posted July 25, 2012 05:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
So yes I would say that fear is THE MOST insidious yet EFFECTIVE tool for mind control and it is being used to its hilt by fundamentalists ... of any religion.

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--agreed

fundamentalism anywhere is bad, not just in one particular religion

there are Christian terrorists--yes, even in the US, like the types who protest funerals

posted July 25, 2012 06:41 AM            

The burden of fundamentalism is heavier on the Islamic types than Christian Fundamentalists because there was no religious excuse at all. The Quran is very clear about secularism and encourages it in a Universal context, yet even the close members of the Prophets family were massacred by power hungry elites who constituted the theocratic version of Islam.
Imagine the horrors they perpetrated to other faiths in the medieval ages.

Muslims have to be better than other religions considering the advantages of knowing about earlier faiths, how they went astray etc. The performance considering the advantages on offer is just pathetic.

And even today, I can stand next to a Christian Fundamentalist church in USA and read an Islamic Prayer. I seriously doubt whether a Christian or Hindu will get such priviliges in Saudi Arabia.

Fundamentalist Christians and Staunch Hindus do not prevent Muslims from visiting their holy shrines yet people of other faiths are prevented from entering Mecca. These backward notions have only fueled more hatred of ordinary, peace loving Muslims.

So overall, the objective worst performance award amongst all fundamentalists does go to the Islamic Fundamentalists.

posted July 25, 2012 07:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
Hi Faith,
I understand and agree your views fgrom a Humanitarian context, nobody has the right to kill any innocent, irrespective of his or her faith. I am speaking from a religious standpoint only.

The burden of fundamentalism is heavier on the Islamic types than Christian Fundamentalists because there was no religious excuse at all. The Quran is very clear about secularism and encourages it in a Universal context, yet even the close members of the Prophets family were massacred by power hungry elites who constituted the theocratic version of Islam.
Imagine the horrors they perpetrated to other faiths in the medieval ages.

Muslims have to be better than other religions considering the advantages of knowing about earlier faiths, how they went astray etc. The performance considering the advantages on offer is just pathetic.

And even today, I can stand next to a Christian Fundamentalist church in USA and read an Islamic Prayer. I seriously doubt whether a Christian or Hindu will get such priviliges in Saudi Arabia.

Fundamentalist Christians and Staunch Hindus do not prevent Muslims from visiting their holy shrines yet people of other faiths are prevented from entering Mecca. These backward notions have only fueled more hatred of ordinary, peace loving Muslims.

So overall, the objective worst performance award amongst all fundamentalists does go to the Islamic Fundamentalists.

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The other simple fact is "Would you rather fall from the sky into Iran or Israel? Would you rather fall from the sky into Syria or Israel? Would you rather be a female in Saudi Arabia or Israel?

Would you rather share a space with an Islamic fundamentalist or a Born Again Christian?

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posted July 25, 2012 07:52 AM            

quote:

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So overall, the objective worst performance award amongst all fundamentalists does go to the Islamic Fundamentalists.

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I just disagree. I see Christian fundamentalists in America overwhelmingly supporting genocide in the Middle East, which makes grievances like "Muslims won't let me come to Mecca" seem trifling by comparison.

Edit: I also regard Fundamentalism as a modern concept. Christian fundamentalists of today do things much differently than they did back in the time of the Pilgrims or John Calvin. (Or the Renaissance, if you count Catholics.) But Islam is ever-changing as well and by some accounts it was only "radicalized" a hundred years ago. There is some evidence that radical Islam was fomented by the CIA; carrying it further, the BBC actually aired a documentary claiming al-Qaeda is a CIA invention.

So I'm not sure what actually qualifies as Islamic fundamentalism, or what you mean by it.

With all due respect, iQ, I think you and I are just on completely different wavelengths.

No hard feelings.

posted July 25, 2012 07:54 AM            

quote:

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Would you rather share a space with an Islamic fundamentalist or a Born Again Christian?

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I'd have to know them personally before deciding who I liked better.

posted July 25, 2012 08:01 AM            

Being born and raised a Fundamentalists, I know the inner workings of many denominations. They fear God Almighty and love is left on the back burner. Like any cornered dog , the fear drives them to hate that which they do not know / understand. That hate becomes violent and the fundalmentalist is running lose in society.

Islam and Christians have a bloody history but I agree the Islamic Fundalmentalist is the worst because a society supports them and keeps them functioning.

quote:

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I see Christian fundamentalists in America overwhelmingly supporting genocide in the Middle East,

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That is definetly true Faith. But they don`t act on it. They don`t blow Muslems up or kill them outright. I`m not saying they wouldn`t like a chance to but in the US we have laws against murder and the Fundamentalist Christian is well aware they can support the fanatics and keep their legal hands clean..

