posted April 02, 2008 07:58 PM         

I hope everything is ok 26T

posted April 02, 2008 09:00 PM         

I believe it is a personal choice.

I believe there are karmic penalties.

I would respect anybody's choice to end their own life, but after being on the other end of suicide, this is not my lifetime to do so.

blessings

posted April 02, 2008 09:28 PM         

It is this complex and this simple, when we take our life, we take the emotional life of everyone who cares about us as well.
It is very hard to get through long earth years with the kind of guilt that suicide survivors( family and friends of the person who takes their life)feel.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell by your presence here at LL that you are an amazing person and the world needs us knowflakes! That sounds trite, but what would the world do with out people who are diverse enough to recognize and appreciate the spiritual evolution of each being on earth?

Hugs and blessed be always,
Char

posted April 02, 2008 09:33 PM         

You are a treasure!

Hugs,
Char

posted April 02, 2008 10:19 PM         

The sister of the woman who initiated me in Reiki killed hereself, and, according to her, when she heard the news she felt like a sledgehammer hit her in the head. She said she felt that literally, physically, and it was, as you can imagine, excruciating. My therapist has told me about the families she has seen affected by suicide, and this is another consideration that I've kept in mind. She says the suicide of a loved one "blows holes" in the survivors. She says they never completely recover. Some families come together during tragedy, and others are torn apart. It takes a strong family unit to come together after a suicide, and not fragment. I always think about what it would do to my father, who is such a vibrant, sweetnatured man. I think about that, and I ask for help, and pretty soon the sun is peeking through the dark clouds, like it always does, and like I thought it never would again.

Tara, I know you feel isolated... I know the warm sense of community is like a distant dream where you are... But you are not so far away... we are not so far away... We are also you... and you are a part of every one of us... and, the absolute least I can say, is that I would miss your presence here tremendously, and always wonder if I had some part in your decision... by the way I've relentlessly challenged your philosophical stances... and pitted myself and my personal likes and dislikes against your own in some misguided, egoistic dance... You know I am not one of those people who can shake it off and say "It was her decision,"... I see too clearly how we are all threaded together... how everything we say and do bears significantly upon the souls of those we contact in this life... how every straw is heavy enough to break a back, if it is the last straw... Tara, we love you and care about you, and your wit and your pithy responses are powerful and insightful and they are more appreciated and more effective than you will ever know, in catalyzing the evolution of your fellow knowflakes... I dont want to give you a ******* novel to read here, but, Jesus, I want to say the right thing somewhere in here... we love you.

posted April 02, 2008 10:20 PM         

The feeling is mutual.

What you wrote was beautiful.

posted April 02, 2008 10:31 PM         

We have never spoken much, and maybe that makes it better. So, ask Zala for my email, or I can post it on here for a few seconds? Let me know if you would like me to post it.

You have no idea how many times I have had to drag myself out of the pit you are in.

HSC

posted April 03, 2008 12:03 AM         

Well, firstly, the feelign that always encompasses me is that it wouldn't make any difference to anyone if I lived or died because no one cares anyway, and when I say that, I am just convincing myself of that fact because obviously someone, even one person will care, but saying that is a way to talk yourself into doing it.

The thing is, it takes bravery to kill yourself and so, when you are thinking of it, there are many days and hours where you sit psyching yourself up to doing it.

I psyche myself out by thinkign of every bad thing that has ever happened to me, and I try by all means to make myself so pitiful so that I can back up the statement that "I don't matter."

I ask WHY ME a lot, because I am the victim of life, fate and all such things. i wonder why i have been unlucky, why I have had such a tough road, when I have never laid a finger on anyone else. Askign myself these questions, and wondering why life is always picking on me, is my way of cementing the idea that I am not meant to be here.

I cry, I think of all those who have hurt me and even go to the extent of saying that I hope it pleases them that i am gone because I was a burden to them, because they were treating me like I was a burden.

