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Author Topic:   Karma question
PhoenixFire
Knowflake

Posts: 26
From: The Crossing
Registered: Jun 2009

posted June 28, 2010 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhoenixFire     Edit/Delete Message
Hi all,


I am returning to lindland after a couple of years under a new name, and am glad to be here again. I skimmed through a fewof the UC forum's karma threads and didn't quite find what I wassearching for, which is the reason for this thread.

I am a very sensitive empath with a Pisces Moon who frequently picks up emotions from others, and is deeply impacted by stories of human tragedies. I think this is both a blessing and a curse, as it helps me to be more in tune with those around me but the emotions sometimes overwhelm me.

A few nights ago, I was forwarded a video memoir for baby Brianna Lopez of NM who was abused her entire 5 months of life and murdered by her own father & uncle. The abuse this innocent baby suffered is horrible, and even now two days later I find myself incredibly sad everytime I think about how much pain she was in. This is where my questions on Karma come in.

I do not understand the concept of Karma as being applied in a case with an innocent child. If one incarnates into this world to balance out Karma and picks out life lessons, then the suffering of innocent victims is necessary to fulfill Karmic ties???? In this case the poor child is no longer on this world to forgive the monsterous parents and sever these bonds...so what happens to her poor little soul?

I want to believe she is indeed in a better place and free of those who hurt her, and am really confused about this whole view of Karma. I do not know if I can really accept that an innocent child would have to suffer for spiritual reasons.

Thank you for reading, your thoughts are appreciated, and also if you have good advice on coping for empahtics that would really help too.


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iQ
Knowflake

Posts: 1700
From: Chennai, India
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 29, 2010 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
These cases do not belong to 3D Karma, but 4D "Meta Karma". Lets say a group of Star Beings have knocked off an innocent nation in an innocent 3D planet like Earth. Being 4D, they are not answerable for their actions. They can do what they wish BUT the negative actions do mean that they cannot Ascend to 5D level.
To alleviate this crime done in a non-karmic state, they will have to pay back suffering they caused with intensity. Earth has enough satanic, deranged psychopaths to grant them their wish. These psychopaths with a huge Draco Reptilian DNA component have collectively taken a decision NOT to Ascend, they love the void/dark etc and will choose this for eternity than do good or behave with compassion. Its like a vampires love for the taste of blood.

As far as we on 3D are concerned, the baby suffered and sacrificed its precious life to awaken us, to make us feel enormous compassion and to make us ask, what are we doing for the safety of babies/children world over? If after these incidents, we do not take any step to safe guard babies from abusers and satanists by being in denial of their existence or choose to hiding behind science and scientists [many elite doctors , lawyers, freemasons and businessmen of repute are secretly child abusing reptilian satanists who have killed hundreds of thousands of babes/children to come up the dark occult ladder, just check the total number of missing children in N America, you will be shocked.], then we have collectively created negative karma and judged ourselves into suffering the consequences of apathy.

We can start by mentally wishing/willing/visualization protction on our kids, neighbours kids, neighbourhood kids, on every pregnant womb we see etc. With enough mind force, I hope at least the next generation can melt the hands of the illuminati satanist before the beast grabs a child to abuse.

We must also take gestures like avoiding veal. Protecting the kids of lower consciousness animals automatically adds protection to human kids from higher consciousness vampires/reptilian hybrids.

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

Readings

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PhoenixFire
Knowflake

Posts: 26
From: The Crossing
Registered: Jun 2009

posted June 29, 2010 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhoenixFire     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you so much for your reply and insight. I have been praying for the soul of this little baby and all the children of the world. As disturbing and painful as the tragedy is, I do not want to forget the impact it has had on my heart. It hurts every time I imagine the suffering she endured, and I look to the heavens and hope she is indeed in a better place now.What imapacts me the most of this brutal case is that the baby's murder, torment, and violation was suffered at the hands of her parents and Uncle ): I can not comprehend these dark souls who would hurt their own flesh and blood ):

I am thinking on ways that I can help to advocate for children. On a spiritual level I will continue to pray and envision the world waking up to end the cycles of abuse. On a worldly level I have promised myself not to take the easy way out and turn a blind eye, when abuse and neglect are suspected. I want to take this experience to become a better person and help out where needed, research on child abuse laws, and perhaps become a foster parent in the future.

Thanks again for your reply, it helped me to feel better.

