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Author Topic:   Conjuncting Angles in Synastry -ASC/DSC/MC/IC ?
letram
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posted October 28, 2009 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
any experiences with these kind of conjunctions?

any interpretations? i can't seem to find any.

according to a website, they can be marriage indicators too.

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Diana
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posted October 28, 2009 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hahaha!

Go to "soul unions" and "scorpios and obsession!" To name just one from recently.

I hope it's not AC/IC MC/DC.

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey letram-

Diana, StarofVenusGirl and I have had experience with these angles. We were brainstorming about them here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/003697.html

also, ORBM said the following to Diana and I about it:

quote:
If someones IC connects to your AC then this would be significant in terms of the relationship and your growth together as well as your reasons for coming together. Perhaps the way you present yourself to the world, the "you" that strangers meet the first time is the same energy that he naturally carries over from past lives, so he is very comfortable with that presentation of yourself and does not try to change that aspect of your energy. I like this connection because its not so annoying as to hold him back from exhibiting the energies of his MC which he is destined to do this lifetime, your ASC while filtering your other energies is not something that you strongly exhibiting in intimate situations, its more of a public type display. Which would be a fun energy to share with each other during public function.
For you this would just mean that you feel free to be who you are out in public with him because you know he understands you.

How the energy is manifest and how it affects you is better explained by the sign of conjunctions and the aspects.

Descendant to the MC, is a reversal polarity of the same energies. Descendant being energies that you attract.
Do you guys work together?
Did you meet at work?
Has your relationship had an impact on your career? Neg or Pos aspects to this would tell more as well as the sign that it is in.
I look more at Fixed, Muted, and Cardinal to describe how these type energies work because that helps better explain the polarities of energies that must be balanced, again aspects to this would let you know if it is a negative experience or a positive one, karmic, or transformative.
So much more to it than just an aspect.


Do you have this with someone?

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Diana~

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Lucia23
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posted October 28, 2009 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my experience looking at different synastries, conjunction between ANY angles has a binding effect...and especially in romantic couples, it seems that it can make the relationship a lot more long-lasting.

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letram
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posted October 28, 2009 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ah sorry guys, im quite glued to this 'side' of the forum, i don't browse much else where!

i will definitely have a look at your thread!

hmm, i might have an MC/AC DC/IC conjunction with some one lol,

i wondered because, there's a nice feeling with Aqua risers opposed to my Leo ASC.

but iv never had the conjunction, so i was thinking it might be great!

AC/DC dw.

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DD
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posted October 28, 2009 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen the DSC/IC-conjunction quite often in lasting relationships.
Interestingly I don´t remember having seen ASC/IC all that often though.

Maybe if you translate it into the astrological alphabet, with a DSC-IC-aspect, you have a Venus-point aspecting the Moon-point, which seems to be more easy than having a Mars-point (ASC) aspecting the Moon-point (IC), as the IC-person may be just too sensitivè and overwhelmed by the ASC person?

I don`t know, just guessing here.

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letram
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posted October 28, 2009 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what you said makes sense DD,

when the DC and IC conjunct, thats going to be like Moon-Venus energies conjunct?

thats nice to know, that IC/DC was often found in lasting relationships

Unmoved, i looked into that topic, i noticed how you analyzed how, MC conjunct IC would be like opposing energies, and IC conjunct DC would be like square energies.

but doesn't this kind of become irrelevant since the actual energies that are in question here, are Conjunct, so shouldn't them being a conjunct energy make what the native rulers are to one another (energy wise), irrelevant?

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DD
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posted October 28, 2009 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Letram,

they are not REALLY Moon and Venus, but there are certain similiarities, at least according to the astrological alphabet, in which certain planets, signs and houses have parallels like:

Aries - Mars - 1st house
Cancer - Moon - 4th house

and so on.


Of course an angle will always be different than a planet, but there is some common ground.

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not sure if I understand your question correctly, but what I was getting at was that I was trying to marry the archetypes that represent the certain angles, and see whether they can harmonize or not.

In the case of AC conj DC, does the Mars and Venus archetype gel? Yes, and very easily, especially for sexual chemistry.

In the case of AC conj IC, does the Mars and Moon archetypes gel? Not so much because one is introspective and vulnerable while the other is filled with bombast and what could be viewed as carelessness by the Moon.

In the case of AC conj MC, does the Mars and Saturn archetypes gel? Yes, especially for getting things done.

In the case of AC conj AC, does the Mars put against itself gel? Well, yes and no due to possible power struggles and competition etc.

And so on...

So, in the case of AC and IC, which I had been discussing in that thread... although the AC and IC are conjunct, their energies are square each other as seen in a chart where Aries (Mars) is square (90 degrees away from Cancer (Moon). So, the dynamics of the conjunction would behave as a square but only on the energy dynamics level.

