posted November 12, 2012 04:55 PM            

I threw away all my astrology books 15 years ago.

The Messianic rabbi with whom I had accepted Jesus told me that these things were demonic.

I believed these things as he knew more than I did, at the time.

When I educated myself and went through a horrible tragedy, I vowed to find God for myself.

A year after that, a Voice told me to study Astrology a 3 AM. I prayed for several weeks and then started to study it, all the while trying to feel out if this was from God.

There are 2 kingdoms. One is light and one is dark. One can act on the kingdom of darkness and must be careful. I would not call up the dead. I think this is prohibited by the Bible.

I went forward with Astrology and felt a great peace about it. I still do. Also, I lead people to Jesus, quite a bit. I just led one of my clients to Jesus a few weeks ago. She is a very intellectual type like I am and she respected my stand on the Bible.

I believe in the Bible 100% but one must study for oneself and seek God on this "grey issues"
Some things are clear such as stealing, robbery etc

Some things are left to our discretion.

Some things are interpreted wrongly by the corporate group of Christians.

You have to seek God, hear His voice and be willing to stand alone.

That is my story of why I love, adore and respect Astrology and more importantly, believe it is Gods GIFT to man.

I hope YOU have an open mind, not just encourage others to

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 12, 2012 04:59 PM            

I am utterly exhausted today but I wanted to reply to your comments. Hopefully I will make sense and not be too repetitive.

Thanks for your response The quotes below were the root of what I was personally responding to. I was on my phone when I responded and it's difficult to properly copy and paste from so many different posts and pages on a phone, so I didn't, and that's my bad.

You said:

"It was important enough to me, to make me come back here and warn you about it."

"Well, God actually detests no one, but if you are in communion with the instruments of the devil and put your faith in them, then you cannot be in communion with God at the same time - and this is the original definition of the word “sin”, which originally meant «to miss the target», the target being the establishment of a personal RELATIONSHIP with God and maintaining COMMUNION with His love"

"… And yet most people here, who are supposed to be more “open minded” than me and always looking forward to expand their consciousness, will refuse to study or explore the videos or personal testimonies of the former astrologers that I linked, nor INVESTIGATE this issue further."

I was trying to suggest that some of your statements were coming across in a way that could be interpreted as some as you knowing more about a person's soul than they themselves know, which can be triggering to people's defences and potentially alienating. For example, you can't really tell me what my experience of God/the Universe is all about. That's my experience. I don't take offence but I do have my own personal faith, the experiences of which belong to me.

quote:
Originally posted by Sorcha:
If someone suggested to you that you start googling Judaism or watch videos about converting to Atheism I imagine you would probably ignore it. Why? Because you have your beliefs and are honoring your truth.

I find it unfair that you equate my video of debate between astrologers and Christians, with "videos of convertion to Atheism". Or that you compare my links of personal testimonies from former astrologers who left astrology (as myself), to links on Judaism (which I have read by the way and will continue to - i love studying other religions and their main books). And yes, if someone came to talk to me about any possible danger involving my soul, or things not being what they look like, I would definitely listen to that person's case and arguments before dismissing them."

Honestly, I have looked at my statement and I don't see it being an unfair comparison at all. I could have used any other belief system as an example, I just chose a couple randomly. I was trying to make the point that belief is a personal journey and I respect your right to believe your truth as much as I respect a Muslim's right to believe his/her truth. If no one is being harmed, then why not accept each person's belief as the choice of their soul? And to be clear on what I mean, I use the term 'harm' to mean something which is an indisputable fact as opposed to perceived harm, which is what you are talking about. (i.e. - you/your soul perceives that harm will come to those who use the occult vs somebody being physically harmed during a religious ritual of some kind or using negative physical/psychological force to harm others in the name of religion).

There is no proof of God other than what we, ourselves, experience as proof. That's why it's called faith because each of us has different experiences which lead each of us in different directions. I lived within the Christian faith for a long time and I was very happy to leave it because it did not resonate with me. I can, however, accept that for others it does resonate and anything which brings you a feeling of connection with God or the Universe or whatever a person believes in is fine by me.

"I also don't think it's fair that you and other people tell me I trying to prevent people from finding their own paths and truth, when I'm just bringing new thoughts and arguments to the table, for people's consideration."

To be clear, I actually never said that ^^^ It seemed to me that you were finding it difficult to "accept" that there may be other ways of experiencing God, not just one. I never said that I felt you were trying to *prevent* people from anything.

"And in all this, I didn't get angry at people's divergent viewpoints nor offended by people's lack of interest in exploring the issue (like you just claimed, when you said i was offended by people not "converting"). I also didn't offend or was rude to anyone. Why do people have to get angry at me and start claiming I am attempting to harm their freedom or opinions? And where in my posts do you see "people, convert to Christianity!".

