posted August 11, 2009 04:25 PM            

I found this to be so insightful and dead on, albeit a little scary to read. I have Saturn conjunct Venus in my chart (which also conjuncts Uranus and my Midheaven) and until I read the above didn't realize just how much this has played out in my life and personality- everything from not being comfortable with your femininity, to early family dynamics of love based on sacrifice, feeling unloved/unloveable, not loving yourself, and being/feeling alone. The thing that hit me really hard in the above is when she says that most people with hard aspects between Venus and Saturn spend most of their life alone or without real companionship. This is something I've always been afraid of but find myself almost encouraging in my behavior.

posted August 11, 2009 04:35 PM            

in declination longitude equivalent chart, I have Venus oppose Saturn

I have a history of low self worth, being insecure, not feeling lovable, not believing myself as being attractive to the point that I thought of myself as ugly, very shy when relating others (especially when it came to females that I was attracted to),restrictions/delays in relationships/love, I have never been married, I haven't had much experience in intimacy, I am an overall latebloomer

It's improved quite a bit, but I am still working on that stuff

I have many other hard Saturn aspects too

Moon square Saturn
Sun quincunx Saturn
(I have Sun trine Moon,and Saturn forms a 12th harmonic triangle with it...Magi Society calls it Mystical Triangle)
Mercury contraparallel Saturn
Mercury oppose Saturn in declination longitude equivalent chart
Saturn contraparallel Neptune
Saturn oppose Neptune in declination longitude equivalent chart
Saturn conjunct Midheaven

Saturn is the handle of my bucket (the only planet in the Southern Hemisphere),the most elevated planet

My Moon even squares Saturn-Neptune opposition,and so I have Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint

Saturn is the strongest influence in my chart

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 12, 2009 11:03 AM            

I am sorry that you feel that way. I can relate as I felt the same things...even worry about dying alone....don't want to die an old man never been married,no children, living alone.

I don't see that happening.

I don't see that happening for you either.

I think that it helps to have a positive attitude and focus only on the positive side of things.

I like the idea of Law of Attraction which The Secret. It wasn't really about magical thinking. It just seemed to be about having a positive frame of mind,positive thinking,focusing on what you want,making a plan to obtain, and just doing the work,taking action.

my animus/anima thread was actually Law of Attraction stuff too. I included all my Moon and Venus placements and only wrote down positive keywords for all of them regardless if they are hard aspects. It was about focusing on those positive traits in the woman that I want to be with but was also the same traits that I should be having which would help me attract that woman in the first place.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/201830.html

any ways..Venus-Saturn has positives like disciplined,structured,practical,realistic when it comes to relationships. There can be maturity,loyalty, and a sense of duty and obligation to support one's loved ones. That's just my opinion.

I think that you're a cool person, and so I am very sure that will get what you desire just I know that I will. I just see myself as a late bloomer as I was a late bloomer in almost everything in my life.

Any ways...I wish you all the best

peace

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 12, 2009 12:30 PM              

Some Famous People with Venus in Hard Aspect to Saturn:
Squares - Oppositions - Clint Eastwood, Billy Ray Cyprus.

posted August 12, 2009 02:08 PM              

~ staborgi ~

re:
** that most people with hard aspects between Venus and Saturn spend most of their life alone or without real companionship. **
hhhhmmm .. well don't think that b'cause you have Venus-Saturn that it be your 'destiny' to be alone or be without real companionship ..

to me the Venus-Saturn is more of a 'mindset' or 'attitude' .. and that can be changed ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( side note ) my Venus setup is like this ..
opposite Saturn/Neptune .. ( those two being 'conjunct' )
square to Uranus and square to Chiron ( those two being 'opposite' )

there seems to be an opinion amongst astrologers that ..
dealing with saturnian emmotional issues .. gets easier as one gets older ..

( depends on the conclusions one makes of painful saturn lessons i would suspect .. )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

** This is something I've always been afraid of but find myself almost encouraging in my behavior. **
re the 'encouraging in my behaviour' ..
can relate to that .. but it could just as easily be part of the Venus-Uranus conjunction ..
( venus and uranus are 'close orb' in your chart .. )
~ http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/s.e.vns.urns.html ~

just posting your chart here ...
( in case someone might have some input 'n hasn't seen it in the PR forum
( and other data in the chart will no doubt modify Venus-Saturn

for example .. an earth sun might have have an easier relationship with Saturn .. than a fire sun ..
fire doesn't particularly like restrictions .. generally ..

( - http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000651.html - )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

short note regarding Uranus-Saturn ..
from the book "The Art of Stealing Fire" - Uranus in the Horoscope. .. by Liz Greene.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Liz.G : ..
.. We cannot really make sense of Uranus in the birth chart without looking at the Sun and Saturn as well, because these two are, in a way, the brackets around the individual's personality. They are the two planets most concerned with ego and ego development, and because of this they are the vessels for containing, grounding, and individualising the outer planets. This is why Saturn-Uranus aspects are so very powerful in charts. We often overlook these contacts, assuming that only people with Sun-Uranus, Moon-Uranus, or an angular Uranus are really Uranian in spirit. But people with Saturn-Uranus contacts are usually very close to Uranus, much more so than if the Moon, Mercury, Venus or Mars aspects it. Saturn-Uranus aspects are extremely important because the structure of the personality is being buffeted all the time by the collective Promethean vision of progress and potential perfection. This produces a powerful need to ground the Uranian spirit, but if the individual cannot handle the tension, he or she may polarise and indentify wholly with or against Uranus.

