posted April 23, 2016 10:06 PM            

That's not an exaggeration. There was even a congressman or senator who said that (or something close to it) if we took off "in God we trust" from the money that we'd all become that, and saying crap like that helps him get elected by the majority who also think (if "think" is the right word) along those lines. (I've given details before, but I can't remember them now, and people who find this unbelievable just aren't paying attention. It was even on the news which didn't treat it as a big deal, though Jon Stewart rightly mocked him for it.)

And yet to me, they're the ones who look like the moral nihilists, when they say it's all about accepting Jesus rather than your behavior, as we've all sinned. The decent person and charity worker who dies an atheist (or even believing in the "wrong" god) is doomed to Hell, but not the serial killer who repents, asking Jesus to take on his sin.

Heck, even Sodini mentioned that shortly before shooting up the gym: "I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them."

That is, he will go to Heaven after committing a mass murder, one inspired because he was failing to get beautiful women into bed with him which he felt entitled to, which is why he targeted a gym rather than putting the guns away and becoming a monk. By his belief, he could be condemning those women to eternal torment in Hell if they weren't saved, not to mention destroying families and the like, but hey, it's all good, he has a free Get Out of Hell Free card through his lord and master Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

And then there's the Jesus Rifles, which included rifle scopes rifle scopes referencing 1 John 1:7, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Good to keep in mind as you squeeze the trigger...

On a lighter note, I know a guy who hid his bike by a church as it was the day before Easter, so he thought no one would steal right before Easter, not on church ground (he was gone for only 5 minutes, another reason he thought it was safe to do). Doesn't he know what Christ represents? He died to save the sinners, including thieves! Had he not heard of the Penitent thief? And some sure are going to get their blood money's worth out of it. And I thought everyone heard the classic Emo Philips line:

To me, leaving a bike unattended by a church just before Easter is just BEGGING to have it stolen.

posted April 27, 2016 12:28 PM            

I've been reading and following along, because I like to stretch my thinking. So, thanks for all who are participating.

The thought occurred to me, while I was reading this with attention, yet an objective detachment in place too--- WHAT IF...

(gently) What if "GOD" has mastered Buddhic/Eastern 'detachment' skills?

He gave everyone free will. Ego. WE are supposed to take 'responsibility' (collectively speaking) and watch out and care for each other.

There was a recent news story about a guy who was pushed into the street, knocked out when his head hit the pavement. People standing there saw it, and did NOTHING-- 'left' him lying there in the road (city of Chicago, Feb 7, 2016). A surveillance camera caught the image of two guys rushing up to him (I thought they were checking on him to see if he was alright?). The two guys steal his wallet and his cellphone and RUN. The guy is laying there in the street, bleeding, still breathing (according to the 911 caller). Then some taxis come driving around the corner, and one of them RUNS OVER the guy's body!!!

Now, I'd say is this practice of 'detachment' that healthy? God is in Spirit-form. He gave HUMAN BEINGS a physical tangible body to contain their own spirit-form. Don't you think, that if people took Right responsibility, that this man could STILL be alive?

We have a Human Being free-will behavior problem... Not a God-problem??...

What if GOD was one of US?

posted April 27, 2016 07:59 PM            

It's fine to me, if you don't like what I say about detachment.

But, for the record, "MY" detachment would lead to the exact opposite reaction to the injured gentleman, that you described.

In "MY" detachment, away from the ego, we see how we are all connected. And being in the present moment, receptive to the present moment, makes us willing to respond to what is happening right there, in front of us.

So I consider that the way you are talking makes me feel as if you are wounded (?) and I wonder how to put my heart out through the screen to heal whatever that is, but I don't know what it is.

All I can say is, when you are not thinking of the past, you are not racist. You have no storehouse of prejudices laid up against people, nor are you suspicious of anything, because you're focused on the present. And you are not a robber in the present, because you aren't even thinking about the future, as if the future will be so much better with the money you stole. You're just thinking of right now. So you would help the guy. He's connected to you, and he's what's there now, and everything is meaningful.