Hmmm... let me see if I can explain this better.

AC is conjunct the IC in one sign, e.g. AC in Scorpio and IC in Scorpio. So, the angles will express themselves in a Scorpio manner, within the context of their individual natures. This means that AC in Scorpio doesn't behave as IC in Scorpio, but they do express their natures in a Scorpio way. Their natures (AC and IC) are square and not harmonious, even though they express their individual natures in a Scorpio manner.

So, think of AC Scorpio as Mars in Scorpio and think of IC Scorpio as Moon in Scorpio. Mars and Moon are of different (square) natures, even if they are in the same sign.

So, it is relevant.

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letram
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posted October 28, 2009 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what you said makes sense Unmoved, i understand what you are saying.

although, from the way im seeing it, you and DD are clashing with what you are saying.

at the end of your Post, you said think of AC like mars in scorpio, and IC like Moon in Scorpio.

but then DD says:

the IC and DC are not like Moon and Venus ?

either way,

after what you have said Unmoved, thats making me look at planets in the same way then.

a moon mars conjunction is not harmonious, or neither is a venus-moon conjunction? (but they are)

seems quite double standard between planets and 'energies' :S

sorry if this makes you lose your patience with me :P

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
at the end of your Post, you said think of AC like mars in scorpio, and IC like Moon in Scorpio.

but then DD says:

the IC and DC are not like Moon and Venus ?


Think of AC in Scorpio as Mars in Scorpio...

Yes...

DD was speaking of IC and DC
I was speaking of AC and IC

IC and DC is Moon and Venus
AC and IC is Mars and Moon

edit: I am quite patient, so no sweat, really. I am afraid of confusing you that's all. Also, this is merely a theory.

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Glaucus
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posted October 28, 2009 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Cosmobiologists,Uranian Astrologers tend to view the angles differently from regular astrologers. This could be also connected to their lack of use of the house systems that we use.

to them, Midheaven is the aim of life,ego consciousness,"The I"

to them, Ascendant is the environment,surroundings,relationships

I want to mention some stuff in Eleanor Kimmel's Cosmobiology book about the Midheaven. It will show how Midheaven is interpreted differently from mainstream Astrology. After all , Cosmobiology doesn't use houses. Therefore,Midheaven had no connection with 10th house at all.

page 148:
In general, astrologers agree that the Midheaven has a great deal to do with acquiring fame and success. The Midheaven is the place where the perpendicular plane of the meridian of the locality is crossed by the plane of the Sun's motion. This position in any chart refers to the authority and prominence, in particular to the career,the ego-consciousness and spiritual awareness, the aim in life and in the biological correspondence as Reinhold Ebertin describes, the brain proper. The position of the Midheaven has not been sufficiently utilized in the past.

In the Midheaven, all of the energies of the individual are brought together in a certain method. The Midheaven is not only the cusp of the tenth house, but also the point at which the real inner existence and spiritual direction in our lives is found.

In Cosmobiology, Midheaven has a more profound meaning.

also I want to point out that the Midheaven isn't necessarily the cusp of the 10th house. This is definitely untrue when it comes to charts in the polar regions where the Midheaven and Ascendant can be in conjunction or in opposition as well as the Midheaven can be below the horizon to the point of the very bottom of the chart.

Ebertin wrote the following interpetations for the angle-angle aspects.


Ascendant:Ascendant
harmonious,conjunction - similarity of disposition,similar milieu
disharmonious - opposites attract

Ascendant:Midheaven
harmonious,conjunction - physical and spiritual harmony
disharmonious - complementation of physical and spiritual dispositions

Midheaven:Midheaven
harmonious,conjunction - similar goals
disharmonious - complementation of life goals.


Raymond


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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
a moon mars conjunction is not harmonious, or neither is a venus-moon conjunction?

No.

We are speaking of angles, not planets. The usage of planets e.g Moon/Mars when speaking of angles is simply to demonstrate a certain archetype or energy that is at work.

It is a little different when speaking of planetary conjunctions. I hope I am not confusing you here, so maybe I should stop.

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Raymond -

I agree that the MC is not necessarily the 10th house cusp and that's why in that other thread, I said that the theory is probably valid for Placidus only.

