posted January 18, 2011 10:58 AM            

What about the consensus reality?

How does it all fit in?

posted January 18, 2011 04:57 PM            

But if you mean you attract what you desire in a non materialistic way, eventually things will line up, eventually, through faith and never giving up! I believe dreams do come true, keeping the faith is important, not letting things get you down - (((for too long!)))
Stand back up and never stop fighting.
Be truthful in your own desires.
Work toward the things you want...because ultimately it is you that is creating the effects of what you are setting out. And the spiritual forces surround you.... God's Love is with you.
I don't believe things just turn up and the universe is a catalogue for our desires, like Ahriman would have someone believe.

posted January 20, 2011 04:41 AM            

If an animal is tortured, is it karma?

posted January 20, 2011 05:07 AM            

I personally think that it could be an individual's journey to answer this question for her/himself.
I don't think it should ever be put to the individual as a question for them to answer, but one that they arrive at willingly. That is why I would never bring the idea of karma to a victim unless they initiated the discussion and I would be very careful in keeping that person safe throughout the discussion.

Perhaps one way of telling if it is karma or not is how obsessive the perpetrator is with the victim, and if a pattern occurs between them... Even then in this instance, isn't it likely that a soul who abused another soul in a past life could do the same again in a present and that there could be a recurring pattern of this throughout lifetimes?
I don't think that a victim in one lifetime equals an abuser in another.
There are too many possibilites for anyone to speculate and we can never be certain.

posted January 21, 2011 06:01 AM            

...........................................

Perhaps it is this that makes it extremely worthwhile and essential even to be at someone's bedside upon their dying, to help them find moments of love and peace before they die.

posted January 21, 2011 02:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by listenstotrees:
Ok....a question that has been on my mind lately......
If a child is raped, is it karma?

If an animal is tortured, is it karma?

Or does the belief in karma help us to look away from these things rather than be tormented by the fact they exist?

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posted January 21, 2011 02:44 PM            

quote:

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Or does the belief in karma help us to look away from these things rather than be tormented by the fact they exist?

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answering this question means wondering if karma is an excuse, a reason for a situation.

I do not think this view is enriching. what if it is? and if it is not?

if it is, you cannot have any power over anything. you don't need free will, cause you cannot use it, remember, everything is karma. so your every decision are karmic. if you decide to take a bath now or later in 10 min, it's karmic. if you prefer to buy cheddar or stilton at the grocery, it's karma. I suppose the marketing companies will be disapointed.

if you answer no, karma is not the only reason behind a situation, then you have many explanation for a situation. may be too many, and emptiness is scary for most of the people, they need to fill what seems to them as empty by something. why not try karma???

will I write more ????

or will I decide to stop right there???

is it my choice ???

or is it karma???

take a situation, a car accident:

take someone who's just got a driving licence. mum and dad bought him a car, because dad had a raise by his boss who sold plenty of new Iphone since the world market of this things is booming.

the boy takes his new car and go to meet his friends at the pub. the pub is closed because a new kitchen was installed since the owner won at the lottery.

the boy must travel 1/2 hour more to go and meet his friends. on the way his car brakes down. too much heat in the engine. he stops. on the side of the road, there is a fields with blooming flowers. it's sunset. the sky is alive in fabulous colours. the boy has an extatic moment.

do you think the owner of the pub won the lottery few days ago for only for the boy to have this extatic moment? and the market of IPHONE has been bomming in the last couple of years for that precise moment?

is this how karma works?

I supoose the misunderstanding in your questioning, and I say that with all due respect I owe you dear LTT, the misunderstanding is deeper. what is karma? retribution? payback? good or bad, but a "consequence" ??

or is karma an "action" that we decide every moment ? whatever the consequence, the focus is not on the consequence, but on the source, on the "action" taken. the fire sign, are very much in the moment, they forgive and move on more than other sign, they don't forget but they move on. I think karma is close to this idea, it is about "how" do I use my "action" "NOW".

to sum up my view, karma is not a passive and past tense ( ex: to be given/ to be sung / to be ... ) but it is an active and present, even future tense (to be giving / to be singing / to be doing ... now )

posted January 21, 2011 05:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
that is a very simplistic questioning. almost childish.

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I would disagree, I believe that LTT was distilling the questions to allow people to respond like you did pire. It is very honest of her.