You see, when suicidal thoughts come along, we somehow change it from it being about us, to it being some sort of sacrifice we are doing for our loved ones, either because we think at the time that we add no value to their lives, or we add a burden to their lives, or sometimes we justify killing ourselves by saying that we are doing everyone a favour. But the fact is, we are not doing anyone a favour, not ourselves, nor our loved ones. We are merely killing ourselves.

You see 26T, the only result that killing yourself will leave is pain to those left behind, and when I contemplate killing myself, it is because I want to hurt those around me, not because I really want to die.

So, ask yourself WHY you desire to end your life. if it is some revenge tactic, then you are not serving anyone because the best revenge would be to have all those people who have hurt you, see you prosper.

If you have a point to prove, prove it by living and showing them how wrong they were by treating you as if you didn't matter. Show them that they made a mistake by putting you down.

The best revenge on the world is PROSPERITY. nothing angers your enemies more than seeing you smile. Those who have told you to end your life will come back and apologize when they realize that they almost made a Goddess kill herself. They will come back to you bowing asking for your forgiveness for devaluing you.

So, seriously, knowing that made me live a little longer because had i killed myself, I would have proved to them that i am unworthy, but by living and going forth every day, I shame them everytime they think of me.

Shame those who have done you wrong by living and over coming your obstacles. Shame then by doing all the things they thought you couldn't do. Shame them by shining brighter than them. Shame them by showing them that you are stronger than they thought.

Serve a nice cold serving of revenge by JUST LOVING YOURSELF. That's all you need to do. That's how you destroy them, by building yourself. You can't build yourself if you die.

the reason you desire to die is because you are having constant anxiety attacks right now. I bet you have that knot on your diaphragm. As BR said, you're even palpitating. That is a panick attack and you just want it to stop, hence you want to just kill yourself.

Well, the best way to fight back all our demons is by knowing them, almost by being them. You have the whole world that seems to be fighting against you. Well, be a fighter, but do not fight them, fight for yourself. Fight for that day when you walk with your head held high, smiling, happy, and saying, "A few years ago, I actually wanted to kill myself"

FIGHT FOR THAT DAY when you see all of this as a bad dream. See it in your mind. See yourself smiling and showing everybody what a huge mistake they did by undervaluing you.

There is no way to get out of suicidal thoughts other than being aggressive and pumping yourself up for a fight, a fight to love yourself enough.

Okay, I am vengeful I suppose, and that's how i get out of bad thoughts. i have a "hit list" of people who i am going to take down ONE by ONE, and not by doing anything to their lives, but by doing everything that they said I couldn't do. That will be my revenge.

Make up a fighting strat too. A way that you can teach them all a lesson when they see you rise from the ashes, when you wake from the dead and prove to them that you are no mere mortal but a divine being, and that they should bow down to you and apologise for all their cruelty.

This includes your mom, the tax man, you exs, and every other person who dared to deem you unworthy to be.

Love

posted April 03, 2008 02:38 AM         

HSC, thanks for the emails too. I know....& you know....you know? And I got my number changed today. Thanks for trying. Glad to see you so happy lately and that you have come through again too.

posted April 03, 2008 02:39 AM         

"The genuine heart of sadness comes from feeling that your nonexistent heart is full. You would like to spill your heart's blood, give your heart to others. For the Warrior, this experience of a sad and tender heart is what gives birth to fearlessness... Real fearlessness is the product of tenderness. It comes from letting the world tickle your heart, your raw heart. You are willing to open up, without resistance or shyness, and face the world."

~ Chogyam Trungpa

posted April 03, 2008 05:30 AM         

now, where to start? there's so much to say.

sincerely,

1- you're an inspiration for me....

2-unmoved is so right...

3-the last few days i've been thinking about it too, for some personal reason difficult to explain here, but mainly i wanted to get back.... at god. nothing less. i just wanted to hurt him as much as i perceived that he hurt me. REVENGE. but thinking about it, would he really be hurt? i would probably hurt my friends and family more than god...