Their hate is a death sentence but not for the Muslem. They are dying a slow Spiritual death.

posted July 25, 2012 08:14 AM            

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posted July 25, 2012 08:16 AM            

quote:

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That is definetly true Faith. But they don`t act on it. They don`t blow Muslems up or kill them outright.

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They DO act on it, they join the military, go abroad, and kill. I KNOW some of these people!

Or if they aren't in the military, they wholeheartedly support military action and are calling for attacks on Iran. That's the CHRISTIANS doing it. And it will result in ACTUAL DESTRUCTION just like in Iraq, where some are putting the death count of civilians over a million...not including future death and mutation by depleted uranium.

posted July 25, 2012 08:27 AM            

quote:

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They DO act on it, they join the military, go abroad, and kill. I KNOW some of these people!

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Sad but yes Faith, I agree as well as know some myself.

This is one of the legal maneuvers of fundalmentalist I was speaking of. Hiding behind their God and legal aspects (ie like contributing to say Al-qaeda) a free country like the US affords them.

Again, regardless of their Faith , their spirit is eroding with every hateful thought and deed.

posted July 25, 2012 08:51 AM            

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posted July 25, 2012 09:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Juni
You have a lot of hate in you. For someone who professes to be a Christian, it is the opposite of what you should have imho

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A Wise person once said to me (and I leave it with the hearts here)

The interconnectedness of All is an expression of the singularity embodied in the notion of God. Every fallen tear or shed blood rips the fabric of existence. In this great Unity, the pain of one is the pain of all, the salvation of one is the salvation of all. Likewise, the defilement of Nature is the defilement of all Earth.

posted July 25, 2012 10:05 AM            

I hope my own rant didn't give offense, but as I see it, some things...like the truth... need to be said for the greater good.

posted July 25, 2012 10:52 AM            

I think the thread is fine, 'cause except for one unfair and completely incorrect accusation that Juni is filled with hate, the rest of the thread is a good ongoing discussion on the subject.

The same type of accusations (that Juni was attacking) were made against Juni in this thread--even when no such attack was made.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000438.html

Rather than close the thread and deprive the rest of us of a good informative discussion, I think the person making the accusations can be politely asked to not do so.

And Juni's response to such an accusation is to take the high road, which she has done beautifully in her response.

Who could be a more loving person than that? We show love and hate through our actions and Juni has amply shown love.

posted July 25, 2012 10:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
--agreed

fundamentalism anywhere is bad, not just in one particular religion

there are Christian terrorists--yes, even in the US, like the types who protest funerals

you don't hear about them as much, though

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Regardes, would you mind explaining about the types who protest funerals?

posted July 25, 2012 11:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Juni:
Fundalmentalism definition:

Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to specific theological doctrines usually understood as a reaction against Modernist theology, combined with a vigorous attack on outside threats to their religious culture. . The term has a religious connotation indicating unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.

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This is very helpful in understanding and discerning WHO fundamentalists really are.

posted July 25, 2012 12:43 PM            

An example off the top of my head is Eric Rudolph who bombed not only abortion clinics (and the Olympics!) but also bombed a lesbian club in Atlanta for the Army of God.

I know people who were confronted by those who claimed to be Army of God (same group that bombed that lesbian club in Atlanta) in the parking lot of a lesbian club, too, they were writing down license plates and making death threats, promising that members would pull up behind them and shoot them down as God commanded (and they had the relevant Bible verses) and the deputies who arrived on the scene took them seriously enough that some of those who were threatened were able to get a CCW permit in Southern California (and generally speaking, the cops there won't sell such a permit unless they believe a person's life is genuinely being stalked or hunted by violent individuals).

What's really disturbing is how many of these people who otherwise support hate crime laws and antibullying legislation want to keep gays from having any protection, which is a red flag right there. The scattered instances of outright violence and calling for gays to be locked away in ghettos or prison add more red flags as well as more as when Michael Brown of the American Family Association justified the murder of a gay boy (and having gunned the boy down in front of his class at that). And if that's not all ominous enough, then THIS is showing exactly what they want to happen in the USA as well but realize they can't make it happen overnight as they can in Africa:
http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v24n4/us-christian-right-attack-on-gays-in-africa.html

quote:

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Warren is especially influential on the continent, enjoying close ties to African religious and political leaders. They quote him to justify discrimination against LGBT people, and to support their challenge to U.S. mainline Protestants liberalizing their policies around gay ordination. "Homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right," Warren said during a March-April 2008 visit with African religious and political leaders in Rwanda, Uganda, and Kenya. That quote has reverberated ever since

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quote:

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If only Lively's influence ended there. But a few days later, he met with Ugandan lawmakers and government officials, some of whom would draft parliament's Anti-Homosexuality Act of 2009 the next month. This act would ban LGBT organizing and give the death penalty for gays, though not heterosexuals, who have sex with someone underage or while infected with the HIV/AIDS virus.[3] Lively and the "traditional family values" language of U.S. antigay campaigners echoes through the draft legislation:

"Research indicates that the homosexuality has a variety of negative consequences including higher incidences of violence, sexually transmitted diseases, and use of drugs. The higher incidence of separation and break-up in homosexual relationships also creates a highly unstable environment for children raised by homosexuals through adoption or otherwise, and can have profound psychological consequences on those children. In addition, the promotion of homosexual behavior undermines our traditional family values."

