posted November 15, 2006 02:01 PM         

She's definitely a master of weasling her way out of my questions. I suppose she has no desire to convince me of her point, and as a result I am wholly unconvinced.

posted November 15, 2006 02:10 PM         

your heart is true and very compassionate. i rank the thoughts and words you share here highly.

there is the seen and the unseen, the surface and the unglimpsed depth. Trillian has an unselfishness of soul that is rare and deep. i would look well beneath the surface of what she says.

posted November 15, 2006 02:41 PM         

i have had similar concerns. may i suggest that when you do your ordaining, meditating, willing, etc....that you include a request to the universe with your thoughts ~ ask that what you will or ordain be for the highest good of all. that what you ordain harms no one.

another idea ~ this works so well...from personal experience...a daily thought to the universe that includes gratitude for the life that you have, combined with a request that all your actions be in alignment with your higher self, for the highest good of all, and with the blessing of the universe (or god or goddess or spirit or whomever).

posted November 15, 2006 03:02 PM         

I do see what Trillian's point is, and I do read underneath her posts. I understand why she answers me in a more indirect way. I grasp that truth is relative and blurred. And I know that almost all acts are selfish, but it is my hope that by playing devil's advocate that an unselfish act might somehow reveal itself. Color me an idealist.

posted November 15, 2006 10:03 PM         

the Truth is Simple!

it is US, humans who complicate them..not our OverSoul. ...

posted November 17, 2006 05:28 PM         

Now for the ladies, here is a song he sang on Saturday that was dedicated to his wife as it was her birthday, and the first time he couldn't say Happy Birthday to her in person.

And, yes I think Eddie should be knighted as he's a lot more polite than Elton. But then the rest of the band would be unfairly treated.

As for the ordaining, I did this through pure desire. I didn't utter a mantra or meditate. I just wanted it really bad all year, and then two days before the concert it happened.

One last word. In my opinion, everything comes down to Karma. If you flush the toilet, you are selfishly manifesting good karma. If you don't flush, then you selfishly manifest negative karma. All your actions are creations of who you are, and who you will be. They are of the self, by the self, and for the self. Mother Theresa is a hard one to justify as selfish, but I think on a deeper level, she was involved Karmically in a selfish pursuit of the lessons she was looking for. Therefore, the fact that we live is selfish. We could completely remain unselfish as spirits that manifest the dreams of people, but cannot dream of their own accord. It is impossible therefore to be unselfish having a self. The person that had to forfeit the tickets did so due to an exam she had that night that she didn't want to miss, but mate, I would have in a heart beat.

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

posted November 17, 2006 09:02 PM         

BlueRoamer, I think perhaps we are more alike than we care to admit. We are both seekers, believing in an elusive clarity that may or may not exist. Or, maybe it exists today, not so much tomorrow. I thank you for the opportunity to banter and tear it up a bit; I love a good academic argument. Namaste.

Dean...You're such a sweet soul. I'm glad you got to see PJ twice in the same tour. There is much to what you see. Namaste.

Oh, and SueG...you have good taste in men. But the coolest man on earth remains...That sexy Irishman...Bono. Be still my heart.

posted November 17, 2006 09:27 PM         

the saints are coming

posted November 18, 2006 01:02 AM         

Thats not right Trillan. It was neber supposed to be. Humans are selfish by nature and they must strive to be selfless. We flush the toilet because we are civilised people and wish that the next one using the toilet feels nice.

Blue Roamer allowed the older lady ahead of her because intuitively she (are u ??)
saw her own future in that old lady expected the same treatment from some one younger.

Mother theresa isn't selfish. If she was selfish, why would she ever chose to begin her missionary in a third world country with scarce resource? I believe she followed example of Jesus and set her own examples that can be followed by later generations. It was her dharma(duty). Not performing your duty is inviting negative karma.

One must sit in the least recognised place when going to a wedding. And not be like the current politicians who wants first row, publicity , etc.... In the spiritual kingdom the last is first and the first last.

I too believe that all humans are good and we can remind them of that by our own selfless examples.

posted November 18, 2006 08:14 AM         

In fact, naiad might have hit on another interesting matter to be considered. Here in the western world, we are quite programmed about our bathroom habits. A "selfish" subliminal type reason to flush that public toilet is to ensure that the next person through the door does not view our waste products, which are of such a highly personal nature that we generally don't share them with anyone once we are potty trained.

