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Author Topic:   Progressed Synastry Showing the Length of The Attraction?
comica23
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posted January 25, 2010 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone have any real life experience with this? X3

My only limited experience is that progressed charts (and their aspects to the natal charts) does seem to show when strong attractions can be triggered/is active. But I can't test if it does show the longevity of the attraction as well, since I don't have enough data for research.

(it seems that love asteroids - like Eros - do have some influence too)

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DD
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posted January 25, 2010 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you read the book "When stars collide"?
Paul Westran has done a huge research on this, and he sais that often, when the progressions fizzle out, so does the relationship, too.

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teasel
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posted January 25, 2010 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've wondered about this myself. When I first met someone, their progressed Venus was conjunct my Sun, and their progressed Sun was closer to my Moon/Venus/Node (now it's conjunct my Vertex). My progressed Venus is closing in on my Saturn (recovering from a square to my Jupiter/Pluto, a few years ago), and trine his Jupiter.

My progressed Moon, is apparently conjunct his progressed ascendant...

*edit. We have strong natal aspects, and my Eros is conjunct his natal ascendant.

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Lara
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posted January 25, 2010 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD,
do you think it's just sun/Venus/mars/AC that shows attraction?

What about when a couple met with no progressed synastry and there still isn't any?

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DD
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posted January 25, 2010 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you sure you have no progressed synastry?


Well, Paul westran said his research is valid for "conventional relationships", but of course there are those who might prefer a Venus-Mars- square to a trine.


Personally I think the potential described in the natals has to be triggered, either by progressions or transits to come into effect.


I think there might be more attraction-aspects though. Venus-Uranus or Venus-Pluto is always an option.

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Lara
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posted January 25, 2010 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's not for me - it's for a friend who is married.
When they married though they had
pr sun cj her Venus
pr Venus cj his sun

would that be a binder or just a timing factor?

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DD
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posted January 25, 2010 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well that looks like pretty strong progressed synastry.

It would be an attraction factor (and maybe binding factor) for the time that Sun-Venus-progression is valid. But usually if one progression fizzles out, another one will come into play.


I once met someone, I found to be vaguely intriguing, yet something was definitely off. There was some kind of a "flirtative athmosphere", but it never went further than that, because neither of us was REALLY interested.


In the natal synastry we had:
His Sun-Moon-MC conjunct my Sun-Mercury
his Mars-Jupiter trine my Venus

So we had it both, Sun-Moon and Venus-Mars.
his DESCruler was also exactly conjunct my ASC (another Venus-Mars-connection).

But all these aspect didn`t really translate into reality;
looking at the progressed synastry with major players the only thing that was going on was his pr Venus exact trine my Uranus.

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comica23
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posted January 25, 2010 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD, I haven't read that book, but I remember your thread about this. X3 Yet I wanted to know actual cases in which we can check if this theory (that progressed charts can show if attractions will fizzle out) is true.

Lara, have you checked the synastry between progressed charts and natal charts?

I've noticed that Eros or maybe other asteroids can play a role too. When I met my bf, we had both our progressed ACs in applying conjunct to each other's natal Eros. But well, we did have the aspects Paul Westran mentioned too (progressed Mars oppose progressed Venus and something else I guess).

Right now, as far as I can remember, in our progressed synastry, there are no aspects between our Venus/Mars, but these are somehow aspecting each other's natal Venus/Mars (his pVenus oppose my nMars, my pVenus oppose his nVenus, and maybe something more - also, his pMars will oppose my nVenus soon). So I would definitely check for progressed to natal synastries.

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DD
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posted January 25, 2010 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Progressed to natal should be ALWAYS checked in my opinion. Definitely.

Well, the author presented several dozen cases of these relationships, and even on his website, so I just believed him.
No seriously, I checked that for friends, too, and at least the beginning of a relationship seems to have the mentioned progressed aspects.
I am not so sure aobut the ending though.

Something I definitely noticed is that, if there are some Venus progressions, there also is very often a pr Sun-Mars conjunction or trine at the outset of a relationship.

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Lara
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posted January 25, 2010 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok there was PR venus opp his N AC and PR AC trine her N SUN.

Now there is almost nothing - only her PR venus 19' (retrograde) opp his N AC 22' sag.


So what does it mean when it starts with:
his PR AC sq her n sun (0)
his PR venus sq her n venus (2)
hi PR mars opp her PR venus (0)
his N AC opp her PR mars (2)

and then it changes 4 years down the line to:
her pr sun opp his N AC (2)
her PR moon cj his N AC (0)
her PR mars opp his n AC (1)
her N venus sq his PR venus (2)
her PR venus trine his PR AC (2)

does the relationship continue as long as there is some aspect?

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comica23
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posted January 25, 2010 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
does the relationship continue as long as there is some aspect?

Actually, I would think that as long as the synastry and composite shows attraction, there will always be some attraction. But maybe the aspects between progressed synastry and between progressed to natal synastry can show the strong attraction trends of the moment (while the lack of these aspects can show a rather calm period between the couple).