Family Life Network's Langa pushed people at a follow up meeting to stand up for the tougher law against homosexuality for their children's sake, echoing Lively in charging that Ugandan gays and activists were being paid by U.S. gays to recruit schoolchildren into homosexuality.

Amid the utter hysteria, any sense that homosexuality has been in Africa from time immemorial was lost. While hardly embraced, and indeed illegal in many countries, at least LGBT people were not hounded by churches and police alike – until American culture warriors came to Africa. Bishop Christopher Ssenjonyo, one of the most progressive voices on LGBT issues in Uganda, expressed his own concerns about the Americans' role to me in March, "I am sure that these lies will incite public hatred against gays."

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And check out the part that is ironically (psychological projection?) saying it's the gays trying to enslave the world and indoctrinate children:

quote:

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The unsuspecting audience heard Lively promote his book, The Pink Swastika, and his argument that not only are gays seeking to take over the world, but they also threaten society by causing higher rates of divorce, child abuse, and HIV/AIDS. Legalizing homosexuality is on par with accepting "molestation of children or having sex with animals," he said. As Lively puts it, LGBT issues cannot be considered human rights issues. "The people coming to Africa now and advancing the idea that human rights serves the homosexual interests are absolutely wrong," he said. "Many of them are outright liars and they are manipulating history; they are manipulating facts in order to push their political agenda." Lively even tarred abortion rights as "a product of the gay philosophy" meant to promote sexual promiscuity in order to "destroy the family." In sum, he warned, U.S. homosexuals are out to recruit young people into homosexual lifestyles so they must be stopped.

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So much like what the Nazis said about the Jews and what Christians in the past have said about everyone they didn't like before torturing and executing them in the name of Jesus.

And the less directly religious (but still very intertwined with them) have added to the lies as well, like O'Reilly in doing a "fair and balanced" report (just one reason I don't look to FOX for news) that was about equal in character to Rise of a Nation (for the KKK):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXxZdZxp_Lg

One thing I'll add is that there really is an organization called the Pink Pistols (and they did respond to this, though they didn't go far enough IMO) but they're more men than women. And they're not a gang, they're a LGBT group preparing for armed and legal self-defense against gay bashers. As for women carrying pink pistols I've only known STRAIGHT women who liked pink pistols (some of them very conservative and their being mistaken for lesbian gang members is perversely very funny IMO).

I learned of this story because a guy at the shooting range told me to be ready to shoot to kill against any lesbians who tried to rape me and turn me lesbian. That was so mind boggling stupid that I asked him for an explanation for such WTF advice and he told me about it, and so I found it, and also many rebuttals for such (at best) yellow journalism. And the fact that he was prepared to take out lesbians scared me, especially as similar lies from FOX have inspired violence, such as the rampage of Byron Williams. Of course FOX rejects responsibility for such actions. I wonder if they'd reject the similar lies told by other hate groups that also lead to hate crimes as well or if this is just another "we should be held to different standards than everyone else."

And the more power they get, the more people they'll go after (and if history repeats itself, it will end with Christians going after other Christians for being "false" at best, and in literal league with Satan at worst).

posted July 25, 2012 01:24 PM            

I love that you back up everything with loads of info.

Yes this country's under attack all right--by fundamentalist Christians.

And there's a lot of hypocrisy and yes, psychological projection of hate on the innocent (we see it in our daily lives, much like what happened earlier on this thread too--one member projecting her own hate on to another innocent member).

"People are shot, bombed, and killed in other ways in the United States in the name of Jesus (and I'm not counting the insane, only the true believers)."

"as Christian slaughtered Christian in the most mind boggling cruel ways"

Yes, history has shown this to be a fact!

This ...

"But that distresses many people who are Christians so they don't want to hear it and will cause them to change the channel if someone reports on it too much which means a loss of advertising dollars so it creates in informal censorship that even when a story is broadcasted it's quickly done away with and forgotten."

And this ...