4-regarding karma, well i've been wondering why people have the chart that they have. is it a punition from god or does god let them evolve on their terms (and create their own chart)? for example, i've got some aspect in my chart that make me be passive and somehow a "victim" of other people (i deny my own needs for others' sake and then feel resentful). why would god let me have that in my chart if it's not in my best interest? well the only sensible answer i can get is that there's a realm, where god dwells that is unmoved by mortal reasoning. that can sound terribly unsensitive from my perspective that god doesn't react emotionnally to my tantrums. but it could also be a blessing because this realm is not affected by my calculation for revenge. this realm is just love and calculation is not love. and that's good to think that nobody can change this reality. that there's some definite rules that cannot be bent with calculation. and that's a fact that i trully appreciate when i see the good side of life

on many occasions, i found myself hurt and imploring god to come and rescue me, to change my situation, to love me. but when i start to feel better, i understand that god showed me how much he loved me by not listening to me at this moment. tough love!

so if you did it, may be you would have in your chart a tendency for self sacrifice or something. and this would then evolve in some other direction according to your future decisions. whereas if you go through your situation now, without resorting to killing yourself, you'll be better equiped (in your next chart) to deal with situations that would have otherwise created this need for suicide. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

but i think it's right to talk about it. or at least there's nothing wrong. probably even in doing it. first because god's realm is not affected by it, and if we accept that our true home is in that realm then your place there is not jeopardised because of your eventual suicide.
secondly, like hurt, like darkness, these only exist to show more dramatically the reality of comfort, of light. in the same logic, if some people became saints is probably becasue in another lifetimne they've been ass-hole otherwise why would thwey have evolved towards sainthood? how wiould they have know sainthood was a possibility? for me, only because once they were not the saint they have become. so for me it's the same for suicide. by contemplating it, what you really see is the beauty of life.

so to answer to your question, i don't agree to the dogma that sees suicide as a step backward but i would say that by not giving up because of problems, you fast forward your evolution whereas by killing yourself you stay where you are and may be create a more difficult situation for your next life.

"Evil forces us to be good.
Goodness allows us to be bad." (from suicide.com)

5-as for your mum, it made me angry. may be because i can very well relate to your situation of a mum that think first of herself before her child. but hey, here again, that can be a great lesson for you. and then you can be thankful to her for teaching you that. however, forgive me to think that she's a b****.

6-in case you forgot my first point, you are an inspiration to me.

7-as i said about the saint, there's nothing wrong in life. everything can be used positively, so you could see your suicide as not wrong and that's fine because you can learn from it (even undirectly). but acts means consequences and suicide now means that you'll end up in the shoes of the ones that are left to deal with the pain you inflicted on them. so, in another lifetime, you'll be as much affected by someone suicide than you affected them. do they deserve to make you suffer even more? have they not hurt you enough? again unmoved said it all.

take care buddy

http://suicidal.com/

posted April 03, 2008 07:00 AM         

26T, BR, Unmoved, HSC, MM, praecipua

{{{{HUGS}}}} to you all;

you are all angels.

My gosh....
It seems we've all been feeling a little strange lately. Are there some sort of cosmic forces stirring things up, I wonder?

26T, we are never alone.
The other night I cried out angrily to God, to the entire spirit world.

The following night I finally made myself go somewhere just to get out of the house- it was the local Spiritualist Church (just out of interest, etc).
Anyway, I received a message, and I had definitely been heard that previous night!
I was so surprised!
My grandad was sad to see me feeling the way I do so often. The message was, I've got to stand up and fight for myself more. Not to let anyone make me feel bad about myself- to think for myself. My cries the previous night had been heard, this was mentioned- much to my surprise! And the answer to that part was- that there is not much they can do, lol- but if he was here he would tell me these things.

Anyway I hope you feel better soon.

posted April 03, 2008 09:11 AM         

The repsonses here are just amazing, i have taken something really good from each one.