But I will talk about the past and say that last night one of my fillings came out as I was flossing, so I went to the dentist today to have it replaced. They took x-rays and saw that around this one tooth I have which is tilted, I have decay (hard to thoroughly floss that tooth) and if I hadn't come in for this filling replacement, that decay could have led to a root canal.
(Otherwise I'm happy to report, no cavities! Oil pulling and flossing, people...oil pulling and flossing. )

So I was thanking God that my filling popped out, to save me from a root canal, and in that very sincere grateful place I thought I could feel some resonance like, "Thank you for being thankful. You know, we have a lot of work to do down there. That's the spirit: awareness."

Who knows? But that's how I felt.

Wishing you all the best ~

posted April 28, 2016 01:10 AM            

Something I'm learning about (and working at noticing clues of, and experiencing) in layers, over time. I'm very happy to read your descriptions, and those of others.

Wow, that was bad AND good about your tooth! Glad you didn't have to go through a root canal.

Your own detachment viewpoint reminds me of scripture I heard recently, 1 Corinthians 13:5 "Love keeps no record of wrong."

{(yikes, just realized I gotta go to bed! ~~ too sleepy. I wanted to acknowledge your post. }}

posted April 28, 2016 08:18 PM            

You detach from your sense of who you are: you past, your memories, your ongoing "life story."

You are just a point of Awareness connected all consciousness. Formless and empty.

And you become a wind tunnel for Spirit to move through, unimpeded. A conduit.

It's like that.

posted April 28, 2016 08:56 PM            

Consciousness is expansive, it's tuning into everything. The whole is contained in every part (holographic universe) so when we are conscious, it's more than just our bodies switching on, it's the whole energy web we plug into.

Unconsciousness stems from linear thinking. If we operate on a level of consciousness where we believe that we are merely the sum of our deeds, like a timeline with good and bad marks along the way, a timeline that began at birth and stops at death...then there is no logical correspondence between those finite dots of deeds and eternal punishment.

As I see it:

Consciousness = eternal. God moving through us and returning full circle.

Unconsciousness = a temporary detour from that route

So, an eternal punishment?

But only God is Eternal. Not the detour.

---

posted April 29, 2016 01:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
^ Funny, Randall!

I've been reading and following along, because I like to stretch my thinking. So, thanks for all who are participating.

The thought occurred to me, while I was reading this with attention, yet an objective detachment in place too--- WHAT IF...

(gently) What if "GOD" has mastered Buddhic/Eastern 'detachment' skills?

He gave everyone free will. Ego. WE are supposed to take 'responsibility' (collectively speaking) and watch out and care for each other.

There was a recent news story about a guy who was pushed into the street, knocked out when his head hit the pavement. People standing there saw it, and did NOTHING-- 'left' him lying there in the road (city of Chicago, Feb 7, 2016). A surveillance camera caught the image of two guys rushing up to him (I thought they were checking on him to see if he was alright?). The two guys steal his wallet and his cellphone and RUN. The guy is laying there in the street, bleeding, still breathing (according to the 911 caller). Then some taxis come driving around the corner, and one of them RUNS OVER the guy's body!!!

Now, I'd say is this practice of 'detachment' that healthy? God is in Spirit-form. He gave HUMAN BEINGS a physical tangible body to contain their own spirit-form. Don't you think, that if people took Right responsibility, that this man could STILL be alive?

We have a Human Being free-will behavior problem... Not a God-problem??...

What if GOD was one of US?

[b]YE are gods!.... [/B]

---

I would have called the police, at least. But it might be that the guy has bad karma. Perhaps he didn't help someone before, and this was the result of his karma. And perhaps he hadn't help anyone ever for many past lives, out of selfishness, and this was his karma, to learn to be more selfless.

posted April 29, 2016 12:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
I would have called the police, at least.
But it might be that the guy has bad karma. Perhaps he didn't help someone before, and this was the result of his karma. And perhaps he hadn't help anyone ever for many past lives, out of selfishness, and this was his karma, to learn to be more selfless.