I am not angry at you at all! I hope my posts didn't convey that. I also never accused you of being rude ( I said that I was beginning to find some of your statements/posts ironic) so I hope that comment wasn't directed at me. I have no personal stake in your belief system and my very first post said: " I don't think that God/The Universe and astrology have to be mutually exclusive. I also think that you can use anything as a tool to categorize and judge people. If that's something you do, as a rule, then if it's not astrology it will be something else you use to do the same thing. (I use the term "you" to apply to the general public, not *you* specifically) I will say I wish all the best to you in finding where you belong in the Universe. I do believe that all of us must find our place where we fit and it will be different from others' paths. But that is what makes the Universe so beautiful - these differences. The most important thing is to respect each other's choices."

As far as where in your posts does it say "convert to Christianity"? You're right, it technically doesn't say that word for word, but to me the tone of your links and debate says that. That's just my take. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but that's how it comes across to me.

I definitely don't want to argue about it and that was my original point in all of this - people will believe what feels true for them and shift those beliefs only when/if there is a deep need for them to do so.

I posted for the second and third time mainly because it seemed to me that you were getting upset about some of the responses and I was giving my point of view on why some people might feel triggered by a few of your statements (the ones that I quoted at the beginning of this post, specifically).

posted November 13, 2012 09:56 AM            

- "knowledge was/is power" ...the less people know, the easier to control (which was the main purpose of religion in those times...) and based on what history shows us - a lot of blood was spilled in the name of Christianity... "God's will" - as they put it... some had their own power/envy/hate driven reasons to behave like that wile others were like you Kamots... if now you "fight" with words in the name of your faith - back then even violence was accepted...

- when i read your first post (the one from 3 years ago) there was feeling of peacefulness around it... but that peacefulness is not that clear in the others posts - even the opposite... there's still darkness inside you - the kind that puts others on guard... and at one point you said...

"I hope you too, would attempt to warn me about anything you were convinced could be putting me in peril, especially if it was about my soul."

...do i need to say more? If you want to debate this subject - I'm fine with that, cause basically that's what you're doing - but in same time you're posing as someone else...

posted November 13, 2012 11:07 AM            

------------------
" Some define good as that which preserves, and evil as that which destroys; but destruction can be cleansing and purifying, for there is such a thing in both men and races as spiritual constipation, which comes from too much preservation of the status quo." ( Dion Fortune )

posted November 13, 2012 11:30 AM            

Perhaps this link will suffice for the edited one by Dafremen

The Worlds Greatest Fraud:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000180.html

posted November 16, 2012 12:49 PM            

Genuinely,

posted November 19, 2012 06:09 PM            

I hate for people to feel that way

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 22, 2012 12:01 PM            

cathy - if you're still lurking about it can be very difficult here, especially in some of the busier forums...i sincerely hope that you were able to extract some benefit from being here and that you find a place where you experience the validity of your contributions...

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" Some define good as that which preserves, and evil as that which destroys; but destruction can be cleansing and purifying, for there is such a thing in both men and races as spiritual constipation, which comes from too much preservation of the status quo." ( Dion Fortune )

posted November 26, 2012 01:51 PM            

@Sorcha: thank you for taking the time to write me when it was late and you were tired as I was

quote:

---

out of curiosity, what do you think about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ0e8JRu_9U

---

Hey 7th, my opinion on the video is that the guru in it, just like so many people, has the wrong idea about "the christian God". We do not believe in Him as a man with a white beard in the sky. We do however, establish a personal relationship with God, whom we consider, as I said before, above time, space and matter (so He is not an energy or "the Universe"). It is basically the being where all true love stems from, the love revealed to us through through Jesus Christ, who we believe to be "God coming to us, incaranting in vulnerable human nature, to reveal His love".

The guru in the video says that it is an idealization of ourselves which we project onto an imagined figure, out of our own ignorance. And that we are basically "worshipping ouserlves in a higher/idealized form". I think Mr Guru should learn a bit more about christianity and "the christian God", which he clearly has little knowledge about and even fewer understanding of. It is always good to first properly learn about something before you start mocking it and taking conclusions...

I also think he should consider directing his judgement of "worshipping yourself in a higher form" to the New Age instead, since the Holy Spirit of God is substituted with your "Higher Self/God Self". I.e a humble relationship with God is traded for a grandiose relationship with yourself (since you are divine and you and this "divine universe" are one).

