posted September 10, 2014 02:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mochai:
Borderlines need a lot of unconditional love. I love my sister, but it's not good for my sanity to be close to her. She can be very destructive.

---

posted September 10, 2014 03:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
BPD is essentially a way of relating to the world in the absence of more adaptive ways and wider perceptions of self and others.
More adaptive ways can be learned and BPD reactions and thoughts no longer take place.
All disorders of the personality are changeable, and have more to do with an individual's reaction to their environment, so I am not sure a propensity for this would be seen in the chart.
This is also an unpredictable condition by default of its core issue, and how a person expresses the criterion will differ by personality.

You would have to consider the environment the person is/was in as well as the symptoms.

There is also a huge number of misdiagnoses.

The term borderline is not only misunderstood by much of the public, but also professionals.

The new proposed term: Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder actually illustrates the core issues - inability to manage powerful emotions. Every other thing in the criteria stems from this inability to manage emotion.
So, if I were going to look for anything in the chart, it would be this, bearing in mind that context is everything with this condition, and that depending on the context/trigger, many people who DON'T have this disorder will still struggle with their emotions also. So, on finding this, you may find ONE risk factor, that essentially everyone will experience at some point in their life.

It's actually even in question amongst some professionals whether there is really any such thing as a "personality disorder".
The only reason it appears so hard to treat is down a misunderstanding of what it is, and the revolt of professionals against individuals with it. Professionals who believe we should all be able to control our emotions all the time, unless we hear voices, have delusions, or don't know the name of the prime minister.

---

Cluster B of personality disorders in general deals with issues connected to emotions:

Cluster B personality disorders: antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic. The DSM-IV views these as a subset of personality disorders that are characterized by dramatic, emotional or erratic behavior.

I think personality disorders like you said are often misdiagnosed especially BPD which is famous for been overly diagnosed so I question if someone truly has BPD when they think they have it. The history of hysteria is linked to this disorder and yes is often misdiagnosed bc is misunderstood by even professionals.

The diagnostic criteria is also dimensional so it ranges from mild to severe.

I do think though that personality disorders are important to recognize bc its a very persistent, fixed and pervasive pattern in a person's life that disrupts their ability immensely to have functional relationships and function day to day.

posted September 11, 2014 06:31 AM              

quote:

---

It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional - rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping her, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference. It's like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you'll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory "event horizon." But before that happens, other signs will reveal her true colors.

Sex will be incredible. She will be instinctually tuned in to reading your needs. It will seem wonderful - for a while.

The intensity of her erotic passion can sweep you away, but her motive is double-edged. One side of it comes from the instinctually built-in, turbulent emotionality of her disorder. Intensity is her trump-card.

But the other side of her is driven by an equally instinctually and concentrated need to control you. The sexual experiences, while imposing, are motivated from a desire to dominate you, not please you. Her erotic intensity will be there in a cunning way tailored so you will not readily perceive it.

“I love you” means – “I need you to love me”. “That was the best ever for me” means – tell me “it was the best ever for you”. Show me that I have you.
Love: The Hater Phase
Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion. But when that part makes it's first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What gives this rage its characteristically borderline flavor is that it is very difficult for someone witnessing it to know what triggered it in reality. But that is its primary identifying clue: the actual rage-trigger is difficult for you to see. But in the Borderline's mind it always seems to be very clear. To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous. It all serves to break you down over time. Your self esteem melts away. You change and alter your behavior in hopes of returning to the “Clinger Stage”. And periodically you will, but only to cycle back to the hater when you least expect it, possibly on her birthday, or your anniversary.[/B]

---

posted September 12, 2014 05:57 PM            

I'll put up a chart of someone I knew a while back who's since been diagnosed with BPD, if anyone's interested.
If I recall correctly the Moon wasn't afflicted, nor Mars/Uranus,,but I'd have to look again to be sure.

I felt for her, it was obvious she was trying to reach out. But she did behave in many ways that it seemed she didn't understand. Or sometimes understood too well. And she was often suicidal when things weren't going her way. Very sad. Then add to that, the drinking. Didn't help at all. So it was a pattern of getting close to her, then something doesn't go to her plan and she's threatening to drive her car off a cliff. After you're bonded to her and she's threatening to do a thing like that, so frequently. It's hard.

Think of someone threatening to kill someone you care about.
Except that person was them.

posted September 12, 2014 06:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Still not as bad as being a sociopath.

---

posted September 12, 2014 06:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Great Thread Idea!

