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Author
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Topic: I am a little confused...
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 11, 2005 05:26 PM
 
iAmThat..
do not have time to answer your post completely..
but as for Isaiah being a naked prophet...
One problem....
The Hebrew people had a VERY BIG TABOO against nudity!
But then again...there are MANY contradictions in the so called Good Book.
And the rapes and murders and destroying had nothing to do with anything but taking by force what they "believed" was theirs to just take. Same for the murder of children.
Later...IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 07:20 PM
Hi Sue,
I do not think you need to validate your self with scriptures or what the church says, all the time? Scriptures must be used for reference only. Many people make mistakes in taking it literally. To be a part of church and which one , or not at all is also a personal choice. Also Buddha said (paraphrase) "Do not accept anything because it was told to you or passed down. Reason it out. Weigh it yourself and then chose the truth." Hi Faye,
Well you are much more knowledgable than me on the Bible. Wish I was a seminarian to debate, which I am not. I just took a look at a couple and voiced my opinion since I saw there was no response. Wonder why Peajie is shying away  May be he does not like to argue on such topics but only voice his opinion. ===============================
Come on guys, the tone is getting serious on this thread. Do we really need to get to the bottom of things Is that a Scorp thing I like that. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 6185
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted October 11, 2005 07:50 PM
Isaiah ben Amoz was a Political Prophet. That is very important to remember about his prophecy. Isaiah's greatness lies not only in his ethical teachings, but in his central involvement--and prophetic intervention--in the political events of his day.
Isaiah Goes Naked to Illustrate the Consequences of Judah's Rebellion.
Several years later, in 714 B.C.E., a different revolt broke out in southern Palestine‑led by the city of Ashdod. This event is recorded in Isaiah 20. Once again the prophet took an active part, dramatizing the dangerous consequences of impetuous revolt against Assyria. His symbolic and excessive performance (he went "naked and barefoot for three years," verse 31) probably had a greater popular impact than his ongoing oracles to the people of Judah to trust the Lord for victory and not to rely upon the words and weapons of Egypt (Isaiah 30‑32). Isaiah's warnings proved true. Sargon II smashed the coalition in 712 B.C.E., and while Judah participated in the event, there was no Assyrian action against her.
http://hillel.myjewishlearning.com/texts/bible/TO_Prophets_1460/TOLiteraryProphets/IsaiahBenAmozFishbane.htm
Dramitic , yes? Effective, yes? It apparantly saved MANY lives... was it worth it? Blessings,  ------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 08:10 PM
IATDont you have a Scorpio moon.......if so, then you of all people would understand that need to delve deeply?  IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 08:37 PM
Well Sue, Yes and No. Yes because the western tools says that it is. The hindu tools says its Libra.That comment was a complement believe it or not. Based on observing two of my close friends. But, but sometimes it is forbidden to remove the veil from Isis. You know what I mean? IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 08:43 PM
You sound like an Irishman...saying yes and no. There is an expression here "it is and it isnt".....basically its a cop out for not answering a question LOL.In answer to your question.......errrr.......I do and I dont man !!!! Sorry I couldnt resist. And in my humble opinion I feel that moon is plutonian....I have seen how intense you can become.....mmmmm.......tell me about it LOL !!!! Goodnight, Love Sue
xxx IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 08:44 PM
BTW, Just to make this post lighter. According to Cayce's past life report posted by MG, I was a Egyptian priest in my past life and I used my occult knowledge against someone close which God didn't like  IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 09:08 PM
>>>....I have seen how intense you can become.....mmmmmThanks girl. I would remember that next time before reacting in a way I was programmed 
BTW, I am a cancer sun, so that makes me partially evil. I read it somewhere that all water signs have a greater dark side to them compared to other signs. Can't remember which astrologer said that? I think its a hidden strength, to be a step ahead of your friends and enemies alike don't you? Did you see star wars 3? I think Annakin should have won the final battle because he was simply the BEST of the lot.
About that intense part you said, Well, English is a second language to me. I really have to struggle compared to the rest of you, to say what I really want to say. I think you are sensing the key strokes
Peace be with ya.