I would have helped him though because I think the world is a cold enough place. We don't need more apathy, we need more warmth.

---

We DO need more warmth, Sulkyarcher... Apathy kills people, and the planet.

You know, so often I come across that karma-blame thing. WHAT IF---- What if, it "looks" like 'the other person's karma'? but was ACTUALLY a TEST of Our Humanity.....

It's a cop-out to use the 'It's the Other person's karma' excuse.

WHAT IF this HUGE set-up is a Test of US? That if we had an excuse NOT to participate, would we do the Right thing, or not?

Again, I think about that old Star Trek episode called The Empath. There was going to be a supernova of a sun in a solar system. These Evolved Alien Beings only had one planet they could save. So they 'tested' a citizen from the planets. They 'tested' the species for how much and how willing they would be to demonstrate the quality or characteristic of Self-Sacrificing. Would the Empath be able to give her life up, die, so that her planet could live. ... Of course at the end, Captain Kirk turns it BACK on the Aliens, asking THEM (basically) where THEIR humanity was, where their OWN Compassion was?

posted April 29, 2016 09:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
Perhaps he didn't help someone before, and this was the result of his karma. And perhaps he hadn't help anyone ever for many past lives, out of selfishness, and this was his karma, to learn to be more selfless

---

But since he'd forget, then it was a pointless lesson. Likewise, now all the others would have the lesson to learn but they'd also forget. Unless, of course, they were his teachers sent to do this to him, they were born for that express purpose of leaving him like that.

Hell, maybe people are abused and raped because of crimes in a former life. Therefore the abusers and rapists are just serving the will of karma, to educate and offer up justice. And perhaps then it's their turn to learn the lesson why this is wrong in the next life, and the cycle continues.

posted April 29, 2016 09:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
WHAT IF---- What if, it "looks" like 'the other person's karma'? but was ACTUALLY a TEST of Our Humanity...

---

If so, here's someone who passed the test:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000110.html

In all likelihood, the guy with the tat pretty much deserved the lynching, in terms of human justice, but one woman's mercy has weakened the negative cycle, and changed those who can be changed.

posted April 30, 2016 12:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
We DO need more warmth, Sulkyarcher... Apathy kills people, and the planet.

You know, so often I come across that karma-blame thing. WHAT IF---- What if, it "looks" like 'the other person's karma'? but was ACTUALLY a TEST of Our Humanity.....

It's a cop-out to use the 'It's the Other person's karma' excuse.

WHAT IF this HUGE set-up is a Test of US? That if we had an excuse NOT to participate, would we do the Right thing, or not?

Again, I think about that old Star Trek episode called The Empath. There was going to be a supernova of a sun in a solar system. These Evolved Alien Beings only had one planet they could save. So they 'tested' a citizen from the planets. They 'tested' the species for how much and how willing they would be to demonstrate the quality or characteristic of Self-Sacrificing. Would the Empath be able to give her life up, die, so that her planet could live. ... Of course at the end, Captain Kirk turns it BACK on the Aliens, asking THEM (basically) where THEIR humanity was, where their OWN Compassion was?

(oh gosh, I feel like I'm yelling right now... I really am not. The screen here I'm typing in front of looks all FUZZY today. Some kind of Merc Retro Computer Glitchment???? arrrghgthghghg LMAO Senses and sensory things are sooooooo ~weird, aren't they? ... Well, at least for ME it is! o just hug-me--- hugs are healing! at least, for me. LOL)

---

Yeah, karma definitely can be a cop-out. It can also be an excuse to be apathetic. You have a great point.

posted April 30, 2016 09:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I stumbled on a Rumi quote that matches what I was saying above:

---

posted April 30, 2016 08:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
I had a really bad day yesterday. Thank you for this!

---

@Vajra,