posted January 17, 2009 10:25 PM         

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What are some other possible excesses of the Pluto in Leo generation, and ways the Pluto in Virgos may correct them?

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I have found Pluto in Leo generation to have a child-like innocence toward events around them. In their younger years they were passionate and virtuous, eg protesting Vietnam, Make Love Not War, the ability to go from one job to another without waiting in an unemployment line, breaking from restricting traditions, the discovery of divorce, the Pill.

Now they are retired or retiring, they have an "Oh well" approach. "Oh well, I don't have enough to retire on." "Oh well, my children have skills and desires, but no financial ooomph to build financial security". "Oh well, my grandchildren spend all their money on gadgets, fashion and food".

Pluto in Virgo generation have had to be more prudent in light of differing economic times - the opening of World Trade, the Wall Street Crash, privitisation of government assests. Money, and therefore, lifestyle, has required a "maximize more with less" approach, as well as the Virgoan nervousness that comes with not knowing what the future brings in terms of a pay packet.

In my experience, I have found my wanting to "maximize more with less", not waste time, and do all that is possible to get the best result, to be not fully understood by Pluto in Leo people. There is too much of an "Oh well" attitude that pervades.

Even though I would love to feel that relaxed about life, I find it a little annoying that people from an older generation can't understand that I've had to buffer harder economic times, go without basics (by Western world standards), and suffer blood, sweat and tears to maintain a certain level of comfort.

posted January 18, 2009 02:51 AM         

quote:

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I have found Pluto in Leo generation to have a child-like innocence toward events around them. In their younger years they were passionate and virtuous, eg protesting Vietnam, Make Love Not War, the ability to go from one job to another without waiting in an unemployment line, breaking from restricting traditions, the discovery of divorce, the Pill.

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Or conversely looking out for number one by kicking ass and taking names (or at least wanting to).

Like HSC said, it's obviously a multi-faceted affair with a lot of possible expressions. I do think I see the Leo fixedness in whichever way this generation does express it's Leo tendencies. Maybe the Pluto in Leo generation concentrated/s on taking whatever direction the individual believed/s to be honorable.

posted January 18, 2009 11:38 AM         

quote:

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I find it a little annoying that people from an older generation can't understand that I've had to buffer harder economic times, go without basics (by Western world standards), and suffer blood, sweat and tears to maintain a certain level of comfort.

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It's curious to note that each successive generation seems to believe that *they* are the only ones who've had to struggle for anything.....

It might be a bit annoying to *anyone* when people don't understand you, don't take the time or effort to try and find out where you're coming from, and cannot be bothered to walk a mile in your shoes

I find the Pluto in Virgos refreshing, especially the group born with the conjunction to Uranus
While the Pluto in Leos went after The Big Picture to change it, the Pluto in Virgos took on the details of making that come about in everyday life.

And btw koi, not all of us Pluto in Leos are "retired or retiring" -- I have at least 10 more years in the workforce

posted January 18, 2009 12:07 PM         

the general INTENT of pluto in leo is not so much to show off and be made a fuss of as to be self-determined, yes there was a little bit too much of this, but the underlying belief is if you know and express your true self you will not be needing to pull anyone else down or harm them in any way...as for not having enough retirement money the ethic of "following your bliss" makes it possible for me to quite happily envision working till i drop...

and lets not forget that MOST of the pluto in leo generation came of age when pluto was in virgo...so there really is no clearcut line between them! pluto was in virgo when kennedy,kennedy and king were assassinated, when vietnam was happening,

posted January 18, 2009 12:42 PM           

You said it.

posted January 18, 2009 12:43 PM           

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While the Pluto in Leos went after The Big Picture to change it, the Pluto in Virgos took on the details of making that come about in everyday life.

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posted January 18, 2009 02:01 PM         

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There is a big difference between Pluto in Leos 1939 to 1951 and 1952 to 1956.(approximate split there)
1952 to 1956...too radical and weird, and non racist for the previous ones usually.

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Following from: http://users.california.com/~eameece/generations.htm

"The war babies," 1939-1946 (Generation W-a) (Uranus in Taurus/Gemini, trine Neptune in Virgo/Libra; Pluto in Leo) This group provided the leaders of the "60s generation." They are outspoken, visionary and unconventional, but they burned up much of their energy in their youth (Gemini). Impulsive, confident, spontaneous and restless, they are rebels with a cause and can become great leaders. But perhaps they have been too fickle or adaptable to remain true to the great ideals of their youth. This group and the next are very musically talented. Examples: Muhammed Ali, Joan Baez, The Beatles, Joseph Biden, Chevy Chase, Robert DeNiro, John Denver, Bob Dylan, Richard Gephardt, Newt Gingrich, Tom Hayden, Jimi Hendrix, Jesse Jackson, Mick Jagger, Janis Joplin, Ted Koppel, Oliver North, Pat Schroeder, Tom Selleck, Pete Townshend, Paul Tsongas.

