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Author
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Topic: I am a little confused...
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sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 09, 2005 01:41 PM
 
Something IAT said in a thread about giving up tarot cards and astrology has made me think..........as to why many may appear to be dabbling in occult practices such as tarot, numerology and astrology and still claim to follow the bible.....even though it states in many parts that is an ungodly way to live? I am honest and admit I have no religious leanings at all......have great faith in the universe, but dont read the bible, or go to church . But if I did have faith in that book,
and follow its message, I dont know if I would feel comfortable with practising the pagan stuff too? My mother used to say "beware of false prophets and soothe sayers etc". I am sure those amongst us who are familiar with the book would be able to quote... I raised this matter before, but am still curious.......is it a matter of swinging from christian to pagan...?   Curiously yours
Sue xxx
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lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 8130
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted October 09, 2005 01:44 PM
Hi Sweet SueI hope you don't mind me responding I think that it's all linked together
got separated to keep us from knowing
truth
if you put them together
you can find a balance
just my thoughts Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 09, 2005 04:13 PM
I think it's a matter of understanding exactly what the warning was and why it was given.IP: Logged |
Saturn's Child
Knowflake Posts: 867
From: Just left of center
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 09, 2005 06:09 PM
You know the Bible was altered over the years, particularly, I think during the Constantinople (sp?) conference hundreds of years ago. Many estoteric passages were removed, ie, reincarnation and other metaphysical references in order to offer the church more power. The less we know, the less individual power we retain. So we rely on the church to help us know God, thus giving them the power or direct line to God's will for us. Of course references to guilt, shame, punishment, and the wrath of God was added and or played up. Also, much of the Bible has been translated and lost it's metaphysical bent. Remember the verses that say something like..let those who have eyes see and those who have ears hear? If you take the metaphysical translations from the Aramic and Hebrew Languages the Bible takes on a whole new meaning.
Besides, there were prophets of the Bible who told of future events who were not considered evil or satanic at all. What separates them from anyone else who can see the future, read tarot cards, etc? Were they the only ones blessed by the creator? Am I not also a child of God?
Also, i'm not sure where it's located, but somewhere there are passages regarding "gifts" given by God. One of those is discernment, another is prophecy. From what I remember these gifts are there for all who would have them.
Good question, Sue!! Those are my thoughts on the subject.
Love to you.......  ------------------
"I never know where I need to be until I get there." -from The Dogs of Babel IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 8130
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted October 09, 2005 06:20 PM
Saturn's Childthat was wonderful to me, open and honest, and I agree with you whole heartedly  Love and Light to ALL and it went through at 6:09 = 15 = 6 LOVE IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 09, 2005 07:48 PM
quote:
Also, i'm not sure where it's located, but somewhere there are passages regarding "gifts" given by God. One of those is discernment, another is prophecy.
Saturn  , I think that's the key. Prophecy w/o discernment is a recipe for disaster. I am a child of God, as were Samuel and Isaiah etc., but I'm not on their level and I don't have their powers of discernment. Their prophetic visions were as rare as was their ability to discern truth from falsehood - and equal to it. Granted, I don't suppose a pack of tarot cards requires quite those discernment skills - but it does require some. I have seen even these minor forms, such as modern astrology and the cards and so forth, cause unecessary damage because they were used improperly or just plain misunderstood. It's so easy to be fooled. I think even Abraham was fooled at the rock. Basically, I guess I'm saying that if you really believe in these things, if you really believe they work you don't f#ck around with them. You take them seriously. IP: Logged |
Saturn's Child
Knowflake Posts: 867
From: Just left of center
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 09, 2005 10:31 PM
Tink, absolutely! I agree with you. I don't believe the tarot, or astrology, runes, or any tool to self knowledge and sprituality should be taken lightly. And I feel that they are just that..tools. I know that the ability to utilize those tools is God given. I also know that there are those that use them foolishly and those that do harm with them..just as with anything else. My point was that the tools and the ability to use them in a loving mindful way does not make them evil....people misusing the tools are the problem. They give the tools a bad rep.
I also believe that if they make one uncomfortable one should stay away from them. Different strokes for different folks.
I use my tarot cards for myself. They help me see things that I may otherwise overlook or may not be consciously aware of. I always ask for Divine awareness and understanding prior to using them. I seldom do readings for others unless I feel strongly guided to do so.
My point is that much of the esoteric was removed from the Bible for a reason, and much was lost in translation. For me, the wonderful teachings of Jesus hold no contradictions with the teachings of the tarot. I believe they are quite compatible.
