posted August 09, 2011 01:47 PM            

the above and below from clairvision switchboard

According to the Clairvision principle: 'Planet in the 12th, transcended planet', Mars in the 12th can simply indicate a VERY STRONG Mars planetary force, with inclinations as indicated by the aspects.

this seems to be confirmed by adze mixxe astrologer extraordinaire see his website and below
Mars beyond the Tropic of Cancer
SUPER ATHLETIC POWER
UNIQUE MOTIVATIONS AND TALENT

Saturn beyond the Tropic of Cancer
SATURN EXTRAORDINARY WORK ETHIC
EXTRAORDINARY WORK ETHIC

posted August 09, 2011 02:22 PM            

Above is a fairly recent thread on saturn.

posted August 09, 2011 02:28 PM            

The 12th is the house of 'going beyond'. This tends to push for experiencing the higher values of Venus: universal love, a sense of cosmic harmony, high connections and spirituality.

Taken from clairvision astrology switchboard.

So do all the planets express higher values there then? This would go against the joy of a planet but then again that was historical thinking and clairvision is tailored to our modern age.

posted August 10, 2011 02:28 AM            

Also there doesn't seem to be much positive on the threads about the 12th house yet so many very successful/prominent people have 12th house placements, madonna, george bush, obama. I think it was marjorie orr on star4cast who noted 12th house universality of some of the worlds leaders and she gives some examples.

So if you have positive findings on the 12th house please share them here, if they are negative then they can be added to the other threads on 12th house planets that are still active.

posted August 10, 2011 02:40 AM            

This is taken from Marjorie Orr's website star4cast.com

posted August 10, 2011 12:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedScorp:
I have a Chiron in the Twelfth...does that mean my suffering is very deep and very hard to grasp? (Ami Anne had said something similar)

But...would that also mean my ability to help others is very strong as well?

---

posted August 10, 2011 12:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DayandNight21:
12th house - independent souls From: Marjorie. (06 Jan 2011 13:30):

This is taken from Marjorie Orr's website star4cast.com

The 12th house was very badly written up in the old astrology texts with gloomy murmurings about prisons, mental asylums, monasteries and the like.
Gauquelin who did the statistical surveys of birth charts found that the 12th and 9th were the strongest houses for successful activity.
Evidently Dane Rudhyar said that the twelfth house is the one house that represents not just the unconscious, but the essential person who does not take his identity from relationships or family, career or friends. One significant trait he thought of the persons born with Sun in the 12th is that they are not easily influenced by other people and will stay committed to their own convictions. If early childhood experiences have squashed the person's self-confidence, they will withdraw inside himself and become introverted or shy.
That kind of makes sense to me since it is thought that the 12th house does represent to some degree what happened during the mother's pregnancy. A 12th house Sun suggests a personality formed early in utero and somehow with less input from the mother so better able to stand on their own two feet outside conventional norms. Some may be hippies for this reason tho' I've never heard that about 12th house Suns. But the mark of a success is usually someone who stands out from the crowd and can think out of the box.

---

Yes marjorie orr's description of 12th sun does fit me and I found this description of 12th house given below very befitting.

posted August 10, 2011 05:01 PM            

Gordon Brown (prominent UK Politican) has four planets (Sun, Jupiter, Venus, Mars) in Pisces in the 12th.

David Copperfield is a magician and is a Sun Virgo with Pluto Sun Jupiter in the 12th.

Britney spears has 12 house mars in virgo.

Mick Jagger 12th house Mars in Taurus The focal point fixed Mars gives him staying power, determination, single minded persistence and the ability to ensure setbacks while keeping his goal in mind.

I know that various sources should be used, the above was star4cast.com (marj orr again). Examples of celebs with 12th house positions.

posted August 10, 2011 08:55 PM            

It's most refreshing to take the effort to explore things from a new perspective, to dig deeper to get to the true significance of astrological dynamics, as opposed to simply rehashing the same - rather superficial - interpretations that are always accessable.

Good to get thinking!
Thanks!

Oh, ps, could you please provide links to your resources?

posted August 11, 2011 12:09 AM            

In high school, I was on varsity playing football, I played since 7th grade but my attitude kept me on and off the field. I felt like a pawn and that they didn't give as suit about me or my future. But I was built like a ******* rock.

When i graduated, I got lazy gained some pounds and that frustration grew over something simple.

I think in the 12th house we blind ourselves to the planets there. We get frustrated and desperate to express the energy in some way. It becomes intense because of past repression.

It's like waking up while you are still asleep. Your body is awake but your mind is sleep and you are scared of the paralysis feeling so you try to move and can't.

It does feel confining and you can feel restricted by childish fears, addictions, daydreaming and living in the past. Some people know how to work this 12th house energy to a place without bounds, or some close themselves in with insecurities while watching the world from inside.

Finding outlets and expressions for our boundless hopes for planets here(mine is in mars)is real helpful and key to our happiness.

Me I have a 12th house mars and I love lifting weights and running and the days I don't do it I feel frustrated and angry my body is important to me and so is staying fit.

To wrap things up, we are sensitive to what we don't show nor ask for but need. The confinement comes when we live behind 12th house fears and fantasies instead of 12th house transcendence.

posted August 11, 2011 02:09 AM            

To quote Marjorie Orr 'Without a birth time it's not easy to spot psychological issues which generally focus on the 8th or 12th houses. Hidden planets are either 8th or 12th house so their energy is lived out in a rather under stated or secret way, sometimes without the knowledge or control of the person themselves.'