I also believe that we can only attempt to understand our own karma, and no ones elses to a degree closest or beyond our own. Did you know different Races have their own Karma too? On a personal basis I am still rather hurt by Karma, and what goes on in the world especially toward children and animals, I am coming from a different perspective, I would encourage this reading (see link) ~ as we barely understand nutrition, we barely understand Karma, we really don't know jack. We are infants, I promise you that, when we are 90 we may look back and see this, research via anthroposophy can at least offer the right light, it is a torch that highlights the correct passage, if it's details you want ~ http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords =steiner+karma&x=0&y=0

My search has only begun. I realise I have not much understanding.

posted January 21, 2011 10:00 PM            

These past 2 weeks, I witnessed more than half of my colleagues at work lose their job due to a corporate acquisition (we got bought out). Why was I spared from it while others were not? Was it because I knew it was coming and prepared for it by sending out my intention that I be protected? Perhaps. Did some of these people who lost their jobs implicitly create the scenario by dreading coming to work every-day and hating their jobs. Maybe. It could the Universe's way of pushing people to evaluate their work and decide whether they want to continue what they are doing or pursue something that actually makes them happy and motivated.

posted January 22, 2011 04:41 AM            

If we believe karma exists, then it must apply to anything with a soul, anything that suffers while on this planet. All creatures suffer. The idea we may reincarnate as animals doesn't resonate somehow. Animals are not capable of cruel calculated torture in the way humans are....so I wonder, therefore, how on earth did they make the karma to deserve some of the fates we humans inflict on them? One only has to research factory farming, animal testing, or watch the film online called "Earthlings" to know about the kind of cruelties I am referring to.

Likewise, if animals who suffer abuse are innocent, maybe children are.

My other half suffered severe sexual abuse as a child from the age of 3 until the age of 7. Was told over and over that it was happening to him because he is a bad person.

No.

I don't believe in karma.

I don't believe in free will, in the way most think of it.

The idea we are not good enough, are full of sin, will go to hell, or have bad things happening to us because of bad karma etc....are just illusions, demonic matrixes for the mind that will control us until we chose to let go of them.

Is the toddler who is being tortured/ raped being abused because they are bad? No, my heart says NO. That is not why.

Is the animal who is living a hellish existence in a factory farm suffering such a life because they did something bad in a previous life? It doesn't make sense. What could possibly be gained from their suffering?

What is gained from suffering?????????????

WHAT?

Does anyone remember near the end of the movie "The Crow" where he says to the villain "here....there's something I have I want to give to you....I don't want it any more" then places his hands on the villain's head, giving him all the painful memories of losing his partner after the villain and his people killed her, etc. The villain screams because he is overwhelmed by such painful experiences being transferred to him all at once and so intensely, and he falls.

There is movie called "Powder" in which this young albino man/ teenager transfers the pain of a dying deer to the man who shot her, who is so affected by the experience that he never touches a gun again.

My point is, surely there are better ways to learn than endlessly reincarnating into situations in which we suffer for past actions, but have no clue as to why.

I'm not going to believe in things any more.
I need to see evidence.

I guess I was curious to see how many people had experience of the LoA working.

posted January 22, 2011 04:57 AM            

It really is a disturbing to think that people entertain such thoughts about a child who was inflicted trauma because of what they did to someone else in a past life. And even IF they did inflict trauma on a young child in their past life, how would being a victim and being traumatized again solve the issue? Of course it wouldn't, and I think we would be far off the truth there too.

So, I would really love to see these lines of thoughts carried through as far as they can go- where are you going with this LTT? I really want to see. Your sensitivity adds weight to all this. Thank you

posted January 22, 2011 05:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SunChild:
LTT I think that's brilliant and your questions are like a spotlight on the void where the answers should be.

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quote:

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It really is a disturbing to think that people entertain such thoughts about a child who was inflicted trauma because of what they did to someone else in a past life. And even IF they did inflict trauma on a young child in their past life, how would being a victim and being traumatized again solve the issue? Of course it wouldn't, and I think we would be far off the truth there too.

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quote:

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So, I would really love to see these lines of thoughts carried through as far as they can go- where are you going with this LTT? I really want to see. Your sensitivity adds weight to all this. Thank you

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posted January 22, 2011 05:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SunChild:
So, I would really love to see these lines of thoughts carried through as far as they can go- where are you going with this LTT? I really want to see.

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As for karma....something like that may exist but I'm not sure how it works. Possibly something like this: http://forevernow.wordpress.com/mylaw/

quote:

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You are your own Devil, you are your own God
You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
And no one can save you from Error or Sin
Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.