But, that's just me.
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TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3324
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 09, 2005 10:54 PM
No argument here. All Truth is compatible.  As for the age old quandry sue g. brought up - some of those tools are sharp ... hence the original warning. You know, I've never considered any of these things "pagan". IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 09, 2005 11:22 PM
I think you guys know by now the context in which I made those statements. Thank God there are people who still see things like you do and makes you want to stay Well continuing back to our topic. It is infact a tool. A tool not for fortune tellers but for people who are trying to visualize relation between Man, God and the Universe. Just as Astrology this tool got degenerated over time when it fell in the hands of foolish priests and other fortune tellers.
The questions I am asking myself are:
(1) Do we charge people for services rendered?
(2) Do we have to resalvage it in this age?
[optional] Who do you say discovered Tarots?
Amen (not saying Awomen..never understood why anybody would use such a word  ) IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7542
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 12:14 AM
I guess that my own opinion would be that if it helps you and doesn't hurt anyone else, then it's ok. If it encourages you to be good to people, even better.IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 1651
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 12:25 AM
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iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 10, 2005 01:15 AM
AG,
Well said. God give me the wisdom to understand that my negative does not exist. It is false and madness.OK my response: 1. Tarot was invented by Kabalist sages. 2. Do I think we must charge for the services to understand the relations between God, Universe and Man?
I personally do not charge for anything that involves God. Since when did God ask me to pay for all that clean air I breathe every day? 3. Do we resalvage it in this age?
God has to be understood in ones heart. That has to be encouraged than making a subject a prisoner of these tools. Well enough of my rants. Back to Peajies post. He must have already fired couple of missiles from NZ/Australia since he has a time advantage quote:
Do what thou must.--IAT
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peajie
Knowflake Posts: 246
From: Australia
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 11:22 AM
I am always unsettled by people who believe that they have received messages or gifts from God.That implies that S/he is somebody who must have known and accepted the recent tidal waves and earthquakes.
And a God who has control of such things is not somebody I would want to love. A bit like missiles. Yuk. The "time advantage" was amusing, because NOW is now anywhere regardless of man made clocks and date lines. But I suppose it is nice to think I may be talking to my American friends as the voice of the future. LOL.
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 11:24 AM
Isaiah ran around naked...
So we are supposed to believe him?!
Noah was a drunk.
Moses killed alot of people after being told..
"Thou shalt not Kill".
Well you can slay..put to the sword...destroy utterly..stone to death..
dash children against walls...
all kinds of sadistic things....
as long as they are not your people!
Oh..yeah..that's right...he also killed his own people because they refused to go kill other people.
Something is very very wrong with the MANY versions of the so called Good Book!
here are a few for starters:
KJV:
Psalm 137:9
Malachi 2:3
Leviticus 20:9
Kings 18:27
Ezekiel 23:20
Leviticus 20:16
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
I Timothy 2:12-15
Deuteronomy 28:53
  
Alot more creepy stuff..
Lord admits to being Baali
Tells the people to not call him that anymore.
Lord hisses for flies.
An evil spirit from the Lord is put into Saul.
Lord said he created evil..
Lots of nasty creepy stuff they do not teach in Bible class!IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7542
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 11:35 AM
What about the great King David whose first story was of killing a man named Goliath, and who went on later to have a man sent to the front lines to get killed so he could take that man's wife? There's a great jew, huh? IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 11:42 AM
Great King David also took foreskins in battle as trophies and for a dowry.
Great King David also seemed to have a rather frisky relationship to Jonathan.
Lots more weird stuff....not just there!
And again...after the thou shalt not kill...
they all have a merry old time in repeated murderous raping burning sacking romps....
because they claimed lord told them to!
Well Lord later said..."I have made all my prophets liars......"
yep...the so called good book(s) are full of sadistic acts and contradiction and worse.IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7542
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 12:07 PM
All of which he handed down to his concubine-loving son. Family values
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 01:39 PM
Then there is the righteous man who sacrifices his virgin daughter on a burning altar!
Such a nice daddy! Bast-rd!
Or the good chosen people who stone a poor old man to death for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.
Or how about those golden hemmoroids and mice in the Ark of the Covenant?
Yes..emerods are HEMMOROIDS!
And why is it the ONLY ones associated with darkness...fire...flames...dark smoke..savors the smell of burning flesh...hisses for flies...sends evil spirits...and alot of other nasty things...