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 46
From: Oz
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 06, 2010 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, Karma is a tricky topic for people who have suffered, and especially at such a young age. I think there are some errors with Buddhist philosophy when I think of examples like this. Other examples are the ego-less self, if you had no ego, would you have a self? The mind/no-mind is similar, without a mind, how can you live in the now? Likewise with Karma. I'm not sure where Dharma fits in, but I think these ideas are flawed. In some senses it applies like what goes around comes around, but in many situations, you will never see evidence of whether people will suffer for their sins, or to the extent of their suffering. Buddhism doesn't seem to leave these to questions as being answered by God, as other religions do, but you don't need to believe in God to know when people should pay for their actions, and yet, if there is no God, then how can we be sure that they will pay? If the abuser became the abused in the next life, for instance, then where is the end? How can anyone win in this situation? Sometimes I think society is as strong as its weakest link, but I think this is too simple too. I can't handle horific details, and I'm glad you didn't put any in your posts. I would not read material or watch videos of suffering, etc. I wouldn't like to say that I like to remain naive to the world and suffering, but more that I can't tolerate knowing about it in detail - even knowing daily that these things occur is a strain. I'm not sure why I watch the news, but increasingly it can be positive, but then you get the murder reports, etc. If we never watched news, would the world be a better place, or would it just seem like one? In any case, I think the picture people have of the world around them helps them form that picture in more detail. The more you use your imagination, the more your images become reality. I've always wanted to help the world, but I think my world is the only one I can truly control (to a degree). I will treat people as well as I can because I believe others will return the favour to still others, etc. Be the change you want to see in the world, etc. I think volunteering is definitely a great way to feel good about the world - or at least - your world.

I hope you can find peace from knowing of this horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to little Brianna, may you shine brighter eternally.

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!)
Check out my free Chaldean Numerology Program based on Star Signs by Linda Goodman.

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mermaid26
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Posts: 535
From: just visiting you know
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 06, 2010 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mermaid26     Edit/Delete Message
"Be the change you want to see in the world, etc. I think volunteering is definitely a great way to feel good about the world - or at least - your world."

Very nicely stated Dean, as I share in this view.
(I do so like your Username, Sesame (sees same as me)... I can't recall if I ever told you that before.

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LEXX
Moderator

Posts: 1842
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 07, 2010 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
PhoenixFire
I do not believe in that kind of Karma.
I feel that who we are reincarnated as and where is mostly a random thing.
It allows for any person to be reincarnated into any RANDOM situation.
IT IS HOW WE LIVE EACH LIFE
no matter what kind of conditions we encounter,
that teaches each of us the most about each other and ourselves.
The suffering as you wrote of that poor child, is highly illogical from a Karmic debt point of view.
If one cannot remember or understand the debt then the lesson is loss, pointless, and utterly cruel.
Such is however the random factor of things, so no one is favored or suffers more than any other in the reincarnation process.
I can see no other reason but random for there being terrible folks who have it all and good folks who struggle.
I do however feel that there is the Karmic Payback Wheel we must each strive to get off of and stay off of.
Here is a link to that subject: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003958.html


------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 07, 2010 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
mermaid26
Very nice little Lexigram of Sesame!
"Sees same as me"
Excellent!

------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
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LEXX
Moderator

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 07, 2010 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
Re-posting some of my thoughts on reincarnation and the Karmic Payback Wheel.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm so if you were a mass murder in previous lives with serious psychotic tendencies dose that mean you are stuck in a murdering rampage rut each time around?

>>>NO!
THAT is NOT a "basic" personality trait.
A physically damaged brain, mental disorder/brain chemistry dysfuction, improper psycho/social conditioning and so forth lead to that type of behaviour. Unless conditions are VERY similar, and even then it may not trigger the person to act thusly. Such conduct is not usually carried through in the next incarnation in exactly the same manner. Such "killer instincts" do/can manifest in other ways. Very determined and aggressive for example. Now not every person in these feilds were previously murderers of course, but these are ways such tendencies can manifest in a current lifetime, to be expressed in healthier more socially acceptable ways:
Highly competitive sports, bodyguards, mercenaries, police, soldier, stock market wizard, car salesmen, race car drivers, head CEOs and so forth. It is the thrill of control of others or self or danger and intensity they need and desire.

