posted January 17, 2009 02:22 PM           

And what is perhaps most difficult for us to see now, --
what may only become clear in the hindsight of history --
are the delusions and excesses corresponding to this placement.

The "Me" Generation... What are some of their excesses and errors?

The most obvious one to me, which I'd like to point out here,
is the insistence on the Individual as the source and receptacle of everything.
We've all been brought up on this one, so it may be difficult to recognize it.

The Pluto in Leo generation gave us a million Self-Help books,
and these, for the most part, exhibit what is best about this placement.
Unfortuneately, along with the healthy encouragement of self-reliance,
there grew an increasing emphasis on the importance of the individual,
and a delusional belief that the individual contains all things within him/herself,
and is bigger than anything he/she may experience at the hands of fate.

The insistence on the supremacy of "Free Will" is typical of the Pluto in Leo generation.
But, in my understanding, this is a philosophy which depends on a subtle ego trip.
We do not care to admit that we, as individuals, may be incomplete,
and that wholeness may have more to do with learning cooperation,
than with "finding ourselves" or contenting ourselves with ourselves.
Nor do we like to feel the least sense of responsibility for others,
since this would impose limits on our self-expression, -- and,
as long as we believe in 100% free will, we can easily deny social responsibility.

Likewise, there is a Leonine tendency to dismiss anything that isnt fun;
anything that is not automatically, spontaneously, and instinctively creative.
We unquestioningly interpret anything that feels good
and inspires us with enthusiasm as heavensent.
If the view presented is depressingly realistic, it must be false.
The truth, for us, is always larger than life, shining, and playful.
If effort is required, or if the self needs to be pushed in order to attain a goal,
we may tend to think that it is unspiritual, or not the path for us.

Lastly, there appears to be a strong tendency to think we know what is best for everyone.
This is one of the worst manifestations of the Leonine shadow, and Pluto exploits it to great effect.
We are just now beginning to throw off the influence of some of these excesses, and to rethink our positions.
What we may expect to see in the future is an insistence on the subjectivity of truth, --
at least, truth as it may be known to the idiosyncratic perception of a given individual.

In the counter-culture movements of the 1960's we can see some of the Pluto in Leo excesses pretty clearly.
The emphasis on "dropping out and doing your own thing", on sexuality, on recreational drug-use,
and the association of the whole of spirituality with the momentary experience of revelation,
and with only the most obvious, grand, and inspiring visions of cosmic sovereignty.
And, lastly, an exaggerated importance accorded to the young; and in some cases an obsession with youth.

We will see many of these imbalances compensated for (and overcompensated for) by the Pluto in Virgo generation that is now coming into power.

The Pluto in Virgo people will take a hard-nosed, pragmatic and realistic look at the spiritual life,
and accomplish a detailed excavation of the many laws which govern the spiritual and material world.

What we want to believe will be less important, with greater emphasis placed on what is true; regardless of how we think or feel about it.

What are some other possible excesses of the Pluto in Leo generation, and ways the Pluto in Virgos may correct them?

posted January 17, 2009 02:43 PM         

The Pluto in Leo generation is also very concerned with status, which further alienates it from the subsequent generations. You've got perfectionist, servile Virgo following, and then the balancing, civil rights oriented Libra generation, etc.

posted January 17, 2009 02:56 PM           

Another good point in that connection, iidssm (if I do say so myself).

posted January 17, 2009 02:57 PM           

quote:

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The Pluto in Leo generation is also very concerned with status, which further alienates it from the subsequent generations.
You've got perfectionist, servile Virgo following, and then the balancing, civil rights oriented Libra generation, etc.

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posted January 17, 2009 05:58 PM           

Pluto brings out the best and worst of every sign, but we tend to sweep the worst of it under the rug.

posted January 17, 2009 06:00 PM           

quote:

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The Libra generation also kicks off the focus on you/others rather than solely focusing on itself.

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Right.

Libra rules "the dialectic" in all its forms. Many intellectuals have strong Libra placements.

Both Leo and Virgo have a strong tendency to think they know what they do not know.

posted January 17, 2009 06:16 PM         

Perhaps some may want to reflect on the idea that the Pluto in Leos (1939-1956) were, in a way, rebelling and expressing our independence from the constricting and suffocating nests of our parents, the Pluto in Cancers (1913-1939), or the emotional-distancing of the Pluto in Geminis (1884-1913), that it was inevitable for the pendulum to swing away from the blind adherence to tradition and collective/family rules towards individuality (and the shrouded Aquarian element that goes hand-in-glove with the Leonine expression)…..

I suppose it's par for the course that each generation blames the ills of the world on those who went before.

posted January 17, 2009 06:23 PM           

I think you are over-reacting, hun.

This is one thread about the excesses of the Pluto in Leo generation.

I had a conversation with a very accomplished astrologer recently, and he got me thinking about this.

He termed it that way: "We are living in the world they created". And we both seemed to agree on these things.

Yes, there are certainly great things to be said about Leos, and about the Pluto in Leo generation.

If you want to bring up some of those things, that is fine, and a fair counter-balance.

But I also think it may be very beneficial to shine a light on some of the imbalances of your generation.

Your generation had a lot to say for the young. Well, you are no longer young.

Maybe its time to hear what we have to say?

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

posted January 17, 2009 06:25 PM           

quote:

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I suppose it's par for the course that each generation blames the ills of the world on those who went before.

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It's not about blame.

But, yes, it is common for the next generation to gain perspective on the last.

Your generation was a great one, largely on account of its rebellion against former generations.

Indeed, your generation was almost defined by its opposition to former generations.

posted January 17, 2009 06:26 PM         

quote:

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Maybe its time to hear what we have to say?

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posted January 17, 2009 06:57 PM         

whereas i, from the "me" generation, see everyone as a part of "i" and therefore give the benefit of the doubt to pretty much everyone and go on my way...

i think pluto in leo is about self expression and SELF RESPONSIBILITY, ie don't expect others to take care of you, and don't blame others if they are not the way you want...of course this goes two ways!

posted January 17, 2009 07:08 PM           

I wish the same could be said for all of your contemporaries.

quote:

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i think pluto in leo is about self expression and SELF RESPONSIBILITY, ie don't expect others to take care of you, and don't blame others if they are not the way you want...of course this goes two ways!

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Well said. And it definitely goes both ways.
Part of being responsible for ourselves is sharing responsibility for our effect on others.
All of these matters are infinitely subtle, and there are no easy answers.
Sometimes responsibility belongs to whoever has the character to claim it.

quote:

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i agree with zala that the generational pendulum is just that, each one making corrections from the last...

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posted January 17, 2009 07:12 PM           

It might have something to do with the fact that my Dad's Pluto squares my Sun by 1 degree, and Mom's squares my Venus exactly.