posted July 27, 2008 12:49 AM         

The issue here is pretty touchy. Somewhere in our psyche, we think we can get rid of our vulnerability by hiding it or believing we've destroyed it, saying proudly (whether we consciously realize or not that this is what we do) that "I don't need anyone"

But We DO.

And that is the Real issue, I've begun to think. We are sooooo frightened of showing that weak, open, needy, wounded part of ourSelf that it is driving this world mad!
We will never be able to have honesty unless we ourselves are honest! It's so simple, so simple, and that's exactly why it's so hard. Because we think simple is too obvious.

Unless we are as children, we can not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And that means all of us, so we have to 'wait' until EVERYONE is honest for the kingdom to come, because we're All One. That is why All have to feel true happiness before even One does.

posted July 29, 2008 02:32 PM         

but it does need to be someone special to make us happy, I think That is the point... finding that 'special something'....again it comes down to interpretations of the word 'special'

the thing is that everyone IS special
and everyone needs to have someone see that as well as to see that about someone

posted July 30, 2008 07:52 AM         

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

posted July 31, 2008 05:06 AM         

My own thoughts on examples of happiness while alone:

Say you are in solitude, and you accomplish what you set out to accomplish whether it be an invention, or something more practical like learning a skill without any instruction. You could also call it being "proud" or being "excited," but most would say that they found happiness in creating.

posted July 31, 2008 06:44 PM         

As a pscychoanalyst I propose that all priests here by do not condemn Masturbation. That question has a deep unconscious truth hidden in it LOL

posted July 31, 2008 06:46 PM         

I think it is admirable to have idealistic ambitions of self-reliance,
but, the truth is that we are human, and true self-reliance is near impossible.
The Christian Scientists refuse medicines, relying entirely upon their faith to heal them.
As a consequence, many a child has become sick, or even deathly ill,
because of this stoical adherence to ideals which disregard one's mortal limitations.
I suspect that many an inner child has been tortured and starved in much the same way.

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting—
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

~ "Wild Geese" by Mary Oliver

posted July 31, 2008 07:22 PM         

I know what its like to have that overwhelming desire for intimacy,
and to feel that human connection is a basic fundamental need,
like food and sleep, and not something you can just repress,
or seek distractions from among your other personal interests.
When food is scarce, we do not return empty-handed from the hunt,
and attempt to resign ourselves to the scarcity of food;
rather, we forge farther afield, until we find food, or die trying.
You may not literally die in physical form, if you dont find love,
but you may literally watch as part of your soul dies;
after that, you wont feel the pain, or have the potential.

For many people, the need for intimacy is more pressing than it is for most.
Astrologically, this has been demonstrated to correspond to water signs, planets, and houses,
and to the condition of the 7th house; including the planet(s) ruling that house.

I suggest that you need not be ashamed of this requirement,
and that, although your needs may change with time,
developing more disinterest in partnership is not necessarily a sign of maturity.
For some people, it is merely a question of growing into their charts.
Other times, it may be an expression of the natural rythms of life:
When the excavation of one area of life becomes exhausting,
we can always find relief by turning to another area of life.
When we have spent years, even decades, exhausting ourselves upon one area of life,
we may spend years, even decades, finding relief in detachment from that area, --
but, if life were only long enough, we would exhaust that relief as well,
and turn back to the very things we thought we'd learned detachment from.

All this restlessness and insatiability is natural,
and it is likely to persist, whether it is focused on relationship,
or on any of a variety of aspects in your life.
Finding your soul mate will, most likely,
serve to divert that restlessness into other aspects of your life,
but, it is also true that the right person, like the right environment,
can do wonders for you on a variety of levels.
Learning to reconnect with yourself, to cultivate self-friendship,
and to tap into your own hidden resources, can also help,
but there is nothing that will entirely satisfy you, as a human being.
Though it may be a spiritual truth, that all we require is within us,
it is no easier or speedier a process to find it within than without,
and both time and effort appear to be requirements for all good things.

Furthermore, I doubt there is anything more effective than relationships
in bringing us to a greater awareness of ourselves,
and of all that lies hidden within ourselves.
Giving our power away to another is just another means by which
we come to see ourselves, and our own needs, more clearly.
Years in meditation may not bring the self-clarity that comes with a broken heart.

Remember,
the definition of codependency is not neediness, but,
an obsession with controling the behaviors of another person.
Longing itself is not a defect, but a source of potentiality;
like praecipua said, the depth of your longing equals the depth of your love.
What you desire is that deeply meaningful connection,
without which you would be drastically unhappy and unfulfilled.
If anyone imagines that they can experience such a connection,
without experiencing a corresponding pain in its absence,
they are fooling themselves, and they dont understand the basic truth,
that, in this universe of ours, what goes up, must come down.
We all need to decide whether we want that high and low,
or if we prefer some even-keeled, uneventful and unimpressive calm.

As Nietzsche expressed it,
"whosoever said yes to a single joy,
said yes to all the woes in all the worlds,"
(or something like that; I'm paraphrasing from memory).
Its called Life, and you either want it or you dont.
You take all the tears and pains and all the joys, in their season.
Does it mean that you wont lament when you lose something?
Of course not. You will lament,
and wish you'd never valued a thing that could be lost.
But all things that can be valued can be lost,
and there is a price for every joy under the sun.
Some may tell you to cling to yourself, because others come and go,
but you yourself will also be lost, and the loss will be greater,
if you have spent greater time and energy on yourself.