How do we know if famous/infamous persons had valid reasons to kill? Not the right thing to do socially, but invaders and conquerors have been doing it for a long time, and is it then justified by Karmic law? How many persons whose families or themselves were slain by invaders in a past incarnation, and then in a current incarnation that person goes on with a vengence to eradicate all persons of that race or culture? HOW would a soul feel about these things, and who would he/she go at with a vengence in another lifetime(s) when the opportunity presented itself for her/him to carry out that anger and sense of violation upon those who hurt her/him before? Where did the violation begin? When does it end? Who will say enough!? No more paybacks!? Some things to ponder.http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm
Which leads us then to the concept of "getting off the wheel of the Karmic payback cycle".
See: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002124.html
It is not a matter of who started the payback cycle, or who the first offenders are; it is a matter of who desires to stop the payback cycles, and who will or will not do so.


------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
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LEXX
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Posts: 1842
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 07, 2010 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
More:
Do not assume who appears as evil is evil. Nor who appears as innocent is innocent.
Firstly I believe hell in the traditional mythos is just that...a mythos.
To continue:
Hitler for example. I am not going to reveal what exactly my research has revealed but I will give out some theories and hypotheticals for you and others to take into consideration.
Ok..
Hitler had it in for the Jews. WHAT IF....
He was of the various peoples the early Jews murdered, raped and pillaged in the long past? Then when the time came, this sickly artist suddenly reached the age he or she was when atrocities were done to his or her family, village, city or society...and there was finally an opportunity for vengence.
Yes the Jews were theoritically innocent in Hitler's time, but not so in the past. These folks shortly after being told "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" went forth and murdered thousands of folks. I did not write that. It is clearly in the old Testament. They also sacrificed their own children, and collected foreskins as war trophies and dowry payments.
For these heinous crimes against their fellow humans, read this please and then tell me if perhaps Hitler was one of the folks in a past life or lives, who was murdered or tortured by the ancient Jews. They were conquerors taking what they saw because they thought their Lord god was giving it to them. The accumulated horrors they inflicted upon fellow humans was as bad or worse than what Hitler did.
Please see: http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm
For such Atrocities as these in gory detail.
Babylon is fallen
David slaughters them
Decapitate them!
Gideon slaughters
God buries them alive
God kills the firstborns!
God sends pestilence
God slaughters blacks
God's threat to kill
Godly head wounds
Godly mass murder
Kill all unbelievers
Kill man, woman, infant
King David's holocaust
Moses' mass murder
Nail his head!
Raping and killing
Shed the blood
Slaughter of innocents
Slay old and young
Stone the woman!
The survivors
Utter destruction, 1
Utter destruction, 2
Washing feet in blood http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm

To continue:
The story of the two women fighting over the baby in King Solomon's day.

Two women, who were living in the same house, each had a child at about the same time. One of the infants died. The conflict began after the woman who lost her baby switched her dead infant with the living infant of the other woman. Both were harlots, there was no father to help make an identification, so the matter was brought before Solomon. What to do? There were no modern-day fingerprints (or footprints) or photographs available; all that Solomon had to work with was human nature. So, Solomon resorted to a ruse with sword that had the effect of revealing the truth.

quote:Then came there two women, that were harlots, unto the king, and stood before him. And the one woman said, O my lord, I and this woman dwell in one house; and I was delivered of a child with her in the house. And it came to pass the third day after that I was delivered, that this woman was delivered also: and we were together; there was no stranger with us in the house, save we two in the house."
"And this woman's child died in the night; because she overlaid it. And she arose at midnight, and took my son from beside me, while thine handmaid slept, and laid it in her bosom, and laid her dead child in my bosom. And when I rose in the morning to give my child suck, behold, it was dead: but when I had considered it in the morning, behold, it was not my son, which I did bear."

"And the other woman said, Nay; but the living is my son, and the dead is thy son. And this said, No; but the dead is thy son, and the living is my son. Thus they spake before the king."

"Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living."

"And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other."

"Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it."

"Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it: she is the mother thereof."

"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." (1 Kings 3:16-28 KJV)


Now I submit to you another theory/hypothetical:
Could any of these modern tragedies involve possibly those same two women of Solomon's time, repeating their fight over a baby?

quote:Baby found alive; woman arrested
Saturday, December 18, 2004 Posted: 3:14 PM EST (2014 GMT)

(CNN) -- Authorities late Friday said a Kansas woman who had a miscarriage earlier this year confessed to strangling a pregnant Missouri woman in her home and then cutting the baby from her womb -- a crime the local sheriff described as the most gruesome he had ever seen.