This is a client of mine who has BPD among other things such as delusional disorder, paranoia, trouble focusing..

---

... Holy ... God.

posted September 12, 2014 06:16 PM            

quote:

---

The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), released by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013, lists both sociopathy and psychopathy under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorders (ASPD). These disorders share many common behavioral traits which lead to the confusion between them. Key traits that sociopaths and psychopaths share include:

A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior

In addition to their commonalities, sociopaths and psychopaths also have their own unique behavioral characteristics as well.

---

posted September 13, 2014 03:23 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
So it was a pattern of getting close to her, then something doesn't go to her plan and she's threatening to drive her car off a cliff. After you're bonded to her and she's threatening to do a thing like that, so frequently. It's hard.

---

Yeah... Idk this guy is a "genius" at least by certain standards (he got almost the highest possible score on the ACT without studying for example) plus he's charming and grew up learning how to be manipulative... except now he has no idea how to relate to people on a genuine level imo. And the constant chaos has been a pattern for him long before I came into the picture. When things weren't going well, which happened pretty consistently, he'd threaten to kill himself and also others. So idk how to categorize that but it really is kind of like some Jeffery Dohmer sh** at least in terms of his personality.

Although I realize I have to take responsibility for getting myself into that situation and being drawn to it in the first place.. With tNeptune square moon I was/still sometimes am drinking too much and feeling much more "empathetic" or open to victim/savior dynamics (which his sun exactly opposite my moon so poetically illustrates lol) Anyway, here's his chart if anyone wants to see it

posted September 13, 2014 04:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
I think my responses were natural to what was happening, and that I couldn't escape it.

---

posted September 13, 2014 05:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
... The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), released by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013, lists both sociopathy and psychopathy under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorders (ASPD). These disorders share many common behavioral traits which lead to the confusion between them. Key traits that sociopaths and psychopaths share include:

A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior

In addition to their commonalities, sociopaths and psychopaths also have their own unique behavioral characteristics as well.

---

Forgive my being such a pedant here. I was on the sidelines of the DSM-5 revision, and I think this edition is rough at best.

Call me one of the mentioned professionals who doesn't agree that the distinction needs to be reclassified under two separate terms; the public has become accustomed to certain traits in both, but uses either word interchangeably, and this causes mass confusion.

Like the ICD, I'm more focussed upon the pathology rather than the social aspect when it comes to categorisation -- but not diagnosis. When diagnosis, the environmental aspect (behaviour and social components) are just as important as the genetic and 'primary' nature element. It's a very holistic thing, especially when undertaken using a combination of the PCL-R and Levenson's scale. I was trained on Hare, but I've found the latter meritorious as it incorporates some different dimensional components. Psychopathy, like narcissism, and some Cluster B PDs, tend to suffer anosognosia; for the diagnostician, this is crucial training, as the psychopath is adept at feigning such 'obliviousness'. It's a tricky balancing act.

I'm also fond of the move to just reclassify everything under APD, as yet another spectrum. Namely, sadistic antisociality. It works for me, and not all psychopaths are emotionally predacious.

Current DSM-5r Entry

posted September 28, 2014 05:48 AM            

Obviously I'm asking because I was diagnosed as "possibly" having BPD when I was 14, and again when I was in a really crappy part of my life and I actually believed that telling a psychiatrist about the long list of "possible" disorders I was diagnosed with ~6 years prior, might do any good. (started as major depression, then bipolar, bipolar 2, then when the lithium started destroying my stomach, they basically said "whatever, you don't have bipolar anyway." and thus begun the whole If-I-Can't-Help-You-with-These-Pills-You're-an-Incurable-BPD-Liar treatment.)

The therapist I'm seeing now has told me she doesn't think I have BPD, although I can show some symptoms. I guess this is the most accurate way to describe it for me.

posted September 28, 2014 06:26 AM            

For instance the BPD person's romantic partner could be out of touch for a day- and then tell them something like: "I had to work all day and then I had crisis with my pet.. and had to rush him to the vet etc"...
The BPD person would react by having a complete nervous breakdown and think the partner doesn't truly love them, that they are not a priority in their partner's life, that their partner lied about loving them all along - and other strongly negative reactions.

They have very strong/intense emotions that they cannot control once triggered, and the triggers are very often related to a fear of abandonment.

Bipolar and BPD can be distinguished by the fact that in Bipolar the mood changes last for some time - a few days/a week.. In BPD the mood changes can happen very suddenly throughout the day.. like at 10am you might be in love with someone and think they are perfect - and at 2pm you might feel like that person is all kinds of horrible.