"the Christian Right has moved to get Jefferson removed from public education, and they've actually made progress in doing that (they were brilliant to do it in Texas first when they could've chosen other states, as by doing it to Texas schools across the country that can't afford extra to get a different history book will save money by getting the same book the Christian Right made)."

is brilliant observation on your part!!

So, in essence, it's psychological warfare that is going on in the US between the fundamentalists and the non-fundamentalists. Our very own home grown Al Qaida, if you will.

The only reason that the US Christian fundamentalists don't outwardly behave like the suicide bombers setting off bombs in crowded places, is because there are laws in this country that prevent that from happening.

But that aside, they're doing everything they can do legally to achieve the same end result--control and domination, through brain washing of those who have the natural propensity to not be able to reason.

posted July 25, 2012 01:39 PM            

quote:

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The only reason that the US Christian fundamentalists don't outwardly behave like the suicide bombers setting off bombs in crowded places, is because there are laws in this country that prevent that from happening.

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I agree that some of them are prone to violence, but this is totally off the wall. Crowds include all sorts of people, not just the dehumanized ones (gays and Muslims, for example), so there'd be no motive to terrorize like that.

And the law doesn't prevent much, anyway. If someone wants to go psycho, they usually can.

posted July 25, 2012 02:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
so there'd be no motive to terrorize like that.

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None that is apparent

And hate and the hunger for power have no limits or boundaries, provided there's nothing stopping them.

Besides, the whole point of fundamentalist thought is beyond reason anyway. So for a non fundamentalist to look for a "motive" in their behavior is quite futile imo.

If all sorts of atrocities can be unleashed on people in the name of Jesus, who's to stop home grown terrorists from mushrooming?

Which, in fact are cropping up every now and then (non-Islamic), and are stopped by the vigilance of the Homeland Security people (if one can believe what is reported in the media).

A few days ago there was a gay bashing case reported from Washington, D.C.--

A gay couple, (male) was out walking at night. They were accosted by some others who beat them. One of them was beaten especially on the face. They ran away when a woman came out of her home screaming, thus saving them from a worse fate. One of the men is still in the hospital with severe injuries to his face.

Does it make sense to try and find a motive in that?

posted July 25, 2012 03:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Juni
You have a lot of hate in you. For someone who professes to be a Christian, it is the opposite of what you should have imho

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You are in good company Juni. I have been accused of similar and probably worse behind my back.

To lighten the mood of the thread....I recently heard that apparently the word on the LL Street, is that I thought Randall and I were once in a relationship.

Just have to share this hysterically funny rumor because the news came at a time when I really needed a laugh, it brightened my day. I think he even could find it funny.

Yes, I always make that mistake.

Can you even imagine! LOL!!!!

Gotta love LL and the crazy crap that goes on here. It never ends.

Now try to stop being so hateful.

posted July 25, 2012 04:59 PM            

We are tested daily. Some days are a little rougher than others but in the end, It`s all good .
I let my 10 year history here speak for me .
I had one other person (Daydreamer) call me a name and it was because I was a Christian and she sincerely believed I was anti Islam. So, it is all perspective , nothing more.

posted July 25, 2012 05:03 PM            

It has been enlightening to hear the different views on fundalmentalism.
From the damage to the spiritual to the cause and effects on societies.
Human Beings have a long difficult path ahead of us to reach a understanding and tolerence for our diverse Faiths.

God Bless us each and everyone as we venture forth and try to meet each other in the middle.

posted July 26, 2012 08:52 AM            

Thus, there are subtle differences in these two evil breeds, and mathematically, I would always vote that the Islamist has an edge in being evil.

ABout Iran, Iran is NOT fundamentalist today, they just have a pathetic leader. I cannot praise the common Iranian public enough, I have interacted with so many. They do NOT hate Israelis, they just want a political solution for Palestine just like most of the World. Iranians as a whole are as brilliant as Israelis, they have amazing achievements unlike Saudis. Fact of the matter is that Iran managed to progress in many scientific fields with International Sanctions in place. Such is their brilliance.
Iran has never been defeated in history. And if Christian Fundamentalists force an attack on Iran, well, they are sending a million young Americans to doom. Iran will always bounce back. History is proof. Israel will always bounce back, Israelis survived the Genocide.

But should Americans have to suffer the Egos of Christian Fundamentalists? Should Americans have to suffer rogue Syrian Chemical attacks or rogue terrorist attacks?
This indirect suffering to be perpetrated can verily be termed very evil too. But still, not as much as the Islamists who are ready to create suicide bombers by the ton.

Between Saudi and Isreal, any normal person would choose Israel with its democratic freedom.

posted July 26, 2012 09:28 AM            

If you do want to start a thread for me, we can talk.
I love how you say your beliefs, straight out, without fear or caring for others approval.
You are one of my role models IQ

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