In Christianity we do not use God to serve our "master Jedi" purposes like in the New Age the "divine" energy (Luke, use the Force), but instead, we try to open our hearts for Him to use us as His instruments to do His will. Masters vs Children. Big difference in paradigm there.

posted November 26, 2012 03:04 PM            

quote:

---

The guru in the video says that it is an idealization of ourselves which we project onto an imagined figure, out of our own ignorance. And that we are basically "worshipping ouserlves in a higher/idealized form". I think Mr Guru should learn a bit more about christianity and "the christian God", which he clearly has little knowledge about it and even fewer understanding of. It is always good to first properly learn about something before you start mocking it and taking conclusions...

---

posted November 26, 2012 03:09 PM            

A lesson other Christians could surely learn by.

Blessings on your journey.

posted November 26, 2012 03:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
I am impressed Kamots, with your practice of Christianity. It is expressed with Faith and the gentle loving demeanor in taking the criticism humbly while walking your Path of love, Grace and Good Intentions.

A lesson other Christians could surely learn by.

Blessings on your journey.

---

Thank you for your gentle and encouraging words my friend. It was unexpected and heart-warming. In time, I will forget all the bashing I got here, but any kind words I get from anybody, as the ones you gave me here, I will remember always.

And thank you for your blessings as well. I never say no to blessings :-P

posted December 04, 2012 08:24 AM            

I am familiar with all your ways. Psalm 139:3

Even the very hairs on your head are numbered. Matthew 10:29-31

For you were made in my image. Genesis 1:27

In me you live and move and have your being. Acts 17:28

For you are my offspring. Acts 17:28

I knew you even before you were conceived. Jeremiah 1:4-5

I chose you when I planned creation. Ephesians 1:11-12

You were not a mistake. Psalm 139:15-16

You are fearfully and wonderfully made. Psalm 139:14

I knit you together in your mother's womb. Psalm 139:13

And brought you forth on the day you were born. Psalm 71:6

I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me. John 8:41-44

I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love. 1 John 4:16

And it is my desire to lavish my love on you. 1 John 3:1

Simply because you are my child and I am your Father. 1 John 3:1

I offer you more than your earthly father ever could. Matthew 7:11

For I am the perfect father. Matthew 5:48

Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand. James 1:17

For I am your provider and I meet all your needs. Matthew 6:31-33

My plan for your future has always been filled with hope. Jeremiah 29:11

Because I love you with an everlasting love. Jeremiah 31:3

My thoughts toward you are countless as the sand on the seashore. Psalms 139:17-18

And I rejoice over you with singing. Zephaniah 3:17

I will never stop doing good to you. Jeremiah 32:40

I will never leave you; I will never abandon you. Hebrews 13:5

For you are my treasured possession. Exodus 19:5

I desire to establish you with all my heart and all my soul. Jeremiah 32:41

And I want to show you great and marvelous things. Jeremiah 33:3

If you seek me with all your heart, you will find me. Deuteronomy 4:29

Delight in me and I will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

For it is I who gave you those desires. Philippians 2:13

I am able to do more for you than you could possibly imagine. Ephesians 3:20

For I am your greatest encourager. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

I am also the Father who comforts you in all your troubles. 2 Corinthians 1:3-4

When you are brokenhearted, I am close to you. Psalm 34:18

As a shepherd carries a lamb, I have carried you close to my heart. Isaiah 40:11

One day I will wipe away every tear from your eyes. Revelation 21:3-4

And I'll take away all the pain you have suffered on this earth. Revelation 21:3-4

I am your Father, and I love you even as I love my son, Jesus. John 17:23

For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed. John 17:26

He is the exact representation of my being. Hebrews 1:3

He came to demonstrate that I am for you, not against you. Romans 8:31

And to tell you that I am not counting your sins. 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled. 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

His death was the ultimate expression of my love for you. 1 John 4:10

I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love. Romans 8:31-32

If you receive the gift of my son Jesus, you receive me. 1 John 2:23

And nothing will ever separate you from my love again. Romans 8:38-39

Come home and I'll throw the biggest party heaven has ever seen. Luke 15:7

I have always been Father, and will always be Father. Ephesians 3:14-15

My question is…Will you be my child? John 1:12-13

I am waiting for you. Luke 15:11-32

Love,

posted December 06, 2012 06:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kamots:
...

---

Being a Guru - a preacher among common people, he had to explain things in a way common people can understand... you should pay more attention to minute 4.29+ cause it describes you pretty well... You don't understand the words of a simple man who tries to be clear about it - yet, you think you can understand God - thi' God! ...you filled an inner emptiness with the Christian religion, fine - i don't have a problem with that, but "that was your choice" and you kinda try to enforce this choice on others through the way you're behaving, cause in your eyes - this is the path that "all of us should follow" - and that's just wrong... comparisons like this:

quote:

---

Finally for all who have said that my ideas have to be wrong because there is fear in me (I wanted to protect you from the spiritual dangers are traps you are involved in), then perhaps next time you see someone on the street who is about to be run over by a car, perhaps you shouldn't yell or move your butts to save them, because that's fear too. I mean, love is all about just watching someone in trouble and doing nothing about it, right?