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posted January 22, 2011 05:53 AM            

There are many levels of Karma. There are Dimensions involved as well. And there are Sadistic 4th D beings named Archons for whom "Eye for an Eye, rape for a rape, murder for a murder" makes perfect sense. Here is how the "System" works:

1. If a child is raped, how does karma play out:
Ans: a) If the child raped and killed others in its past lifeline as a barbarian or billionaire tycoon, it is given freewill choices by the Archons like: Exist in an environment where there is a chance of suffering, or suffer that exact torment in the lower Astral, and then move on. The lower Astral is made rather scary by the Archons, hence not everyone will choose that option. Reincarnation gives some escape choices but the unpunished tag will attract abusers. If the victim of the past lifeline [reborn as a potential abuser] starts forgiving, the negative karmic values keep reducing, and hence the probability of suffering reduces till it totally stops.

If the past life victim abuses the child, the child's karmic debts are complete, the next incarnation can attain a dimensional improvement. Hence, there is total freewill in deciding how to balance the karmic debts between both perpetrator and victim. But the ultimate gainer is the Archon. Archons keep gaining from the emotional detritus of karmic to and fro revenge acts till the people involved decide to get off the karmic wheel and go into 4th D.
One victim has to stop choosing revenge or the original sinner has to accept going through a purge of fire to forgive himself the original guilt. This is the only way out of the Archon's clutches.

2. LOA: This works from the 4th Dimensional Level too. Your State of Mind that is given the maximum conscious attention helps set up the Energy of the Experiences in 3D.
You keep a Vision Board of a Red Porsche and do not do the positive karmic acts to justify the luxury, then you will attract a magazine that has a picture of the Red Porsche. If you have a huge good karma bank, you will attract the actual Red Porsche, and then lose it if you do a DVD claiming how an LOA Guru helped you attract a Red Porsche in 2 minutes.

Study all the 7 Hermetic Laws and you will understand Karma and LOA on a very deep level.

Karma has so much intricacy. You have race karma [A factor in Holocausts and Genocides], karma of Alien Ancestors [Arab-Osrael Conflict in one level], Karma of Physical Ancestors [family curses], Karma of the sex partner taken in with unprotected sex [Ask Tiger Woods for proof], Karma of verbal oaths, Karma of belief systems... Republican/Democrat Supporters will share the karmic debts of their part leaders, Authorities who uphold draconian laws will suffer the consequences of the curses from the victims even if they do not actually report or punish the innocent. The Mental Support is enough. Why does Pakistan suffer so much? The Silent majority mentally supports the Islamists, they do not condemn the Mullahs and hence share the curses of the innocents tortured by the Islamists.

Every thought and deed in the 3D World has a Karmic Debt, plus [credit] or minus [debt].

If I laugh at XYZ's rants, I attract a negative karmic debt. If I pray that he gets some wisdom, I attract a positive karmic credit, irrespective of whether he gains wisdom or not. If I eat meat, I get 1/7th the karma of hurting an animal.
The breeder, butcher, trader, transporter, cook, restaurant and customer. All of us share the karma. If I buy a chemical company share that does nothing for environment, then the profit on selling that attracts a percentage of negative karmic debts.
Everyone who enjoyed profits from Dow Chemicals after 1985 are in for a rude shock someday.

Then there is Karmic Manipulation from the 4th Dimension Level. Known by Occult Masters to escape the traps of karma.
If you do not Self-Identify with an action, and act with Trance-State thought of your Deity, there is no 3D karma to suffer. Only 4D Karma, which takes millenia to resolve amicably.

There are other tricks too. Lets say I provoke someone to think negatively about me. I gain karmic credits for every negative thought in their head. To double the credits, all I have to do is genuinely find ways to praise the person without his or her knowledge, as this exponentially gives me the benefit of praising one who hates wrongfully.

This is why some Hermetic Master may point to a very intelligent type of person and liken him to a fool. The fool helps others gain karmic credits at his expense by being in 3D yet being rude, angry and judgemental [in spite of sheer brilliance]. The fool will even point to others in 4D as judgemental, and offer them more karmic credits.

These are just a few snippets on Karma. There is tons more of living wisdom in "Aghora 3: The Law of Karma" by Robert Svoboda.

Read thoroughly, think through thoroughly, and then question the wisdom of Karma, else we end up creating more karmic debts.

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted January 22, 2011 06:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
Karma does make perfect sense. However, you have to understand all the Universal Laws to understand Karma in actuality.
Childishness is in the stubborn refusal to accept wisdom when it is given.

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Perhaps questioning everything takes some guts.