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Nine
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posted January 25, 2010 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
DD, I haven't read that book, but I remember your thread about this. X3 Yet I wanted to know actual cases in which we can check if this theory (that progressed charts can show if attractions will fizzle out) is true.

Yes. It's true. In fact it's the progressed synastry which holds a relationship together.

There is a poster here by the name of Carl, who told a story or love and break up. when I did his progressed synastry it showed a beautiful illustration of Westran's theory.

The rules:

The energies between the two people is strongest when the planets are waxing & with a 3 degree orb.

An exact aspect ( eg. Venus @ 18 Tau conj. Mars @ 18 Tau) usually marks the end of the affair, because from that point the planets will be separating.

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DD
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posted January 26, 2010 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Nine, apart from one minor detail. I have noticed that the progressions still seemed to work until 1 degree after exactness, BUT the point of exactness marked a "turning point", from then on the attraction decreased, until it completely fizzled out.

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comica23
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posted January 26, 2010 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I agree with DD, apart from the minor detail that I'd think that the decreasing attraction would only completely lose its effect after 2º to 3º degrees. X3

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Nine
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posted January 26, 2010 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And I agree with DD, apart from the minor detail that I'd think that the decreasing attraction would only completely lose its effect after 2º to 3º degrees. X3

How can you agree with DD, when you're the one asking the question?

Nah. Like a full moon, once the aspect has reached exactness, it's all downhill from there. It won't cause an immediate breakup, but a shift will be felt. And things which used to come natural and easy, suddenly requires much effort.

And, a 2 to 3 degree separating aspect is too wide to hold an attraction, sorry. At 2 degrees, with no replacement/supplementing links, this couple will be leading separate lives.

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Lara
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posted January 26, 2010 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol NINE

Can I ask though - if the aspect is replaced by another aspect won't the relationship continue?
Or does the original aspect have to endure.

I'm sure Paul Westran showed examples of aspects switching although I can't find my book right now.

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comica23
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posted January 26, 2010 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing is to think or agree about something, another thing is to actually see it really working in the real life. And I do have my personal thoughts about it, but well, I've started this thread to ask for other people's real experience, since I don't really have it.

But well, the reason I think that the attraction would only wear off after 2º~3ºdegrees is coz I think that attraction doesn't wear off instantly, but gradually, and probably at the similar "speed" as how it was gradually forming. Yet again, I'm not sure of the right degrees yet.

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popcorn
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posted January 27, 2010 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for popcorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everyone I've meet have strong PR connection to my N or and PR chart.
Casanova man had his PR venus conj my N SUN/Asc. I could follow the time and when venus going separeting the relationship was over.

My On and off relationship: His PR SUN and mars trine my N merk/uran.(uran my 7 ruler) His PR venus was opp my SA/PR SUN. Now my Sun out of orb. His moon show when we was on and off. Our relationship last in time his moon was in leo...Now his Sun/mars in square to my SUN/AC

15 years mirrage: I have PR venus/mars in conj to each other in many year. I also have in time our relationship was good SA/PR Sun sext venus/NN/mars and PR venus trine nept and PR mars trine nept.

In time we divorced I have PR venus/mars in separeting to each other in my own chart. My
PR/SA SUN conj N pluto

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popcorn
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posted January 27, 2010 01:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for popcorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD"Something I definitely noticed is that, if there are some Venus progressions, there also is very often a pr Sun-Mars conjunction or trine at the outset of a relationshi"

When you talk about it before here to me you only talk about hard aspect to start a relationship. Have you change your mind? When you checked it out to me before here you not count my trine. You say in progressed chart it was other rules to start a relationship.

Squares,conj, opp in PR was importent and triggs, not easy aspect?

I know sext and trines work and have becuse you say change my mind and now look to square and also see opp as a starter to relationship...

But for me I more often see a square as a breake off...

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DD
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posted January 27, 2010 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Popcorn,

it is a question I am pondering a lot about myself.

There seem to be two theories, one sais that only the challenging aspects are event-oriented, and "can make events happen", while softer aspects are more flowing, but don`t trigger events (cosmobiologists say that for example). Especially with midpoint configuration there are ONLY hard aspects used. And I am very much inclined to agree with this theory.


On the other hand there is this really big study of Paul Westran, and he often found a Venus-Mars or Sun-Venus trine at the outset of a relationship.

I am definitely willing to keep an eye on this.


you say, you have definitely experienced the trine and sextile as working.

Everytime I hear this, someone saying that they know for absolutely certain that one single aspects invariably works, I get sceptical (I am even sceptical towards myself in this regard).

Cause of course you COULD be right, but it could be just as well, that there might be a trine and simultaneously there may be another configuration, that is REALLY the trigger, but you only see the sextile and so you think it is th at what makes all the action happen.

Personally I haven`t experienced trines or sextiles as being event-triggers, except for one special case, if they are involved in midpoint configurations.