"The baby boomers," 1946-1956 (Generation W-b) (Uranus in late Gemini and Cancer, square Neptune in Libra; Pluto in Leo) This populous group is famous for its idealism and provided the "shock troops" for the sixties rebellions. These "flower children" are outgoing, warm, adventurous, confident, outspoken and exhibitionist; but less original than the war babies. Born to prosperous but uncertain times, they were called "spoiled" and "impatient;" yet although they dropped out as "hippies," they also became the first "yuppies" (young urban professionals). They insist on their creative autonomy (Leo), but also long for union with others (Libra); so some of them are emotionally insecure or inconsistent. Examples: Cher, Bill Clinton (1946), Kevin Costner, Billy Crystal, Al Gore Jr., Jay Leno, David Letterman, Joe Montana, Jane Pauley, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jerry Seinfeld, Bruce Springsteen, Meryl Streep, John Travolta, Robin Williams, Oprah Winfrey.

"The baby boomers, part two," 1957-62 (Generation W-c) (Uranus in Leo, Neptune in Scorpio, Pluto in Virgo) This group was too young for the sixties and so are more conventional in their approach to life. They are talented investigators or analysts and provide many of the "yuppie" computer professionals. Most in this group are self-contained, shrewd, secretive, careful, tenacious, calculating and capable. They are more thoughtful, hesitant, reflective and unsure than the elder boomers, but often no less outgoing and exhibitionist (since Uranus is in Leo). In fact, many in this group have already made quite an impression in the show business world. Examples: Scott Baio, Matthew Broderick, Katie Couric, Tom Cruise, Michael J. Fox, Woody Harrelson, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Demi Moore, Eddie Murphy, Donny Osmond, Sean Penn, Prince, Tim Robbins.

"The techno-punks," 1963-1969 (Generation X-a) (Uranus conjunct Pluto in Virgo; Neptune in Scorpio) It was said that the "punks" were the hippies of the eighties. This group is free-wheeling, impulsive, clever and resourceful, but more hard-nosed and cynical than the baby boomers were. They grew up in a declining society with little moral direction, and so have been called "the new lost generation" (the old was the group of "seekers" born during the Neptune-Pluto conjunction). They were labeled "Generation X" because they were so unsure of their identity or purpose. Despite having to grow up as "brash, pragmatic, suspicious, skeptical, selfish, sharp-eyed survivalists," this group has enormous creative potential once they find something to believe in. The first children of the computer age, they will undergo many personal upheavals and changes. Great scientists, artists and revolutionary political leaders could emerge from this group. Examples: Lisa Bonet, Kurt Cobain, Gary Coleman, Rob Lowe, Marla Matlin, Sinaid O'Connor, Luke Perry, Jason Priestley, Kiefer Sutherland.

"The mellow ones," 1970-1974 (Generation X-b) (Uranus in Libra, Neptune in Sagittarius, Pluto in Virgo/Libra) This is mostly a friendly, easy-going, confused, flabby, indolent group of "slackers," but it has great potential in music and diplomacy. Not so fanatical and less cynical than their elder brothers and sisters, they are often wise, generous and mature. This group needs to get off its duff and make up for its poor educational background. Once it does, some very talented artists, writers, philosophers and teachers may come from this sub-generation. Examples: Christina Applegate, Kirk Cameron, Neil Patrick Harris.

"The explorers," 1975-1981 (Generation X-c) (Uranus in Scorpio, Neptune in Sagittarius, Pluto in Libra) This group is more intense, exuberant, and disciplined than the previous one. They are "mellow," but also very cynical. Relationships and sex are important to this generation, like other recent ones. Many children of the seventies and eighties feel the need to fill the cultural void in their lives by exploring the unknown and traveling widely. They see the lurking danger to their future, so the best of them are driven to investigate the roots of our problems. But others may act out their alienation destructively. Examples: Macauley Culkin, Fred Savage.

"Explorers, part two," 1982-84 (Generation X-d) (Uranus and Neptune in Sagittarius, Pluto in Libra) Temperamentally this exuberant group is more like the "mellow ones," but they are also definitely "explorers." They are undisciplined and unfocused, but probably very positive and mature otherwise. This transitional sub-generation will be a great source of visionaries, adventurers, humorists, storytellers, writers and philosophers, but don't look for too many great political leaders.