Ultimately, it is about a frequency.
Other people are just carriers of frequencies.
And, although all frequencies exist within ourselves,
we may indeed require the presence of another,
in order to remind, and attune us.

In some spiritual traditions,
it is believed that the presence of a guru is necessary
in order to awaken the divine potential within.
But the Guru is actually just a carrier of that frequency,
and, if you come in contact with the guru,
it is because you "had it coming", karmically.

In hermetic science, there is something called a mumia,
which is any substance serving as the vehicle for another, more subtle substance.
So, when you get a vaccine, the fluid is a mumia for the virus.
When you inhale the fragrance of a rose,
it is the mumia for the spiritual vibration of the rose.
When you are kissed by the one you love,
the kiss is the mumia for the love it imparts.

Hermetic scientists believed that no substance could be transmitted
unless it is accompanied by a mumia which is suited to it.
I speculate that the cure for one kind of longing,
is the presence of a corresponding kind of love,
and that, in order for this love to be transmitted,
what is necessary is the presence of a mumia, or carrier of that love.

It seems to me that the outer world reflects the inner,
no less than the inner world reflects the outer,
and that the outer presence, or arrival, of a given carrier,
corresponds directly to an inner attunement to that karma,
which, according to the instance, may be loving or not.

Whether you search the world, or your own heart, makes no difference.
The world is just a representation of our inner workings,
and its original purpose is to make us visible to ourselves.
But, if the world, as symbol, is too confusing,
we may choose to seek within ourselves instead.
Still, I think that there is no difference,
and this is, ultimately, what we discover.

_______________________________________________________

posted August 01, 2008 06:58 AM         

Happiness may come from people, but so can great Unhappiness.

posted August 01, 2008 08:17 AM         

Koiflower, I hear you about animals. Have you ever met a Tonkinese? Welcome to LL btw, I don't think we've met.

posted August 01, 2008 02:54 PM         

I am saying there is no essential, objective difference between without and within,
but, that the difference exists according to the subjective disposition of the individual.
We are all different, and some of us find ourselves in the world, and some of us find the world within,
so, it is, in a sense, different, but the same. I hope that clarifies my view somewhat.

posted August 01, 2008 02:57 PM         

"The Bowl chart occurs when the planets occupy half of the horoscope wheel. People with a Bowl shaped chart can be just as stubborn as those with a Bundle. The difference is that while Bundle people seem self-contained in their own little world, Bowl folks are very aware of others and frequently try to compel recognition. In other words, when two thirds of the wheel is empty, you don’t care. When one half is empty, it seems to give painful recognition that something is missing, that there is an area of existence from which they are excluded, and the entire life may be spent trying to fill that void. This is why those with Bowl horoscopes frequently seem to be on a mission. And they do have a tendency to get involved in causes."

posted August 02, 2008 04:02 AM         

I love Oriental cats! I rescued a Siamese and had the privilege of having her for 5 years. She taught me about Love and I think she saved my life as well. Her name was Sisi, an anagram of Isis, the mother goddess.

posted August 02, 2008 07:32 AM         

I remember that I posted this article a while back about this series regarding these tribesmen who came to visit the UK. I will find the link. The conclusion of it all was that "a community spirit is the true way to happiness".

I just got back from a short camping trip, just a small group of people who met up from another forum. I felt I was free to just completely be myself around these people. The atmosphere just felt great. I didn't want to leave or go back, except to be with my boys again who I missed a great deal.

For a long time, I have felt that I don't really fit in, in this world. Ever since I was very young I have always wanted to run off and live a native way of life, each time I saw a documentary about such peoples on the TV. No-one around could ever understand my feelings or shared my points of view. They just took me as an eccentric.

I know I am not alone in these kind of feelings, of feeling alone and different but that there are somehow others out there who feel similar, others I need to be with but cannot get to.

I just want to run away in a caravan or build a teepee, to be in a community of others who simply want to live to enjoy the company of each other and of nature, of living peacefully and respectfully with nature, of pursuing spiritual matters and acquiring spiritual wisdom.....

I have been feeling so disconnected ever since I have got back. I wish I had others around me physically to communicate the things which really matter to me with. I can get along with anybody, but that isn't the same as being free to truly be myself. Only when I am free to do so do I feel that I am not alone. I feel I need to be a PART of something.

I hope that the uni-verse won't be too hard on me in making me wait for the comfort of companionship.

posted August 02, 2008 08:10 AM         

I agree with most that we don't need others for our happiness. You first have to find your own bliss within. Then you can honestly share with others. Otherwise you will just be faking it as you have been doing all along other things like love, anger etc. we are all just parrots and hypocrites LOL

"alone" means all in one. you have to become alone first. No other way to experience this oneness.

posted August 02, 2008 08:18 AM         

Jesus said "Won't you watch?"..although the context was different when he said that, but he is definitely another great buddha. there are many of his words that i find same as what buddha had used.

posted August 02, 2008 08:41 AM         

That's all I felt like saying for now.

I know where you're coming from Listentotrees. I would love to live in a community that was self-sufficient away from the hostilities of our society.

posted August 02, 2008 08:48 AM         

yeah a localized implosion is required.
thats the technical word LOL