Lisa Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kansas, was arrested and charged in the kidnapping of the child "resulting in the death of the infant's mother" Bobbie Jo Stinnett, 23, according to an FBI affidavit filed late Friday.

If convicted, Montgomery could face a maximum of life in prison or the death penalty, and a maximum $250,000 fine.

The infant girl has been recovered and was in good condition at Stormont-Vail Regional Medical Center in Topeka.

The girl's father was reunited with her Friday evening, authorities said. She was the couple's first child.

"The baby is fine. The baby is doing great," U.S. Attorney Todd Graves said.

Stinnett was found dead in a pool of blood in her home Thursday afternoon by her mother, who called 911 saying it looked "as though her daughter's stomach had exploded," according to the affidavit.

Crime scene investigators later determined her womb had been cut laterally, the baby removed and the umbilical cord cut, the affidavit said.

"The victim was found with blond hair clenched in her hands," the affidavit says.

Town in shock
The crime shocked Skidmore, a town of about 300 people, with some residents shuttering their doors, saying they no longer felt safe.

"It's very hard for me to accept this," Nodaway County Sheriff Ben Espey told reporters. "Nobody here could ever perceive this taking place -- to have a fetus taken out of someone's womb and then doing an Amber Alert to try to find a child."

The affidavit paints a picture of deceit and premeditation on the part of Montgomery.

It alleges that the woman, using a fictitious name, contacted Stinnett on Wednesday through an Internet chat room about looking at rat terriers the Stinnetts sold over the Internet.

The two agreed to meet Thursday at Stinnett's home. Then, on Thursday afternoon, a neighbor reported seeing a dirty, red pinkish, two-door vehicle -- most likely an import -- outside the Stinnett home.

With a search under way on the ground, computer investigators began talking with Internet providers and were able to trace the fictitious e-mailer to the Montgomery's home, more than 130 miles away.

Authorities immediately began surveillance of the home and saw Montgomery Friday with a "newborn female infant," according to the affidavit
They also noticed a vehicle matching the description of the one seen outside the Stinnett's home. It alleges that the suspect's husband, Kevin, told authorities his wife called him shortly after he arrived home from work Thursday, around 5:15 p.m., saying she had gone shopping in Topeka, went into labor and had a baby.

The husband and the couple's two high-school age children drove to Topeka and met Montgomery in the parking lot of a Long John Silver's restaurant. He, his wife and the child drove home in his pickup truck, and the older children drove his wife's car, a red Toyota Corolla, the affidavit alleges.

Montgomery told her husband the baby was born at a women's clinic in Topeka, but authorities said a subsequent check there revealed no babies were born there Thursday.

Once in custody, the affidavit alleges, Montgomery "confessed to having strangled Stinnett and removing the fetus. Lisa Montgomery further admitted the baby she had was Stinnett's baby and that she had lied to her husband about giving birth to a child."

Espey and Graves said Montgomery had a miscarriage at some point this year, although they would not say how recently it occurred.

Espey told CNN the pregnancy was six months along when the child was lost. Of the possible motive in this case, Espey said, "I think she was probably going to take it because she had lost one through a miscarriage at about six months."

Authorities expressed great relief that the child was recovered alive, and attributed that success to the Amber Alert system.

Authorities learned of the Internet chat room where Montgomery allegedly made contact with Stinnett from a tipster in North Carolina. "We may have not ever recovered this little baby if the Amber Alert system was not put into place," Espey told reporters. "I'm overwhelmed with the fact that we're going to be able to get this baby back."

Sgt. Sheldon Lyon, a spokesman with the Missouri State Highway Patrol, said, "This is a great day for law enforcement in northwest Missouri."

The Internet chat room "Ratter Chatter," a haven for rat terrier lovers in cyberspace, was overwhelmed with responses from its users, many of whom indicated they knew both the victim and suspect in the case.

"I cannot believe how sorrowful I am. They have taken Lisa into custody. I don't know what is worse -- the horrible crime -- or the possibility that it might be Lisa. Someone just shoot me," wrote one user by the name of Jill.

Another user named Teresa wrote, "I am sitting here in shock, not knowing how to break this. I just received a phone call from a reporter in Missouri saying that Bobbie was killed today and her fetus stolen! I am absolutely horrified!"