"The benevolent entrepreneurs," 1984-88 (Generation Y-a) (Uranus in Sagittarius, Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in Scorpio) This is a more ambitious and well-disciplined group. It will include many far-seeing and important leaders and entrepreneurs. Though most will probably be on the conservative side, many will organize great projects for the public benefit. They feel a great duty to society and Humanity.

"The committed ones," 1988-1995 (Generation Y-b) (Uranus conjunct Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in Scorpio) This is a group with outstanding potential. It is a very precocious generation, but won't burn itself out in youth. They are steady, persistent, determined, ambitious and passionate. They have great talent in the arts, politics and organization, and they may be the great leaders who lay down lasting foundations for a new age of civilization. On the other hand, some might consider them too cold, calculating, rigid, worldly or obsessed with their own goals.

"The flame throwers," 1996-2003 (Generation Y-c) (Uranus in Aquarius, Neptune in late Capricorn and Aquarius, Pluto in Sagittarius) This will be a very outgoing, irrepressible, exuberant generation, quick to question authority and convention. They will be brilliant intellectuals, inventors, reformers and propagandists.

"The universal free spirits," 2003-2010 (Generation Z-a) (Uranus in Pisces, Neptune in Aquarius, Pluto in Sagittarius/early Capricorn) Their successors will be similar, but more easy-going, sensitive and poetic. They will follow the paths laid down by the previous two generations, but will show greater brilliance in the imaginative arts. As the first of Generation Z, they will teach compassion for Humanity as we all reach the "omega point" of universal human awareness after 2012.

"Lonely rebels," 2011-2018 (Generation Z-b) (Uranus in Aries square Pluto in Capricorn; Neptune in Pisces) This group will be similar to those born in the early 1930s. Like them, they will be confused rebels or lonely seekers in their youth. Growing up in times of crisis, they will insist on breaking free from authorities and blazing their own path, however unsure of where it might lead them. Highly visionary, in later years some of them will be able to adapt and find a powerful leadership position within society.

"Silent searchers," 2018-2025 (Generation Z-c) (Uranus in Taurus, Neptune in Pisces, Pluto in Capricorn) This generation will be very similar to the "silent generation" of the late 1930s. Confused seekers like their elder brothers and sisters, they will quietly keep many of their hopes and dreams to themselves until later in life, when they will effectively act on their desire to help others. But many in this group will be acquisitive and conformist due to their overweening desire for security.

posted January 18, 2009 08:06 PM         

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Nor do we like to feel the least sense of responsibility for others,
since this would impose limits on our self-expression, -- and,
as long as we believe in 100% free will, we can easily deny social responsibility.

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At the risk of getting into another long drawn out argument on the subject, I would think strong belief in free will would have the opposite effect on an individual-make them very socially responsible since they realize they are largely responsible for their own actions and their effects on other people.

posted January 18, 2009 08:10 PM         

i would say the hippies were of the first years of pluto/leo, and the younger ones not so much so. but tyl very conveniently left out the 52-62 born "punk" branch of the generation (though the last of these are pluto in virgo)...

but as for being handed wealth, you CANNOt say that about any group of people over a period of time. my peers were everyone from a member of the johnson&johnson family to struggling chinese and black families, AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. when i was young (up to 16) there was a lot of money around. as a baby i was part of a very poor family. when i was 19 my dad died, and since he made and spent ALL the money, - back to broke!! i DID have a complete college education, on SCHOLARSHIP and loans; have had to work for every penny i have had since the age of 16 and the only jobs i ever had "ins" to were offered by guys who wanted to get into my pants...oh! and the answering service who worked for my dad gave me a job when he died...

you seem to be forgetting that though the focus of society in those days was on the white middle class there were a lot of other people around...

i think one thing that I FIND typical of pluto in leo is a high regard for the performing arts -any arts really, but especially performing - though america takes its entertainment seriously it is really only since pluto in leo that entertainers have become SO lionized (!)...and lately i have noticed this trend is beginning to pale; i suspect by pluto in aqua time it will have run its course for awhile

posted January 18, 2009 08:41 PM           

I havent found that to be the case.

Rather, people who believe in free will tend to be the least understanding of others' limitations.
They have this sort of "one size fits all" way of thinking, where they think everyone is capable of equal self-reliance.
The very nature of "free will" encourages us to blame people for their weaknesses, and credit them for their strengths.
Whereas determinism recognizes these things as the will of God, and doesnt take any advantages or disadvantages for granted.

But this is, of course, a very involved subject which people have been debating superficially for centuries.
In order to do the question justice, and in order to get anywhere, you really do have to commit to a serious dialogue.
Kind of like the scholar-saints in the Hindu tradition, who could debate a single question for fifteen days straight!
Talk about stamina.