---

...are absurd and disrespectful - to the believes/choices of other members from this forum... and honestly, i know you feel free but to me you seemed trapped... yet, i don't consider that type of trap dangerous - and generally speaking i don't try to convince Christians otherwise - i only get to that point when they try to enforce their believes on others...

posted December 06, 2012 04:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kamots:
I am owing two people feedback. Sorry for the delay but I've been having a heavy work schedule lately and it will continue to be this way for a while.

@Sorcha: thank you for taking the time to write me when it was late and you were tired as I was

Hey 7th, my opinion on the video is that the guru in it, just like so many people, has the wrong idea about "the christian God". We do not believe in Him as a man with a white beard in the sky. We do however, establish a [b]personal relationship with God, whom we consider, as I said before, above time, space and matter (so He is not an energy or "the Universe"). It is basically the being where all true love stems from, the love revealed to us through through Jesus Christ, who we believe to be "God coming to us, incaranting in vulnerable human nature, to reveal His love".

The guru in the video says that it is an idealization of ourselves which we project onto an imagined figure, out of our own ignorance. And that we are basically "worshipping ouserlves in a higher/idealized form". I think Mr Guru should learn a bit more about christianity and "the christian God", which he clearly has little knowledge about and even fewer understanding of. It is always good to first properly learn about something before you start mocking it and taking conclusions...

I also think he should consider directing his judgement of "worshipping yourself in a higher form" to the New Age instead, since the Holy Spirit of God is substituted with your "Higher Self/God Self". I.e a humble relationship with God is traded for a grandiose relationship with yourself (since you are divine and you and this "divine universe" are one).

In Christianity we do not use God to serve our "master Jedi" purposes like in the New Age the "divine" energy (Luke, use the Force), but instead, we try to open our hearts for Him to use us as His instruments to do His will. Masters vs Children. Big difference in paradigm there.

Finally for all who have said that my ideas have to be wrong because there is fear in me (I wanted to protect you from the spiritual dangers are traps you are involved in), then perhaps next time you see someone on the street who is about to be run over by a car, perhaps you shouldn't yell or move your butts to save them, because that's fear too. I mean, love is all about just watching someone in trouble and doing nothing about it, right?[/B]

---

I didn't realize that this debate was still ongoing. Thanks for your mention, Kamots although I am assuming that you do not intend to reply to my posts at this point? In any case, as for your analogy about fear versus love and saving someone from being run over by a car, I can't say that I see that as being the same thing.

An ideology or belief is a choice someone makes whereas being run over by a car is usually an accident. If you equate the two, then that is likely the root of this debate, as I see it. If you see people's personal choices needing your intervention (because you deem those choices as wrong) then I would say that's the part you are perhaps not seeing clearly. Being physically run over by a car carries with it undeniable injury whereas not believing in Christianity carries with it *perceived* injury - perceived by you, in this case.

posted December 06, 2012 06:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sorcha:
An ideology or belief is a choice someone makes whereas being run over by a car is usually an accident. If you equate the two, then that is likely the root of this debate, as I see it. If you see people's personal choices needing your intervention (because you deem those choices as wrong) then I would say that's the part you are perhaps not seeing clearly. Being physically run over by a car carries with it undeniable injury whereas not believing in Christianity carries with it *perceived* injury - perceived by you, in this case.

---

1) The analogy was not to be run over by a car, but about the fact that if you yell at someone "WATCH OUT!" because a car is coming and they will eventually get run over by it, then it is a loving gesture, even if there is fear in it (i.e the fact that you fear for someone's safety and well being doesn't make you "wrong" because "your motivations contain fear").

2) The analogy is not about "those who aren't Christians", but rather about "those who are involved in occultism/new age", which I said on page one that I eventually found out belonged to the devil (which is what the fromer occultists from the links I posted, WHO NO ONE WANTED TO READ/VIEW, said too). I would not be writing all this for atheists or agnostics, because they are not involved in anything spiritually dangerous. I was not trying to get people into Christianity. I was trying to get you OUT of occultism (and the new age), based on the spiritual forces at stake.

3) You thought the debate was over. It was. It wasn't meant to be one in the first place. It was merely meant to be a personal testimony with a warning and a plead to you. But it became a debate when people started quoting the Bible to try to legitimize astrology. I had to answer that.

My previous post was meant to be my last, expressing my main point better than my previous attempts:

God wants a direct, personal, one-on-one, parent/child relationship with you.

(and occultism and the new age come and offer to substitute that, with a Jedi-like self mastery and practices).

__________

I wish people wouldn't distort my words and ideas as much as they have.

But I think this is it now.. It's gotta end some time..