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TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 12, 2005 10:53 AM
Thanks, Juni. That puts it in perspective.IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 12, 2005 11:00 AM
Guys I edited my previous posts.... Just to let you know....I mentioned the nazarenes were secret society....I actually meant the essenes .. Ummm what was I thinking ...
Annaheim is Annakin.....
yo...I was really ready for bed last nite.  Dear Juni,
That was nice link. But the point is the earliest known isaiah scrolls is from the Dead Sea discovery and the timings are anywhere from 250bc - 68 ad. So sceptics would always say that the events were recorded after it occurred. You know what I mean. So it all boils down to faith again.
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TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 12, 2005 11:12 AM
quote:
What about the great King David whose first story was of killing a man named Goliath, and who went on later to have a man sent to the front lines to get killed so he could take that man's wife? There's a great jew, huh?
AG ~ Yes, even the great King David fell prey to the temptations of lust and power. David paid a steep price for his sin against Uriah.  No one is above the Law. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 6185
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted October 12, 2005 07:44 PM
Greetings, I agree the verse in Genesis regarding Noah being drunk and naked is , on the surface, ugly. Genesis 9:20-24 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him Lets look at t closer and play "what if" What if a Jewish Mystic wrote the verse/chapter? What does: drunk, wine and nakedness mean to the Mystic? If the words are applied in that vein, we have a whole different meaning of Noahs State! One that makes the statement "Noah Walked with God" harmonious with his State of drunkeness. Aselzion I believe your insights would be most welcome and enjoyed here! Ra, care to share too Blessings, ------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 12, 2005 10:24 PM
Excellent perspective Juniperb. Most stories in the Bible are symbolic to make our minds understand. Also its not fair to quote bits and pieces from the bible. The entire scripture from beginning to end must be taken into account. When God selected David over his other beautiful brothers, He chose him over them because David's heart was good. And I believe that David did repent in the end which is so evident in his Psalms (68, 69,70,87,101,129) .
It appears the first five books from OT has some code underneath, set by a higher intelligence. It maintains a story as well as may be revealing that plan to us. Yes I am talking about the Bible codes. I am keeping my ears open about it. A lot of research is still underway. Exciting times we are in.
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seeshells
Knowflake Posts: 98
From:
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted October 12, 2005 11:13 PM
Greetings Knowflakes, IAT said it quiet well: "Also its not fair to quote bits and pieces from the bible. The entire scripture from beginning to end must be taken into account." There are many levels of meaning to the bible and we can see only from our vantage point. Is there only one way of looking at what is being said? Perhaps some of it wasn't meant to be taken literally, but spiritually. There are many beautiful stories in the bible as well, a balance of good and bad. Jesus came to teach us to walk in light and love. Have we learned yet? Blessings. sueIP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7542
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 13, 2005 03:22 AM
IAT, comparitively speaking wouldn't there be heart be on the same level as David's?I am quite certain God could have chosen a person with a good heart or even a better heart who wouldn't do such dramatically terrible things. Maybe the point is more taking a person who is fundamentally flawed and making him a leader thereby really justifying and vilifying sinners. I guess my point is more that people should be careful about who they make heros of, and also be aware that Jesus is truly the only perfect character in the book. A Christian is one who follows Christ, and I think a lot of the Bible serves to confuse that. The New Testament is far better on it's own than it is combined with the Old Testament. Anyway, that's my take. Love one another as I have loved you. - Jesus IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 13, 2005 08:49 AM
quote:
I guess my point is more that people should be careful about who they make heros of ...
Who's making a hero out of King David?  Of course he was flawed. (Although, in all honesty, probably less so then other Kings of the time.) That's the point of the story. quote:
and also be aware that Jesus is truly the only perfect character in the book.
Well ... yeah ... that's the point of the book.
Personally, I prefer the NT too. I am after all trying to be a Christian, not a Jew. Nevertheless, to see the progression from the Old to the New is worthwhile, I think. Also, remember that Jesus himself knew the Old Testament. It's difficult to get the full scope of Christianity without a passing acquaintance with Judaism. As the Torah was His roots, so they should be ours.
