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Author Topic:   Jesus in your face...
ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 16, 2005 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

I hope this creates a hyperlink for ya, if not I will try again.

I came across this article the other day, and thought you guys might like it. Although it does support my thinking all along, it is not about me being right, as it is about food for thought. This guy who wrote this is cracking me up!

Have a good read.

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted September 16, 2005 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Ilove,
That was good food for thought,
but one thing
he's saying Jesus talked badly about them, and quotes him,
but the scribes are the one's who wrote the words he's quoting,
so , were they(the Scribes) trying to make him look bad?
Confusing.

Love and Light to ALL

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 16, 2005 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting!
PS.the scribes did not write this...
Most of the NT was written down no earlier than 60AD and as late as 400AD. Then there have been thousands of translations and redactions, changes and so forth in the dozens of different bible versions.
the truth is lost for now.....

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted September 16, 2005 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
I agree Fayte

heavy sigh

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 16, 2005 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks! I have studied much on these matters.
Not an expert....but there is alot of contradictory information out there even in scholarly and theological circles. Still studying.......
Not religious...yet one of my passions.....

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 17, 2005 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
Fayete...I was wondering if the 1000's of translation are all from the same source, or from many different sources? Atleast, as far as you have studied. I have too been studying religions all my life, but have recently started looking at the Bible again, as my sister-in-law is forever preaching to me. Anyway, any websites or books you could recommend would be great. Also, the same web-site has some interpretations on the book of Revelations, if you have time to take a look. You guys were talking about some stuff on the Sylvia prediction thread along this line, and I wondered if you had seen this one before?

lotusheartone...
yeah, i agree with fayete, the scribes did not write the Bible, if they had it would be worse. I really like this Jesus, he really fights the good fight. He doesn't let himself be walked all over.

Thanks to you both...

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 17, 2005 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

Here is the link to that one too...

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LibraSparkle
Knowflake

Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004

posted September 17, 2005 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LibraSparkle     Edit/Delete Message
There is also the theory that Jesus is a myth.

There's a book I read a while ago called, The Christ Conspiracy The Greatest Story Ever Sold.

From the back

quote:
Contrary to popular belief, there was no single man at the genesis of Christianity but many characters rolled into one. The majority of these characters were personifications of the ubiquitous solar myth, whose adventures were well known, as reflected in teh stories of such popular deities as Mirthra, Hercules, Dionysus and many others throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. In reality, the story of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is nearly identical to that of the earlier savior-gods Krishna and Horus. These redeemer tales are similar not because they reflect their actual exploits of a variety of men who did and said identical things, but because they represent the same extremely ancient core of knowledge that revolved around the celestial bodies and natural forces.

In this highly controversial and explosive book, archaeologist, historian, mythologist, and linguist Acharya S marshals an enormous amount of startling evidence to demonstrate that Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religious in order to unify the Roman empire under one state religion. In making such a fabrication, this multinational cabal drew upon a multitude of myths and rituals that already existed long before the Christian era, and reworked them for centuries into the story and religion passed down today.


I know some people will completely reject this notion with an "open mind". That is fine. I'm not interested in converting others and you are entitled to your opinion... AND I'm interested in hearing it.

I would also be interesting in hearing proof of the fact that he DID exist, as long as this proof is not related to any religious books or epistles.

Well... cite all the religious books and epistles you please, they are often nice to read.

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

Posts: 2708
From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted September 17, 2005 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
FANTASTIC reply, Libra Sparkle. I hope to hear from some others, too.

I would also like to check into that book. I'll look for it at the library next time I go.

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sue g
Knowflake

Posts: 8591
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004

posted September 17, 2005 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
I agree Libra Sparkle. it is a nice book to read and the man himself sounded like a real gem.......but it might all be a myth......how do we know.......???

Love to all

Sue G xxx

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted September 17, 2005 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
LibraSparkle

THANK-YOU
that's great!

Love and Light to ALL

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 17, 2005 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
Libra Sparkle thanks for adding. I am going to look for the book on ebay. I guess I will have to let you know how I feel after I read it, but just that incerpt is very curious.

I believe we live many lives and it is very possible to have similar goals along the way. I know Buddha told his people he would be back. The Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard told his people, he would be moving on to another place, but with the same goal. So, just going by my intuition, I think Jesus did walk the earth.

thanks to all who are interested, and I think if anyone else has other theories on Jesus besides my obvious Biblical, lets do it!

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sue g
Knowflake

Posts: 8591
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004

posted September 17, 2005 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
My dad dont believe in God but he does believe a man called Jesus did exist and he was like this great prophet, or the messiah as he refers to him. He (my dad) was/is free thinking he cannot stand religion.....says its hypocritical, but he still does quote Jesus's words......especially the stuff about L O V E.

I am glad he was more free with his thinking cos my mom was so rigid......believed it word for word.....I felt it was almost like a cructch for her....something to lean on. Its sad tho, cos now she is old, she doesnt have any comfort either from the bible or from her Jesus.....strange that isnt it?? Its as though, she didnt have her own identity, but just lived it thro the teachings of others.......maybe there is a need to flock together for some......I never felt this, more like my old man ha ha !!!