.. Saturn, as you all know, co-rules Aquarius. He is the son and castrator of Uranus in myth. They are intimately linked and inseparable, and this is reflected in their joint rulership of Aquarius. The Sun is also intimately linked and inseparable, because it is solar fire that Prometheus steals, and this is reflected in Leo's natural opposition to Aquarius. Each needs the other. They are two halves of the same story. Without the fire, Prometheus would have nothing to do. He would be redundant, an unemployed Titan on the dole. Without Prometheus, humanity as a collective would have no direct experience of the Sun - solar fire would only be accessible through the artist, the ruler, and the priest, or, in other words, through the solar elite.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

oops .. this was the original post query ..
( i may comment later .. and / or look for past threads in astro.1 ..
( am momentarily distracted by thoughts of pizza .. it being dinner time here

~ staborgi ~ .. asked :

** I wanted to see if anyone else could share their experiences with Venus/Saturn hard aspects- how have they played out in your personality and life? **

posted August 12, 2009 02:45 PM            

Anyway, I read Happy Dragon's link and I identified with a lot of it, however I do think I have a good balance of feminine and masculine energy and I don't feel uncomfortable being a woman. I am, however, uncomfortable with womens' status in society... but that has more to do with my Libra Moon hating inequality than Venus/Saturn. I also don't like how that link is way way harsher on women with Venus/Saturn aspects than men and is just gendered in general. Why can't Venus/Saturn aspects play out the same way regardless of one's genitals?

quote:

---

This is one of the aspects which can incline toward the proverbial "male chauvinist pig" so despised by the Woman's Liberation Movement; ironically, however, this movement in its more extreme forms is populated by woman with the same Venus-Saturn contacts.

---

REALLY? I'm sure there has been empirical studies about this. Please. Women's Liberation is NOT about being afraid of "being a woman." After all what is a "woman"? Women are NOT inherently emotional, nurturing or sensitive communicators. For THOUSANDS of years women have been held back by society for engaging in activities that were accessible to only men. Women were shut out from the public sphere for no good reason other than the fact that they had vag*nas. I am NOT a feminist because I am afraid of being "girly" (in fact, I am pretty girly). I am a feminist because it is UNFAIR.

Anyway, what would you make of Venus square Saturn but in accidental mutual reception? Like, my Venus is in my 10th house (generally ruled by Saturn) and my Saturn is in my 7th (generally ruled by Venus).

posted August 12, 2009 04:37 PM              

saturn is oppose uranus
saturn is oppose pluto

uranus and pluto conjunct in 5th, saturn in 11th.....actually more telling than my true node. easier to make friends with saturn, interesting stuff,. thanks.

its funny how pictures tell sometimes a diff story than a person feels. looking at amowls pictures i imagined she was the life of the party...and sometimes, i look at my pictures and think, it looks like i am having the time of my life, when reality may not have actually been the time of my life....people really can't tell a book by it's cover, as i am always surrounded by people and smiling but actually internally i am a loner that kinda keeps to myself.

posted August 12, 2009 08:31 PM            

"It may also be of a more subtle kind, where much material display is offered, many gifts given, and a great effort made to provide the physical comforts but where there is no real recognition of or love of the child in a straightforward way. It is common with these aspects to find parents who love their child because he is their child but do not actually like the child when it comes to a real appreciation of his individuality. This kind of "love" is very frequent in connection with Venus-Saturn contacts. It is particularily common among parents who have children because it is the accepted thing to do but who do not themselves, unconsciously, want the responsibility. "

my mother couldn't be there for me art times due to her personal problems, and my dad was never around, but i don't think these emotionally effected me, unless im kidding my self, but that thing about the appreciate of me as a person, and just giving me material comforts, has been like that with my family.

i think thats why i feel as close to my uncle and my gran because they both cared for me and loved me for me.

posted August 13, 2009 03:09 AM            

I was very uncomfortable with feminity when I was younger, but that could've been puberty. I'm with amowls in saying I don't like to adhere to the traditional roles of women, even the role of "career woman" that seems to be the new fad. I adore flappers and that whole movement, and I'm actually okay with gold-diggers. More power to you, in a society that emphasizes everlasting romance as a requirement for marriage. However that could be the Venus square Uranus mixing in with Saturn.

Secretly I do envy men on some level. It has to do with media and the society I grew up in... how there can be such a variety of personality and appearance for men that is considered attractive or worthwhile, but women are limited in what is perceived as beautiful or interesting. A good example of the general sense I get comes from an animator who commented on the difference of drawing men and women. She said something like, "It is easier to give men a wide variety of expressions in animation because you can add all sorts of lines to their faces and they still look right, but if you do that on a woman's face she just looks 20 years older."