The feelings/thinking are often black and white. When people close to the BPD person do something they like (even if it is small, like cook them something nice) the BPD instantly sees them in an extremely positive light... But this "impression" can change in hours or minutes (and end up in the opposite extreme).

Do you relate to any of this ^?

I'm not a psychologist. I've just read a lot about this.

If you reach the conclusion that you do actually have BPD, my advice would be to find a psychologist who practices dialectical behavioural therapy. This has proven to be extremely helpful and effective for BPD patients (more so than other types of therapy). It would also be best if it is possible for you to see a psychologist who has experience dealing with BPD patients.
Not *all* psychologists will know how to handle this disorder.. There are many misconceptions about it. Some psychologists refuse to take on BPD patients due to fear or lack of knowledge. It's really important to find the right person for you.

posted September 28, 2014 06:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:

Bipolar and BPD can be distinguished by the fact that in Bipolar the mood changes last for some time - a few days/a week.. In BPD the mood changes can happen very suddenly throughout the day.. like at 10am you might be in love with someone and think they are perfect - and at 2pm you might feel like that person is all kinds of horrible.

When people close to the BPD person do something they like (even if it is small, like cook them something nice) the BPD instantly sees them in an extremely positive light... But this "impression" can change in hours or minutes (and end up in the opposite extreme).

Do you relate to any of this ^?

---

**** , now I'm worried I might exhibit signs of BPD.

posted September 28, 2014 07:06 AM            

http://youmebpd.com/wont-psychiatrists-diagnose-borderline-personality-disorder/

quote:

---

Ignoring a real legitimate medical condition should be a crime! The fact is that Borderline Personality Disorder is real and is very treatable, but not necessarily with medication, it responds best to therapy like Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT). The saddest part is that family members are the ones that often search the internet to find what is wrong with their loved one because the diagnoses the doctors gave just don’t add up or cover the issues they see. Often they find Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) after a couple Google searches, yet “professionals” that went to school for years can’t see this? Or won't!

---

posted September 28, 2014 05:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
My understanding is that the most significant BPD trait is a strong fear of abandonment. A lot of the BPD person's reactions come from this fear.

For instance the BPD person's romantic partner could be out of touch for a day- and then tell them something like: "I had to work all day and then I had crisis with my pet.. and had to rush him to the vet etc"...
The BPD person would react by having a complete nervous breakdown and think the partner doesn't truly love them, that they are not a priority in their partner's life, that their partner lied about loving them all along - and other strongly negative reactions.

They have very strong/intense emotions that they cannot control once triggered, and the triggers are very often related to a fear of abandonment.

Bipolar and BPD can be distinguished by the fact that in Bipolar the mood changes last for some time - a few days/a week.. In BPD the mood changes can happen very suddenly throughout the day.. like at 10am you might be in love with someone and think they are perfect - and at 2pm you might feel like that person is all kinds of horrible.

The feelings/thinking are often black and white. When people close to the BPD person do something they like (even if it is small, like cook them something nice) the BPD instantly sees them in an extremely positive light... But this "impression" can change in hours or minutes (and end up in the opposite extreme).

Do you relate to any of this ^?

---

I am not the person you were originally speaking to, but yes.

However, for me, I thought it was my rocky childhood and youth. I had an abusive mother, father left, step father worked all the time, then left. Then, my first love came home one day and said, 'I don't love you anymore" and when I rebounded and got married to someone else, my husband cheated on me and left... etc. etc.

The repeating theme in my life has taught me not to get close to people because they will leave me. In other words, I don't think I was always this way or born this way. I think trauma has led me down this path.

I have since ruined many romantic relationships over my "don't leave me" antics and I am frequently trying to get people to "prove" they love me. One example - when I was younger (and I know this is horrible), I used to tell people I was late on my period and thought I was pregnant just to see how they'd react. I wanted to test them to see how they handled tough situations with me. If they would leave me in those circumstances, I wanted to know very early in the relationship.

Ironically, I really DID think I was pregnant when I first started dating my hubby (because, I really was late) and we took a pregnancy test together. I was panicked and he was so calm. He is always the face of calm when I slip and have a freak out. I appreciate that in him.

Me:

Edit:

My most sane/normal relationships were polyamorous. I could protect my heart that way and in some way, those relationships were part of what helped me to understand that love does not = ownership.

posted September 28, 2014 08:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
... -_-

---

And saved!