With trines this is often the case, especially with a Grand trine.


But then again that research on progressed synastry is very interesting and convincing. But he didn´t find the sextile or quinkunx to be "relationship-triggers". Only conjunction and trine, in some cases opposition, and in rare cases people seemed to react strongly to the square aspect, too (esp. Venus-Mars), but this would mostly be too fiery and stormy to translate into a stable relationship, if it was on its own.

The one thing I am feeling very certain about it working is the conjunction (even though it not always leads into a relationship; but it makes people take notice, pay attention, something will be triggered inside, no matter how it translate to the outside).

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Nine
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posted January 27, 2010 06:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Can I ask though - if the aspect is replaced by another aspect won't the relationship continue?

Yes. Definitely. But you should expect a pole shift of some sort. I wrote about this in the Tiger Woods thread. Sometime in 2008 or 2009, the original aspect that brought Tiger & Elin together peaked/reached exactness and started to wane. At the same time a new configuration emerged placing her in the solar position, and he in the Venus position. However, unlike the marrying aspect which took three to four years to reach exactness, this new dynamic will last for a year or so before it peaks & wanes.


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DD
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posted January 27, 2010 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW Nine and Comica,

I agree with you both, in that, once an aspect reached exactness, the intensity will decrease gradually. It`s only downhill from then, so to speak.

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DiandraReborn25
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posted January 27, 2010 07:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
from personal experience when i met my bf

his P Sun was separating from my P.PLuto
his P Moon cj my n IC
his P venus 25 lIB cj my nPluto 26LIB
his P VENUS 25LIB was separating from my P ASC 23LIBRA

hsi P ASC 17LEO was cj my P VALENTINE 18LEO

MY P SUN 28VIR was SEPARATING FROM HIS nVENUS 26VIRG

My P VENUS/MARS 23/25LEO was cj his nNEPTUNE 24 LEO

MY P ASC 23LIBRA was SEPARATING FROM HIS SATURN

So....my personal experience seems to show that separating aspects dont make a break-up,it can actually also approach two persons!

see how his Venus was already separating from my asc and how my Sun was separating from his venus!

NOW:

HIS P SUN is separating from my nSaturn
His P venus IN EXACT CJ of my nSATURN 0Scorp
His P vENUS IS aproaching my P SATURN 3Scorp
His P ASC is exact cj of my P VALENTINE 20LEO

MY P Sun 2Lib is approaching his nSUN 5lib
MY P ASC has separated from his nSaturn and is approaching his N PLuto

So..here again some separations already ocuring.

i dont believe that because of a single separation aspect,a relationship will end.

Like IQ says,free will is the ultimate factor.

what do you think?

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DD
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posted January 27, 2010 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Diandra,

"my personal experience seems to show that separating aspects dont make a break-up,it can actually also approach two persons!"

No, I don`t believe that. I think the applying progressions were the ultimative factor in your coming together (and free will). Plus I think I remember you were not completely sure about hte exact degree of your ASC, so that could be a factor. Actually you could even use the progression for rectifiying it one or two degrees.

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DD
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posted January 27, 2010 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
his P venus 25 lIB cj my nPluto 26LIB
this was an approaching conjunction, and maybe it was the indicator of the soulmate-relationship.

"his P VENUS 25LIB was separating from my P ASC 23LIBRA"
I am inclined to think that your ASC may be 2 degrees later than what you have thought. Well, 2 degrees are about 8 minutes timedifference (only approximately, it depends), so that is well possible.

hsi P ASC 17LEO was cj my P VALENTINE 18LEO
This was definitely a valid progression within 1 degree. And wasn`t his Moon somewhere close in Aquarius?


My P VENUS/MARS 23/25LEO was cj his nNEPTUNE 24 LEO
that seems to be very indicative of the romantic nature of your relationship.
And also relates to your spiritual bond.

Y P ASC 23LIBRA was SEPARATING FROM HIS SATURN
Well, some progressions are pretty good if they separate, they leave a sense of relief, if an obstacle is falling away.


NOW:

HIS P SUN is separating from my nSaturn
do you remember some of the troubles you have faced? big lessons, and it seems they have been learned now, hence relief, or at least some time to breathe.


His P venus IN EXACT CJ of my nSATURN 0Scorp
Well, some lessons seem to be still there, but also, Venus-Saturn can be about consolidation of a relationship.


His P vENUS IS aproaching my P SATURN 3Scorp
Seems there is still some consolidation to expect.


His P ASC is exact cj of my P VALENTINE 20LEO
another very loving connection.

P ASC has separated from his nSaturn and is approaching his N PLuto
that should turn out interesting, very transformative.


EDIT:
I think that separating aspects up to maybe 1 degree, may have an influence still. It is surely a much weaker influen ce than it would have been 1 degree approaching, but since you haven`t met before, you can`t really compare. I think it is not like a switch is being pulled once a planet has passed 0°00 exactness and the light is out, but it is a gradual decreasing of intensity.

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