posted May 09, 2010 12:21 AM            

Amowls, judging from how you are here on LL, I think ur cool peoples. Unfortunately, that double standard has been around a LOT longer than you or I have even been alive and it most likely won't go away.

The next time you are in a position to ask a bunch of guys, give it a shot and see what they say. I put money on it that most will say they don't want a promiscuos woman, or a woman that has been with what they think is too many dudes, as their wife.

I'm not making this up or being chauvanistic or anything like that. It's just something that is an unfortunate truth.

posted May 09, 2010 12:29 AM            

I hear you. I really didn't wanna get into why most guys feel this way in this thread but if you wanna hear it, I can send you an email.

And if you think that is something lol, most guys won't marry or be with a woman seriously if the woman keeps a bunch of male friends after the relationship gets serious!

gotgemini@gmail.com or DC32Mason (yahoo)

I don't wanna derail the thread so if you want, we can continue in email or yahoo.

posted May 09, 2010 03:25 AM            

i understand if its a personal preference but you really shouldn't apply it to your entire gender.

posted May 09, 2010 09:57 AM            

Sorry guys (and girls) but we all have to realise that everyone has a past and everyone has a number (of ppl they slept with)..you cannot judge someone on that fact and use it as an absolute, conclusive factor.
Just don't let your curiosity get the better of you and DON'T ASK, unless you're prepared to deal with the fact that your partner has yes, indeed, had a life before you came along.

Different when it comes to the issue of players and where this is compulsive behaviour, but I'm talking in a general sense.

As a female, I've rebelled against and broken every stereotype and found that in a patriachal society, I've had to grow a set of balls otherwise this world would have swallowed me up and spat me out a long time ago. So yeah, I have had to take on male traits as a means of Darwinist survival.

At times I've had to be bossy. (an unemployed, freeloading boyfriend brings that out)

At times I've had to take complete control of a situation. (when everyone looks up to you to know what to do)

At times I've had to be combative (like when your boyfriend is backing you into a wall with his fist up, about to smash you in the face)

At times I've had to be domineering (because if i wasn't, then I'd be allowing myself to be a doormat at my expense for someone else's needs and wants)

At times I've had to be rebellious (otherwise I'd would have accepted the status quo, which is NOT EQUAL and now I rebel against injustice and unfairness)

Got Gem, I'm a Libra moon too and I am quite the passive person. I hate fights, any kind of discord and loud noises and things and ppl that are in your face. I'm also a triple cancer with a Venus Taurus, so I'm very feminine in my mannerisms, dress and speech/communication even when I dress a bit tomboy-ish.

But I'm very lucky to have my Aries ASC. It taught me to stand up for myself and how to say NO, instead of letting everyone walking all over me. It taught me how to defend myself and to express, it gave me a voice.

Passivity it a terrible thing for women. If I had let passivity win every single time in fear of shaking things up, then the physical abuse, sexual abuse, rape and drugs would have seen me dead in a gutter in the local red light district by the age of 21..all because I could stand up and say NO

posted May 09, 2010 11:26 AM            

A lot of women, when they think passive, they think of the 40's, 50's, and 60's "Passive Paula, Betty Homemaker" type where the man rules all and te woman stays home and rears the kids. I think women of these days are mistakenly equating passivity with weakness.

Me personally, I believe passivity is the same as being cooperative. By this I mean, a woman who doesn't act like she wants to wear the pants in the relationship. Being cooperative means voicing your opinion but not in an argumentative way. Being cooperative means working with your other half, not against them. Being cooperative means respecting each other. Being cooperative means not being combative, rebellious, bossy, or domineering; and guess what, this goes for the woman AND the man.

I think most women equate passivity as letting themselves be compromised all the time. I equate being passive as if the man does something wrong, she approaches him and let's him know about it nicely instead of flying off the handle. The same goes for the man. I'm not talking about a person that just keeps letting wrongdoings slide, that's just being weak.

Guys don't want weak women, they want cooperative women and I'm sure you women want the same.