Skidmore was the subject of intense media attention in 1981, when town bully Ken Rex McElroy was shot to death in his pickup on the main street in front of more than 40 witnesses. Despite a lengthy investigation, none of the witnesses would identify the killer.

There are other similar cases:


DA: Woman tried to cut baby from neighbor

Friday, October 14, 2005; Posted: 9:51 a.m. EDT (13:51 GMT)
CNN) -- A Pennsylvania woman beat her eight-month pregnant neighbor with a baseball bat before taking her to a remote area and trying to cut out her unborn baby, a district attorney said Thursday.
SEE THE Above link if you wish to read this one in its entireity.

So who are the victims and who are the murderers?
When past lives are added into the equation the reasons for certain horrific actions change...at least in theory.
Oh yes, the victim indeed can be innocent, no past life reason for them to suffer thusly, as in children, I especially feel they are innocent victims. Karmic justice only works if the victim is old enough to understand. A child is not. And I feel adult victims can be innocent of past life crimes. The ones who hurt or kill them just pick at random and for no other reason. So even with Karmic debts and reincarnation taken into account, it is not a case of simple black and white.

So before judging any human as inherently damned or evil or even an innocent victim...look at what may be the Karmic factors at work.
The exceptions I feel are most commonly children or young folks. Though some adults who are victims may be simply random targets.

Just some theories and hypotheticals to consider.

------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
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SunChild
Moderator

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From: Melbourne. Victoria. Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 08, 2010 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message
Lexx what led you to believe it is a "random" thing? ...

You said:

quote:
I do not believe in that kind of Karma.
I feel that who we are reincarnated as and where is mostly a random thing.
It allows for any person to be reincarnated into any RANDOM situation.
...In my experience it's anything but a random occurrence such as "when, where and why"....

Interesting perspectives.

I think our minds will endeavor to make sense of things above and beyond what can be made sense of in this level (density) ~ from a prebirth perspective life may be entirely different than we suppose it to be

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the ideas for creating something beautiful are unlimited - Rachel Weitzova

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iQ
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From: Chennai, India
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 09, 2010 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message
It is impossible to directly prove the randomness or design in matters like reincarnation, we can only go by circumstantial evidence and hints from certain ancient texts [Like Mahabharata] but denial is the strongest emotion in evolved humans. You cannot convince one way or the other, we can only choose the paradigm/belief system that helps raise our vibration.

I absolutely like Lexx's explanation of the repetition of historical "mistakes" due to lack of forgiveness. Ultimately this can explain many terrible sufferings on the planet like genocide.

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hippichick
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posted July 09, 2010 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
Where Karma is concerned, I hold no strong beliefs, but am open to studying and experiencing as I go along.

I read an article not too long ago that karma is more and more coming back at us directly, in these times, rather than lifetimes from now, or lifetimes ago, and I surely have witnessed "instant Karma" (thank you Lennon) in my life.

Basically I think we have to remind ourselves that we live on the earth...not on some sort of perfct society that only Gene Rodenberry could have thought of (Landru!!!) And living on earth, being a human means many things, experiencing the good and the bad of human nature to mention one.

A situation like this could be to awaken us to the evil side of ourselves and the good also.

Karma, who is to say? The perp will get his someway, somehow in the short or long run, and I think Karma as more to do with the energy of a situation than anything.

I also believe that God knows exactly what she is doing and all things are as they should be.

And I am a Pisces sun and too have great empathy and feel everything from everybody. I deal with messed up crap everyday, especially in my job, wondering how somebody could do this to somebody else.

This is just one case, injustices regarding children happen everyday, everywhere. At my ghetto hospital most babies are born addicted (to heroin) mostly and do not stand a chance in life, already physically altered due to their mother's poor choices.

What about the Karma of these mothers?

As Sesame said, this is a tricky question regarding kids, and I think it is a tricky subject in general.

Lexx, excellent post!

blessings

t

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hippichick
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posted July 09, 2010 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
Another thought.

Does the theory of Karma imply that we are separate be-ings?

Or again, energy....send out a particular energy and it will come back (thrice fold as the Wiccans say.)

But I believe we are all connected, so doing harm to another we are only doing harm to everybody else, including ourselves.

More of an impersonal view of Karma, rather than one to one.

I have also seen instant Karma, potentially, in action with the players involved not specific to the situation, meaning the energy dealt comes back in another form to the dealer not from the dealee.

This "belief" of mine has kept my Scorp asc reigned in, at times!

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