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iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 13, 2005 01:01 PM
>>>>>I guess my point is more that people should be careful about who they make heros of, and also be aware that Jesus is truly the only perfect character in the book. That was an interesting spin indeed. How about John the Baptist's head being cut off? Some believed he was Elijah in soul.
So his cutting of head would mean, end of prophecies? No more prophecies required, the messiah has indeed arrived. The story from Noahs flood to Exodus to Jesus's arrival is complete. Even though I believe more in NT (I am supposed to --hahaha), I sincerely believe the OT has come to fruition in the NT.
I see a strage power in the course who loves us dearly. I can and cannot really explain Who this Power is (Sue, yes I am coping out indeed this time, hehehehe)
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juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 6185
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted October 13, 2005 09:13 PM
Ah, yes IAT. It is refreshing to see one who can understand that there is symbloic meaning in the Holy Texts. After all, Jesus was a Mystic ey  Absolutely, taking words out of context, in ANY text, is a no-no and basic 101 Teachings. Blessings, ------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1365
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted October 14, 2005 11:57 AM
In response to the initial question, I have recently decided that yes, Paganism and Christianity go hand in hand. The question is whether we can use them together. Well, I don't see why not. I've decided to try to attend church again. I really had good friends there who will just have to agree to disagree that I will burn for eternity because I like astrology and numerology, and that their butts will be kised by GFod for all eternity. People have different view points. I'm fine with that. I want to learn what they have to say and make my own mind about what it could do to help me. That is my right as a human. I also understand that there are levels to things that get more complex as you delve into them, but this again falls to choices we make. One thing that's interested me recently is reading scientists talking about us all being one, and then going on to debate the names of thingd, or the relative timeline, or even that we have no power over our bodies after stating that thoughts seem to influence things. I just think sometimes we need to look outside the square and take what aids us, and remember what ails us as this could be used as advice later on. IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1365
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted October 14, 2005 11:57 AM
Even if it's not, hopefully we will remember lessons in order to not repeat them. At the end of the day, you are who you create. If you bash the bible, then you're a bible basher. If you read it, then you're a bible reader. The ends do justify the means, but who's at an end? We all exist and choose things continuously. This is who we are. Why can't we be a conglomeration of everything we've learnt - even if the parts are contradictory?Dean. IP: Logged |
Hedgewitch
Knowflake Posts: 380
From:
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted October 14, 2005 03:40 PM
i love being a pagan.i love jesus christ. go figure.  
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sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 14, 2005 04:04 PM
I love being ME............most of the time......and I dont like to label myself, if I can help it, although at times I have called myself a heathen......(to my mother, of late)......mmmmm.......interesting.....I cant say I love a man I never met or spoke to (Jesus I mean), I could if I chose to love his words or his teachings, but I unlike others.....didnt meet him.....oh well I suppose I could try putting him in my wish box.... .....would still put Eddie Vedder on top of my list tho, TBH Love to all
Sue xxx
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 14, 2005 04:08 PM
edit  IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 14, 2005 04:12 PM
Aaaaaahhhh Fayte.....you too are very very sweet....and you hve been on my mind so much.....hope things get better down below in the waterworks dept......xxxxxxIP: Logged |
Petron
Knowflake Posts: 2837
From: Paradise
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted October 14, 2005 06:37 PM
 quote:
Deuteronomy 18
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B05C018.htm ******** enchanter 5172
nachash
naw-khash' a primitive root; properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate:-- certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, indeed, diligently observe.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB51.htm#S5172 *****
wizard 3049
yidd`oniy
yid-deh-o-nee'
from 'yada`' (3045); properly, a knowing one; specifically, a conjurer; (by impl) a ghost:--wizard.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB30.htm#S3049
******
necromancer
1875
darash
daw-rash' a primitive root; properly, to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by implication, to seek or ask; specifically to worship:--ask, at all, care for, diligently, inquire, make inquisition, (necro-)mancer, question, require, search, seek (for, out), surely.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB18.htm#S1875
IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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