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letram
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posted October 28, 2009 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no you aren't confusing me, well done.

i know we are talking about energies, i just was pointing out that it Kinda seemed like a double standard in these energies being conjunct as opposed to the planets/signs that rule them.

i guess I'll just have to keep them very separated !

thank you Unmoved for spending that effort one me, and for not giving up :P

Raymond,

thanks for, as usual, a nice insight and different way to looking at things.

again, what you said makes much sense, although, from the way i read it, both ways of looking at the MC and angles, seem kinda similar to me. i don't see why both usual astrologers and cosmo-something something astrologers, can't combine both ideas?

maybe i need to read what you wrote again, otherwise they both sound like they can fit!

and those interpretations for conjunct angles are a nice simple way to explain the energies at hand, thank you.

yes Unmoved,

i think what Raymond wrote supports the idea of equal house system with the AC and MC else where.

i usually use placidus, i might take another look at equal!

thanks for the replies All.


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Glaucus
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posted October 28, 2009 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"I agree that the MC is not necessarily the 10th house cusp and that's why in that other thread, I said that the theory is probably valid for Placidus only."

actually for all the quadrant house systems that include Placidus,Koch,Regiomontanus,and so many others. there are many quadrant house systems.

these come irrelevant when used in the polar regions.

Campanus is a quadrant house system that you can use with the polar regions. It can display charts that are missing houses or have no houses.

Raymond
Whole Sign House system user

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Diana
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posted October 28, 2009 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus,

why didn't he write about IC/AC?

Unmoved, it must be really awful,

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Unmoved
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posted October 28, 2009 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

sparing us!!

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Glaucus
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posted October 28, 2009 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"why didn't he write about IC/AC?"

He did but from a different angle...no pun intended


aspects to the MC are also aspects to the IC

aspects to the Asc are also aspects to the Desc

please note that he didn't write anything negative about disharmonious aspects to the MC nor Asc. He saw that any aspects to the MC,Asc is better than no aspects to it.

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comica23
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posted October 28, 2009 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Me and my bf have tight opposed ACs, and before I even know about this aspect's existence, I've always felt that we are similar, and our differences are somehow complementary.

With a special friend of mine, we share close opposed ICs, and it's kinda like a feeling of familiarity (with my bf we also have opposed ICs, but the degree is too wide, yet the familiarity is still there).

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DiandraReborn25
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posted October 28, 2009 08:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think it depends very much of this:

if the persons involved have any planets on their angles

imagine that one has asc cj others IC.that could be very binding but what if the asc person has mars or saturn there,and the ic person has for example moon there. there might be a lot of power struggles,manipulation games etc etc...and the AC/IC binding factor wont be so much binding anymore...:P

me and bf have a wide AC/ic cj in tropical and a tight IC/DSC in Draco:that is very good conection and makes us more close,but only because we dont have strong planets affecting our angles in hard way.

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted October 28, 2009 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sigh.

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MsCandeh
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posted October 28, 2009 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A long time good friend of mine has an AC/IC conjunction me, very tight.

Her IC and my AC.

We are always there for each other - there is an unspoken bond. But we can't spend an awful lot of time with each other. That's due to her own personality (she needs lots of space from everyone) but also we get titchy if we are around each other for extended periods (like on a daily basis). Our moons also square each other. But we are ALWAYS there for each other when the other is going through a rough time. We listen to each other for hours and try to help out with the problem at hand. We might not understand WHY the other is upset (as we approach life differently) but we are there for each other. The longest time we have gone without speaking in 10 years, is about 2 years, and even after we called each other again it's as if we'd just spoken the week before. (We just got really busy with our lives.. it happens with us).

I don't think it's a bad thing, but there are some other factors you need to consider in the chart too (as always). For example we are only born 2 months apart (exactly) so our Suns are sextile. But we approach life from completely different vantage points. She is the eternal traveller, doesn't want to get tied down, hasn't had a relationship (though would like to) (Saggy ASC). she is a free spirit but feels 'stuck' for some reason. (I think that is a 20's thing too - finding out who you are). I am the opposite, I have a dog, cat, own my own house, the longest time I have been single between r/shisps is 6 months, I don't like to be alone all that often. I do want to free up and travel so more as I feel bogged down here too (with responsibility). I was brought up in middle-class suburb, she was brought up by a hippy mum (but her grandfather contributed financially so they were never without, so to speak).

Our backgrounds are completely different, yet we are the same (emotionally) though approach it differently. If that makes sense. It's very hard to explain!

Also her Uranus conjucnt her ASC, so that means my Uranus (my chart ruler) also makes that contact to hers, cementing the bond we have. I think that's why we can go for months without speaking then suddenly call each other up, have a few dinners, then get back to our lives again, with the occasoinal phone call in between. I still consider her to be one of my closest friends though.

We don't have any planets conjuncting or opposing our AC/IC conjunction, or anywhere near it.

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teasel
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posted October 29, 2009 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting. I have these conjunctions with someone (within a few degrees). My ascendant conjoins his IC, whilst his descendant conjoins my IC. We have other conjunctions with the angles, though (like his Sun/Moon conjunct my descendant).

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