You guys get my drift now?

posted May 09, 2010 11:38 AM            

Sometimes you have to go through some huge immense, David & Goliath type power struggles to learn what fairness, equality, balance and harmony truly is in a cooperative relationship, not a codependent one.

posted May 09, 2010 07:27 PM            

Now my real issue was that when you say a woman has to be 'this' and 'this' and 'this' you are conguring up images of a '50s home where the wife is suppose to be a blank slate, but accepts that her husband comes with issues.

I'm a Cancer Sun, but with an Martian edge (Aries Mars/3rd here) and an 8th house moon so I can't equate passivity with anything other than being trampled all over. It's not the same as being reserved (which I am), its just accepting too much crap. Sorry if that's extreme, but I've learned it all too well from experience. I may be impatient, and I may be hotheaded but atleast I'm protecting my rights.

posted May 09, 2010 07:46 PM            

And just to address something, I mean cooperative instead of passivity. You guys are taking the meaning the wrong way so let's just use cooperative. Look to my previous replies for what I mean by cooperative.

posted May 09, 2010 08:02 PM            

- I do not ask about the history. (I literally stop them if they try to tell me)

- I do not tell my history. (Couldn't get it out with a sledgehammer)

posted May 09, 2010 09:48 PM            

Being passive and being submissive and being cooperative are three very different things. I'll admit, in my initial post, I interchaged passive and cooperative. But like i said, I was using passive as cooperative. You are using passive as submissive and weak. Nowhere in any of my replies did I say it's good to be submissive or weak. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say it's okay to be a doormat. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say a woman should submit to a man or vice versa. That's possibly just your preconceived notion of the word.

What you describe is someone that is weak. Someone who won't stand up for themself. I'm not gonna sit here and define it for the umpteenth time. Cooperation is a choice. I seriously doubt someone chooses to be, or not to be passive. Most passive people I know have been that way their whole life. Like I said, my mother was passive but not at all weak, as in your description of weak.

Furthermore, for the record, you don't know my idea of cooperation so don't act like you do. However, I'll tell you exactly what it is. My idea of cooperation is mutual respect, trust, good communication, and taking care of each other i.e., reciprocation; by BOTH the man AND the woman. I can do all she does and vice versa. She can cook, clean, do the laundry, and do the grocery shopping and SO CAN I. In fact, in my marriage, I did all those things consistently for 8 years. I've always been the type to want EQUALITY in relationships. My idea of cooperation is NOT the man males all the rules. My idea of cooperation is NOT the woman must do as the man says. My idea of cooperation is NOT the woman's identity is less important than the mans. So please don't come in here and make all these negative assumptions about me when you don't even know me. And when did I say I was trying to "out talk everyone here??????" Why would you even assume such nonsense???

So please cut it with the snide remarks. Not once have i come at any of you sideways in this thread. All I did was voice my opinion just like all of you. If you have an issue with anything I said, please, by all means, voice your opinions. But please keep it civil. I can post snide comments with the best of them but it's something I won't do.

posted May 09, 2010 10:56 PM            

I do however agree with amowls that you can't apply it across the board because there are soooo many people in this world from so many different backgrounds, cultures, astrological make-ups etc --- that it simply will not ring true for *all* men & not even for a majority of men (in my opinion).

I think it's great that you are at a point in your life where you are happy with *you* and have a well-defined idea of what you are looking for in a woman.

posted May 09, 2010 10:59 PM            

Wow.. I have that same set up. 8th house with Koch or Equal.. 7th house with Placidius.
I have come to know that it really doesn't matter. My 7th and 8th houses are very crowded.
My Pluto, Uranus, Juno conj is in the 8th as well making a tight sextile to my Mars, Neptune, MC conj. in Scorpio...

My Venus is RX... and I like the opposite.
I have worked on a day to day basis with my spouse for 12 years... somewhat clingy is ok... seperate vacations... a must.

posted May 09, 2010 11:02 PM            

quote:

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So please cut it with the snide remarks. Not once have i come at any of you sideways in this thread. All I did was voice my opinion just like all of you.

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I agree!