Jupiter in the 12th gave him an inner peace and calm

posted August 11, 2011 01:19 PM            

go to tab near top chart
then click on new
enter details
submit
A4
save onto your computer
browse and open file then chose
view, interpretation, planets in houses, tropical

There is a tutorial on how to use the website but it really is straightforward if you are prepared to put the time in and you cannot get to the planets in houses unless you enter someone's details or look at one on their database.

posted August 11, 2011 02:02 PM            

Pluto in the 12th can indicate a deep karmic debt which must be dealt with before avenues can open in life. Even if it is not karma-related, there may well be a black hole somewhere in the psyche, which MUST be found, explored and released. This may not be easy, because it may be extremely deep and hidden in the person's subconscious. However, it may hold the key to unlock the potentialities of the whole chart, and lead to a complete metamorphosis, as in the phoenix reborn from its ashes.

Pluto in the 12th is an excellent position for spiritual seeking, self exploration as in ISIS. Whether power has been abused or not in past lives, the position in the 12th indicates that in this one, the Pluto power is to be used for spiritual regeneration.

Pluto in general tends to operate in conjunction with profound instinctual values; thus Pluto in the 12th can denote an ability to use the underground power of the lower chakras for spiritual purposes. It can be a highly 'alchemical' position - bringing light into matter and carrying the Grail transformation to its climax.

Pluto in the 12th also suggests episodes of 'dark night of the soul' , as in St John of the Cross. Gaining power and purity from facing the darkest depths of oneself.

Believe it or not, it is actually an excellent position to become a saint!

posted August 11, 2011 03:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DayandNight21:
But the mark of a success is usually someone who stands out from the crowd and can think out of the box.

---

"It's very nice, I like.."

posted August 12, 2011 12:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DayandNight21:
12th house - independent souls From: Marjorie. (06 Jan 2011 13:30):

This is taken from Marjorie Orr's website star4cast.com

The 12th house was very badly written up in the old astrology texts with gloomy murmurings about prisons, mental asylums, monasteries and the like.
Gauquelin who did the statistical surveys of birth charts found that the 12th and 9th were the strongest houses for successful activity.
Evidently Dane Rudhyar said that the twelfth house is the one house that represents not just the unconscious, but the essential person who does not take his identity from relationships or family, career or friends. One significant trait he thought of the persons born with Sun in the 12th is that they are not easily influenced by other people and will stay committed to their own convictions. If early childhood experiences have squashed the person's self-confidence, they will withdraw inside himself and become introverted or shy.
That kind of makes sense to me since it is thought that the 12th house does represent to some degree what happened during the mother's pregnancy. A 12th house Sun suggests a personality formed early in utero and somehow with less input from the mother so better able to stand on their own two feet outside conventional norms. Some may be hippies for this reason tho' I've never heard that about 12th house Suns. But the mark of a success is usually someone who stands out from the crowd and can think out of the box.

---

posted August 12, 2011 04:37 PM            

"When Jupiter is in the 12th house it is usually expressed as a full imagination, and yearning towards some kind of spiritual goal. They enjoy exploring the inner world of solitude, alones and privacy. Jupiter is traditionally at home in the 12th house and expands the unlimited realm of the unconscious, and so there is need for growth, and social activity in the sphere of ‘selfless-service. These individuals dream of a better future, and there is a broadness and expansiveness of their spiritual acceptance, but some astrologers have equated this placement with an unhealthy amount of faith in God. . From time to time there are lofty and unrealistic expectations for the collective that are ungrounded and they may expect too much.

Jupiter here is searching for the meaning and purpose behind every experience, and they are usually good at seeing the larger patterns behind life. There is a deep faith in the benevolence and significance of life. Jupiter in the 12th house individuals are opened to something greater than themselves through music, art, poetry. A 12th house Jupiter represents an inner sense of generosity, blessing optimism and enthusiasm for the future, and this placement frequently signifies somebody who benefits all forms of charity work. Many will find fulfilment working in places of confinement – hospitals, prisons, and places of healing, or sometimes is it through charitable organisations and education.

The twelfth house is the house of sacrifice, and often planets here are motivated to act for the wider collective, and to offer something beyond them. Selfless giving inspires them and altruistic love through sacrifice and charity work is what gives them a sense of meaning. Some believe that service will lead them towards god, but there can also be personal gains through service work, as long as there is some discrimination applied, otherwise there is the danger of being swept away by their beliefs, and they are inclined to give too much. The traits for self-undoing which are always found with any planet in the 12th house may be a secret need to gamble, overindulge in alcohol or drugs, manic behaviour, or hypocrisy.

A sense of inner faith can become a great inspiration for others that help them to keep moving forward in life. The placement of Jupiter in the 12th house is also believed to attract inner allies to help them along the way, and many feel a large sense of protection from some unseen hand, by some kind of spiritual guide or secret guardian angel helping them along the way. It believed that some form of help always arrives just on time and when things seem hopeless and bleak for the individual. Jupiter here seeks to grow inwardly, and this placement is linked to prophetic dreams, psychic visions, and they often enjoy exploring the imaginable realm of dreams and symbols."