I'm not here to argue or convince. You (and by that, I mean whomever) will believe what you will, and so long as you are happy in your beliefs, so be it.

quote:

---

Thats not right Trillan

---

You can judge others, but until you recognize that they are as much a part of God/dess as you, then you can not decide for them what is right. And, if you do recognize the God/dess in all, you do not need to see a difference between "right" and "wrong."

posted November 18, 2006 01:08 PM         

I believe its ok to eat creatures. Perhaps in your world its not ok. I do not believe in being greedy, wasting, and killing for no reason.

Nobody can tell ya
There's only one song worth singing
They may try and sell ya
Cause it hangs them up to see someone like you
But you've gotta make your own your kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind of music
Even if nobody sings along

Anyways now that we know each other. I too do not believe that I'm the authority. No one is your authority. You are your own authority. But think of it, doesn't all human consciousness have one source? It only leads to philosophy when we speak of where we began and where we are heading. And because its philosophical it leads to arguments. This ain't somethig new. Humans have fought with each other and destroyed each other. Look at Mars which may have been teeming with life once

posted November 18, 2006 01:18 PM         

Linda Goodman isn't right all the time, yet her fans respect her, sells books in her name. No one here on earth is perfect I believe. Or perhaps I haven't met one. Or like what you said "it was never meant to be " hehehe....

Althought, the all pervading Goddess loves each and everyone selflessly, but those that do more good and think of her is dearer to her and they return to her quickly

Hmmm.... am I going to be axed by that last statement hahahaha

posted November 18, 2006 08:15 PM         

Is the one not with a bigger car supposed to dream of getting a bigger car someday? I do not believe in material status determining the altitude of a person. Its their attitude which I look at. Although I won't refrain from asking people not to seek those pleasure. But when they come to me and ask for happiness, I say this is what will truely make you happy and they just walk away dissapointed as its not time for them yet.

Why does one want to spend 1 million dollar for their wedding night when that same money could be spend on feeding entire villages in africa for many many years.
We are not speaking of oil that Mary used on Jesus's feet , perhaps it would be hundreds of dollar and not millions in todays date. Perhaps Jesus too would like to understand why????

Why do the Ceo's make such outrageous salary in America? I like the CEO of costco who takes meagre salary compared to other ceos in the same business.

There is no limit on material desires. We must strive to get inner peace by helping the weakest link get up on feet. Only in animal world the weakest link has to die and the strongest survive. In the spiritual world the weakest is desired as he seeks mercy.

I also see many Americans who have a nice heart. Who are shamans and their neighbor do not even recognize them
I see people who do not get involved in office politics and people who wants to be powerful by stepping on others.

By Trillians definition of selfishness, if a child abuser gets kick out of watching a nude child, we must encourage him. And who are we to judge. That to me is very riduculous. There are some things which are never meant to be. And those who do that will pay a price.

Well have to say more. Will come back and edit when I have time so excuse the grammar.

Cheers.
M

posted November 18, 2006 08:45 PM         

People in America will go into massive debt just to "keep up with the Jones'". For that bigger newer car. For that swimming pool for the kids. It's absoutely disugsting considering how many people would just like to eat.

I'd like to see Trillian's response to your last scenario. She does seem to be advocating an "if it feels good do it" philosophy, which simply doesn't apply to everything. I think, however, that she would respond that there are limits to reveling in the self and taking joy, that our actions must not bring harm to others intentionally. Compassion is always a must.

posted November 18, 2006 09:24 PM         

So I've spent some time petting the cats, washing off the make-up, and am now enjoying a little Irish whisky.

I am indeed an Aries, with moon in the lovely, pragmatic Capricorn. I reveal that to indicate that I am many things, and not just a headstrong firebrand, careless of thought.

What I'm saying here is...that it is my pleasure to increasingly see the mingling of the mundane, and the "esoteric." And it's a beautiful way to view the Universe. Randall once posted a fabulously moving story here in LL, that comes close to the philosophical outlook of which I speak; if I can remember what it was called, I'll find the link.

I'm not sure what bit of logic brought you to the "encourage the pedophile" point. That's an oversimplification of the end of an equation that I didn't write. But knowing that that is your interpretation of my alleged philosophies, I suppose I don't expect you to understand...

We agree to our lives. Our beautiful, boundles spirits agree to come to this here/now consciousness, for whatever reason. To grow, to learn, or maybe just on a spiritual-level dare.

"I bet you don't have the guts to go back to earth as an @sshole pedophile!"

"Oh yeah, well I bet you don't have the guts to be my victim!"