Are Lord(with his MANY ambiguous names) and his agents?
Now what is wrong with that picture?
Oh..yeah or the part about covering up your
poop so Lord won't step in it....uh huh....
Incest...rape...murder..abortion..and more...ordered or condoned by Lord...or so the good book says....uh huh....
Any version of the so called good book would have to be rated R or X if made into a movie!
Very weird...very something wrong there..  IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 10, 2005 04:09 PM
Ohhhhhh.....Fayte.......that is why I avoided it like the plague.....cos it is so full of darkness and negativity......Oh oh oh......I understand now.....I always thought something didnt ring true.....LOL !!!All the time it was just my little white light shining......protecting me......wise child.....listened to her inner voice... Now it makes sense why all those peadophile priests have it resting on their pulpits, in their gold adorned churches.....wouldnt it make you just want to spit.....YUK... Thank God for truth hey Fayte......if only you knew the stories I have listened to from people here who were beaten, raped, buggered and mentally tortured by holy people....nuns, priests, christian brothers etc....all in the name of religion. I have wept after hearing their accounts of cruelty, and in some cases their mothers didnt even question it even tho they knew it was happening....AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH......that is SO EVIL!!!!!!!!! "Aaah but sure you wouldnt question a priest".........AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!! Question one, I would have fecking killed him!!!! What a load of old bollox that is hey......and how wonderful that the new generations are actually learning to cop on to themselves........questioning, speaking out, and saying no to religion. I shall now proceed to climb down from my soap box....
Rant over. Love to all Sue xxxx IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 5816
From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 10, 2005 05:47 PM
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sue g
Knowflake Posts: 7135
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 03:19 PM
Nice to see someone else with the same strong sense of justice fayte.....I get a little disillusioned with people not expressing their concerns or rage.......until it happens to one of their own of course (not on my doorstep so I dont wanna know).All I can say is thank God for karma....hope the b******* get what is coming to them hey.....but even so it dont change what they did to the poor victims does it??? Love Sue xx IP: Logged |
angel_of_hope
Knowflake Posts: 1038
From: Palmer, Alaska (the valley)
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 03:46 PM
I've always been a lil leary on the teaching of the bible. After I was born my parents didnt practice religion like the did years before. I remember going to church with a neighbor for a couple weeks, till i felt it wasnt fitting for me. I began to ask questions that the sunday school teacher seemed to run around the answers i was looking for. After that i felt it was all false. Later in life, i would get into debates with children in school over the bible. Which seemed futile and never ending - cause who can prove either wrong!?!? I've heard about the bible being dwindled down of knowledge over the years ... and agree with the reasons Saturns child has stated. I believe in a higher power a higher being, a creator, Mother and Father ... but im not so sure about all these religious teachings preformed by the churches. I've heard from a few diffrent people that the King James version of the bible is the one that has been least altered, but still altered. ALthough who am i to say that when i am not a follower of the works ... IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 1255
From: third rock from the Sun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 04:08 PM
Did you read the Gnostic gospels, from the Nag Hammadi? Its supposed to be dictated by Jesus himself? Don't know how much of it is true, but it certainly is making me think.Faye "About the children head smashing."
I think the essenes were doing that to preserve their secret knowledge, when being imprisoned by a Foreign culture. The essence were kindda like the "The Brotherhood." or "Free Masons" or other such secret society. Also you said "Isaiah running naked."
That is great. Is a child ever afraid or ashamed to come to come near their parent?
Same with Isaih, he has realized God and is not afraid of anything? You have to strip your self completely before coming to God.
Again, the gnostics deals a lot on the topic of nakedness especially the secret Gospel of Mark where Jesus is asking a man to only cover his nakedness before being initiated? I am going thru a new dimension in my own thinking. Everyone:
Think about it. Was Jesus stupid to not have asked the same questions about the OT in his time. He certainly would have asked his disciples to write down his teachings for us. Well whatever is the truth, I am glad I am able to read the gnostics.
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MAGUS of MUSIC
Knowflake Posts: 1495
From: The Highlands,NY,usa
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted October 11, 2005 04:33 PM
Ya should have mail now SueIP: Logged |
future_uncertain
Knowflake Posts: 2415
From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 11, 2005 05:15 PM
I wanna talk about this. It was weighing heavily on my mind today and now I've found this thread.Not now... I don't have the time to devote to my reply. But I have questions. Maybe we can forumlate some answers... Sue, for posting this. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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