I am not afraid of being alone. I've decided that it is likely I will be alone, and I no longer fear it.

posted August 14, 2009 03:08 PM            

I appreciate being able to read how others have experienced this kind of aspect...somehow that alleviates my own feelings that I talked about earlier and that everyone seems to have had some experience with too, so I hope it has the same effect for you all

I do agree with everyone who said these aspects get better with age. For instance, my parents were kind of cold to me as a young child. I know they did care for me but they didn't really show it beyond material sacrifice and restricting me. I always had this feeling they just think they owned me as well, as if I myself was a material possession (my dad told me that the first thing he thought when he first held me after I was born was, "THIS IS MINE," hahaha) and also felt that they acted out of obligation toward me-not love. Needless to say its taken me a long time to see that this was all synonymous with love and things are starting to get better in my relationship with them-- only now, at age 21 (half way into Saturns full return for me- go figure) that I feel like they're just STARTING to see the qualities that make me a unique individual- the things that I consider to truly make up the who I am- and love me for that. Interestingly, this has come through Venusian and Saturine means. I make films, write a lot, draw a lot, photograph a lot- and it was only when my parents saw these things that they started to express a love for me that is based on understanding and appreciation rather than obligation or seeing me as THEIRS. This also only came with some distancing- I finally moved out. Somehow living in the same house with them was hell in terms of feeling isolated and unloved but now that I'm not around they seem much more loving. Again these might be a material things and things I had to pursue with autonomy and that dreaded Saturn distancing and going at it alone, but it did result in love that feels more real than ever before. It makes me think that harnessing the power of these aspects might be something to look into for relief. Jung said change can only come with acceptance so maybe instead of feeling a victim of these energies (a process which I think involves some distancing and projection, which is maybe why we seem to be seeing it manifesting in our circumstances) we can invite them in, integrate them, and experience them fully- meaning including their positive traits, which I think every aspect, no matter how hard, has. For me this has meant that I've been going back and trying to connect the dots in terms of my own behaviors and early experiences and conditions and ACCEPT THEM ALREADY (for a long time I denied that there was a coldness in my love based relationships- I'm including family, close friends, and romances, that I had issues with my own femininity, isolated feelings, etc).

Amowls- you sound exactly like me! I've had that kind of emotional outburst with others about the very same feelings. and I always end up at parties alone smoking. Even when I quit smoking I always end up doing it at parties outside or in the corner somewhere, haha. As per your Venus in 10th and Saturn in 7th mutual reception-- I think maybe this might create a kind of cosmic role reversal. I think maybe you might feel your square in terms of relationships and the role you perceive yourself to be in in the eyes of others, somewhat harshly and heightened, esp. because mutual receptions kind of have the energy of conjunctions i.e. even stronger feeling than a square. Is Venus close to your midheaven? I've read that the midheaven is our self awareness, but I think that also extends to the 10th house in general because its how we present ourselves to others, which inherently takes a certain amount of self awareness. So maybe you perceive yourself to be a kind of social, graceful person and are actually maybe out in social/public situations a lot but you have to reckon with those feelings v.s. feelings that there are restrictions in your relationships, perhaps fewer relationships and connections than you would like, harsh feeling enemies. It kind of feels like being lonely in a crowd of people maybe? I'm just taking a shot here so if that sounds totally off sorry.

Happy Dragon- First off, thanks for illuminating, in your last post, how important Saturn transits are for my love life. I seem to be a late bloomer there but I have a little more faith for the future now that I just did a little research and found that when I had my first kiss (with someone 12 years older than me no less!) Saturn was opposite my Venus and crossing my IC! Also- I agree about the Venus/Uranus conjunction adding a layer to this. Since you have a hard aspect interaction between Venus, Saturn, and Uranus I'd be interested to know what your experience have been with it all. Two of my closest friends have complained that I always seem ready to abandon our relationship despite how long we've known each other and how close we are. One even said that I don't let any of her love in. I couldn't believe how dead on their perceptions were considering that I always felt alienated in our relationships and like they didn't really love me, or even know me and as a result, was really ready to alienate myself even more by running away from them. I guess that goes back to encouraging behavior, so I think you are definitely right also about mind sets, but I think those mind sets must have a direct reflection on the dynamics of our experiences.

posted August 14, 2009 03:23 PM            

I was reading about this in a book called, 'Astrology and Your Past Lives', I think, it is in my bedroom right now, and I don't feel like getting it.

But I never thought of myself as an attention seeker.
I HATE to be alone and I am guilty of reviving past relationships that I know don't work out, just to avoid it.

Honestly, I think this is why I had 3 kids. I think subconsciously I thought if I had alot of children I would never be alone, and eventually they would have children, so more UN-aloneness.

I have serios abandonment issues too.

posted August 15, 2009 02:45 PM            

I felt that way when I was 14. Very strange. Of course I didn't have any kids then, or now. But it's been in the back of my mind. Maybe if it was subconscious like it was for you I'd have kids by now lol do you think the square uranus plays a part in that? I have that too.