. a merciful being is detached and connected whenever they see fit. p.s. genie wasn't the best analogy but..........just as i was explaining just last week to a relative, genie's weren't/aren't "nice/nice" - "what do you want" type of beings either. all in all, people hear what they want to hear and relate their own way to achieve understanding AND exclusivity. i would like to read what people think of the "great" book though - i think that's a great idea.do you have a favorite "story"? IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 1743
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted May 16, 2005 01:28 PM
amisha121877!!!!!
Favorite story, or passages/verses etc.?
And do you want to know my "favorite", nasty or good bit? Or odd bits,Etc.? Favorite is not really the right word for me, it would be more like...HHhhhhhmmmmm.....how intriguing! Hhhhhhmmmmm....fasinating! Hhhhhhmmmm....what an odd thing.....
And so forth. How about a did you know? I am thinking about creating my own web page/site and chat or forum for these topics. I'm not sure if many here at LL would want these things dicussed here. It is not New Age enough they may think. I may be wrong, a few people have been interested, but more seem not to be, that, or I upset them greatly. It does sound like it would be very interesting to hear what others think, wether belief, opinion, or knowing(or think they do) Yes it would be very interesting!
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