I am not sure about Jesus, but if he was around and the portrayal of him was correct.....he definatley was the love man wasnt he....and he must have been cool, cos he had long hair !!!

Love to all

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 17, 2005 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
Sue G....My Grams is getting in her 80's now, and she is going thru the same as your mom. She has wavering faith. My family is a split too. My Gramp was a holy roler(her husband) until he started questioning interpretation in the Bible, and then he split. Her kids got into Scientolgy, a lot of them believe in past lives. So all her life she has heard both, and she never really formed her own style of faith. It must be soo much easier to just KNOW, but I have never been that blessed. Anyway, she is very lonely and just not herself anymore, wonder where she is??

I always go around quoting Jesus's words too, I'm not like a holy roler, but his words pull a heart string. I always get so side-tracked though. Why can't the writing be in black and white, so we all KNEW? P.S. Dave Mustaine just played near my town last month, I couldn't go cause I had no babysitter. He has always been my man. See what I mean, its like wavering between two totally different worlds.

My mom sent me a card that had a beautiful picture of a fairy dancing in the woods, and she wrote inside: "Would we have any fun if life was this happy and peaceful?" I was cracking up, cause she wavers in the middle too. Must run in familys too.

Rambling on, but I enjoy your views Sue G. makes me feel much happier.

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LibraSparkle
Knowflake

Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004

posted September 17, 2005 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LibraSparkle     Edit/Delete Message
Wow... I totally expected to be flamed.

Nice.

Here's it's link at Amazon

Here's it's link at Half.com


There are loads of little snippets I could share. Right now I'm off to watch The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I'll come back later and post some more interesting stuff from the book.

Golly... I you guys!

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sue g
Knowflake

Posts: 8591
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004

posted September 17, 2005 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks ILove

And Libra.....I love you guys too....my cyber family xxx

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 17, 2005 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
www.tombofjesus.com

Just saw The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Excellent!
Read anything by Shelby Spong concerning the bible and christianity. Very insightful!
I still do not think anyone has got the story right as of yet. Pieces are somewhat right....but they are still caught up in the dogmatic/deific viewpoint.....
I will list his books next post.
I tried to get onto this matter of the Jesus myth before but I think I was upsetting people....I will continue as long as no one gets mad. I am only relaying information for the most part...with brief commentary as to what I think is true...false or partially right or wrong.

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 17, 2005 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Here are a few. Alot of Spong and some others.
I know of more if anyone wants to know.


The Sins of Scripture : Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love by John Shelby Spong
............................................
Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism : A Bishop Rethinks the Meaning
of
Scripture by John Shelby Spong (Paperback)
..........................................
God in Us : A Case for Christian Humanism (Societas) by John Shelby Spong
(Foreword), Anthony Freeman (Paperback - July 2001)
..........................................
A New Christianity for a New World : Why Traditional Faith is Dying &
How a New Faith is Being Born by John Shelby Spong (Paperback)
..........................................
Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible with Jewish Eyes: Freeing
Jesus
from 2,000 Years of Misunderstanding by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
Beyond Moralism: A Contemporary View of the Ten Commandments by John Shelby
Spong, Denise G. Haines
...........................................
Why Christianity Must Change or Die: A Bishop Speaks to Believers In
Exile
by John Shelby Spong (Paperback)
. Excerpt from Back Cover "... Aliud of God "This is Spong's manifesto,
offering ... Bishop John Shelby Spong integrates his often controversial
..."
See more references to shelby spong in this book.
............................................
The Living Commandments by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
Easter Moment by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
Dialogue: In search of Jewish-Christian understanding by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
Here I Stand : My Struggle for a Christianity of Integrity, Love, and
Equality by John Shelby Spong (Paperback)
...........................................
Resurrection : Myth or Reality? by John Shelby Spong (Paperback)
...........................................
Bishop Spong Speaks Out: Sept. 11 and Death of God, the Father / the
Bishop & the Cosmologist (Ideas) by John Spong Shelby (Audio CD)
..........................................
Rescuing the Bible from John Shelby Spong by Michael Bott, Jonathan
Sarfati (Paperback - August 2004)
..........................................
Born of a Woman
by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
This Hebrew Lord
by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
Reinterpreting God?
Retired Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong continues
to shake up Christians with a radical theology.(FLORIDA WEST) : An article
from: Sarasota Herald Tribune [HTML]
..........................................
Into the Whirlwind: The Future of the Church by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
Honest Prayer
by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
The Bishop's Voice : Selected Essays, 1979-1999 by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
Living in Sin: A Bishop Rethinks Human Sexuality by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
Christpower
by John Shelby Spong
..........................................
Why I believe in life after death by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
This Hebrew Lord by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
Roman Catholic-Anglican ecumenical union: A cause I can no longer support
by John Shelby Spong
...........................................
The Sixteen Crucified Saviors
By K.Graves...
...........................................
Saving the Savior : Did Christ Survive the Crucifixion?
by Abubakr Ben Ishmael Salahuddin

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 17, 2005 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
Do you guys get the feeling that this
John Shelby Spong was/is living in a different time zone than us? Quite an impressive collection of work!! I want one of his books now! Not sure which one to start with. Thanks fayete

LibraSparkle...I got your links, thanks to you too. I'll let ya know.

oh, fayete...could you please share with us! I think we all realize how diverse this subject is, and I would value your insights gained from much study! I have had lots of attention on this for many many years, and would like to start drawing some conclusions of my own. I feel you have something I need to know???!!!