Or perhaps it would resonate for you a little better if I phrased it like this:

"Dear Brother in Spirit, I have had a hard time lately understanding things that I am not. I do not understand, and find it difficult to love, He Who Is The Pedophile. I wish to relinquish this selfish misunderstanding on my part, for I feel that He Who Is the Pedophile is still a part of Goddess. What do you suggest?"

"Sister, I have known what it is to be He Who Is the Pedophile in a previous life, but I have not known what it is to be his Victim. Perhaps we could offer this Learning of Love to each other, and grow together. If you will allow me to be your Victim, I will embrace this life with you, however difficult it may be at the time."

So, is this of God/dess? I would submit that EVERYTHING IS GOD/DESS.

The God/dess I believe in does not make mistakes.

Am I being glib? Maybe. Maybe not. Do I want Pedophiles to harm children. Absolutely Not. If I had a child, and someone harmed her, I don't know what I would do.

Yet I can't help but see that...Everything that Is, Is. A Piece of a Part of a Whole. If we see all aspects of life as necessary, if we see the Universe as our own creation rather than something outside of ourselves...if we see imperfections and love them, there is the greater lesson. There is the greater good.

But to elevate ourselves because we believe we breathe the rarefied air of the "enlightened..." That, to me, is more reprehensible than the mogul who enjoys his Bentleys. Money is jut money; in my opinion, it's a waste of time and energy to hate those who have a lot of money. It's just a commodity, to which we have given more power than he who posesses it. We chose to come to the material world; how we choose to enjoy it, or not enjoy it, is still personal.

I do want to thank you all for this wonderful fun; the stimulation is very enjoyable.

BlueRoamer, I'm sorry, I don't know you well, and I don't spend much time at LL anymore. In fact, I'm a little surprised that I've spent so much time on this thread. Anyway, I was unsure whether you were a male or female, so it is nice to know definitively.

Please excuse spelling and syntax errors...I'm very tired...

'til we meet again...

posted November 18, 2006 09:29 PM         

quote:

---

people love themselves too much these days

---

By the way, it makes me sad that anyone can believe this. Love is all there is, love is boundless and endless. There is never a point where love runs out.

Love and adore yourself as much as you can! Do whatever it takes to love yourself! You are wonderful, beautiful, a creative genius, you are unique, you are a child of the Universe, you are worthy of Love!

You cannot love outside of yourself, until you fully love yourself.

Kiss yourself in the mirror tomorrow, and say "Good Morning Beautiful! I love you!"

And if you love material things, then love them fully and enjoy your life! Be kind, be happy...be all you want to be.

Namaste

posted November 18, 2006 11:01 PM         

our culture actually encourages this...advertisers and corporate america, encourage this self-loathing and self-questioning -- it's what sells their stuff.

the stuff that momentarily inflates our self-esteem, makes us love ourselves, for the adulation we receive for the best new haircut, best new car, new outfit, etc.....

for that is what we are lacking most....self-esteem, from deep within.

how are we supposed to live up to the fabricated lives in magazines, movies and television? who is really that cool and beautiful?

the most cool and beautiful are those whose love for themselves arises from a sense of self, of spirit -- not from what they own or can purchase. that is fleeting and transitory.

our corporate culture benefits from cultivating this self-loathing and low self-esteem...it's market driven.

i would submit that knowflakes are quite some of the most cool and beautiful people around.

linda's messages of love and spiritual knowledge are quite revolutionary, if you think about it.

posted November 18, 2006 11:35 PM         

Theres a saying in hinduism. God says love me or hate me but do not be indifferent to me.

posted November 18, 2006 11:59 PM         

quote:

---

there are people who hurt others for their selfish motives.

---

this usually is due to their having been hurt at some time also. the cycle must end somewhere...someone must forgive...and let love in.

Mother/Goddess is a good entity for finding this nurturing spirit.

This is to Mother You

This is to mother you
To comfort you and get you through
Through when your nights are lonely
Through when your dreams are only blue
This is to mother you

This is to be with you
To hold you and to kiss you too
For when you need me I will do
What your own mother didn't do
Which is to mother you

All the pain that you have known
All the violence in your soul
All the 'wrong' things you have done
I will take from you when I am come
All mistakes made in distress
All your unhappiness
I will take away with my kiss, yes
I will give you tenderness

For child I am so glad I've found you
Although my arms have always been around you
Sweet bird although you did not see me
I saw you

And I'm here to mother you
To comfort you and get you through
Through when your nights are lonely
Through when your dreams are only blue
This is to mother you