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted September 17, 2005 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
wow, this is great, all this info, maybe you should start a question and answer series.

Love and Light to ALL

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 17, 2005 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
posted some on the other thread...

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LibraSparkle
Knowflake

Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004

posted September 18, 2005 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LibraSparkle     Edit/Delete Message
From The Christ Conspiracy:

quote:
Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was identified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods. He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god who "made men and women to be born again." Budge says, "from the first to last, Osiris was to the Egyptians the god-man who suffered, and died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven. They believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done..."

Osirs's coming was announced by Three Wise Men: the three stars Mintaka, Anilam, and Alnitak in the belt of Orion, which point directly to Osiris's star in the east, Sirius (Sothis), significator of his birth...

Certainly Osiris was prototypical Messiah, as well as a devoured Host. His flesh was eaten from the communion cakes of wheat, the "plant of Truth.:... The cult of Osiris contributed a number of ideas a phrases to the Bible. The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing to Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the "green pastures" and "still waters" of the nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow of the death (the Tuat). The Lord's Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen beginning, "O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven." Amen was also invoked at the end of every prayer.


It goes on to say...

quote:
Osiris's "son" or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:


  • Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

  • His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph")

  • He was of royal descent.

  • At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.

  • He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

  • He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

  • Horus walked on water.

  • His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

  • He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

  • Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

  • He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb and resurrected.

  • He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light,""Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

  • He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichtys", Lamb and Lion.

  • He came to fulfill the Law.

  • Horus was called "the KRST" or "Anointed One."

  • Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."


The author has similar lists of coincidences between the Jesus figure and past saviors and sons of God including:

Adad and Marduk of Assyria, Adonis, Aesclepius, Apollo (who was resurrected at the vernal equinosx as the lamb), Dionysus, Heracles (Hercules) and Zeus of Greece

Alcides of Thebes, divine redeemer born of a virgin around 1200 BCE

Attis of Phrygia

Baal or Bel of Babylon/Phoenicia

Balder and Frey of Scandinavia

Bali of Afghanistan

Beddru of Japan

Buddha and Krishna of India

Chu Chulainn of Ireland

Codom and Deva Tat of Siam

Crite of Chaldea

Dahzbog of the Slavs

Dumuzi of Sumeria

Fo-hi, Lao-Kiun, Tien, and Chang-Ti of China, whose birth was attended by heavenly music, angels and shepherds

Hermes of Egypt/Greece, who was born of the Virgin Maia and called "The Logos" because he was the Messenger or Word of Heavenly Father, Zeus.

Hesus of the Druids and the Gauls

Horus, Osiris and Serapis of Egypt

Indra of Tibet/India

Ieo of China, who was "the great prophet, lawgiver and savior" with 70 disciples

Issa/Isa of Arabia, who was born of the Virgin Mary and was the "Divine Word" of the ancient Arabian Nassara/Nazarenes around 400 BCE

Jao of Nepal

Jupiter/Jove of Rome

Mithra of Persia/India

Odin/Wodin/Woden/Owtan of the Scandinavians

Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece

Quetzalcoatl of Mexico

Auirinius of Rome

Salivahana of southern India, who was a "divine child, born of a virgin, and was the son of a carpenter," himself also being called "the Carpenter," andwhose name or title means "cross-borne" ("Salvation")

Tammuz of Syria, the savior god worshiped in Jerusalem

Thor of the Gauls

Universal Monarch of the Sibyls

Wittoba of the Bilingonese/Telingonese

Zalmoxis of Thrace, the savior who "promised eternal life to guests at his sacramental Last Supper. Thenhe went into the underworld, and rose again on the third day"

Zarthustra/Zoroaster of Persia

Zoar of the Bonzes

quote:
This list does not pretend to be complete, nor is there adequate room here to go into detail of all these mythological characters. It should be noted that, as with Jesus, a number of these characters have been thought of in the past as being historical persons, but today almost none of them are considered as such.

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 18, 2005 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
Oh wow, it is crazy when you go your whole life with a notion that something is the absolute truth, and then all of a sudden you have this type of information. I can't wait to get the book.

I'll let ya know Libra Sparkle, it is so intriguing.

Thanks to everyone!

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ILove
Knowflake

Posts: 178
From: Winter Haven, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 19, 2005 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ILove     Edit/Delete Message
LibraSparkle

I was wondering, which one from the list goes back the farthest in history?

Its wierd, Jesus feels so real to me, part of his appeal. Is it possible that his soul has had many incarnations with the same life goal?

What do you think personally about the book?

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 19, 2005 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
HHHMMMM....just watching and listening...
very interesting...
I apologize no comments I want to air at this time. Except my rants on the other thread. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001649.html

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001649-2.html

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